Joining a hostile team that just attacks a neutral because they are slow to respond is NOT what one should do.
And to be annoyed with the victim of a crime simply displays more of one’s questionable judgement.
Neutrals beware what bedfellows you choose!
And Celebion, if you are not in the game please post on more appropriate forums.
I will post where I please unless you plan to stop me in some fashion.
Given your double-dealing FA history, you have no moral ground to criticize anything anyone does in FA, IMO.
Socrates,
Who are you, just out of interest?
It strikes me that most people posting to this forum have identified themselves (or, at least, their nations).
I’d be interested in knowing from what perspective you are rubbishing the DS. Are you a member of the Free Peoples, are you on the Neutral Team, or are you an Independent Neutral?
Just wondering…
Ian K.
Koxvelder
Iron Hills
Seems to be the mistake of DS from the start. Wondering and acting out of fear and confusion.
You have already done the math according to your last long…long and pointless rationale attempting to explain why you attack a neutral willing to negotiate.
Celebion, welcome come hither in your role as spoiler and peanut gallerina. As to your defaming comments expect a one on one message very soon mister or miss. For I expect an explanation to your insult. Are we back in grammar school? Please…
And I welcome any vehicle by which you wish to back your words! (Consider your face struck with my gauntlet)
If you only had a shred of a clue you would know I am a friend…and enemy through thick and thin. But let us not bother others with your personal issues. There are professionals you can speak to about that.
But to not put off players that are actually paying for the honor, I will continue with you later.
As for declaring to DS my nations id…do the math you allude to. (Your point was taken, I did not mean underhanded insult and will control myself from now on)
I have revealed myself to all neutrals, and now after your crime to the freeps. All honorable parties in my book.
If your team is so smart in rooting out the villain then you already know what nation I play.
Otherwise you have revealed your ignorance and let the others absorb this fact for once.
I will not be drawn into an exchange of insults with you, but I will not pretend to find your teams behavior even close to acceptable. In fact I find it distasteful and abhorrent. My time is much too precious to spend with the likes of the DS. If you think the independant neutrals gullible enough to buy your rhetoric then by all means keep talking smack but i will refrain thank you.
From now on I will only be hearing DS terms of surrender.
The DS rubbish themselves by their actions.
Save your last shred of honor and give poor Bob a break.
Or do you simply enjoy beating up on lone neutrals?
<sigh>
I think the point here is that Bob was not actually a “neutral” but was rather a part of the “Third Alliance” that you were recruiting for some time ago.
Posted by Socrates: “I am looking for others interested in joining a 4th Age Neutral Alliance. This will be a five nation team that essentially serves as a ‘third alliance’. Anyone interested please give a shout.”
This third alliance thing isn’t actually very neutral at all - in fact, is no more neutral as far as the DS (or, presumably, the FPs?) are concerned than our enemies are. It’s just another opposing side.
Now I know, from having read your previous posts, that you like the human interaction in these games. Despite this, I’m surprised that you think that “poor Bob” has any more chance, setting up as part of a hostile team in the midst of enemies than any FP would have had (or, indeed, than any DS would have had had we set people up in the middle of FP territory). He’s just not neutral - he’s part of your opposing Third Alliance. The fact that he then tried to convince us that he could join us (extract below) was even more unimpressive.
Emailed by Venger: “As for when I can change alliance to DS I have until turn 12 but will declare sometime after turn 6. Everytime in 1650 i declared to a side as a nuetral before turn 6 I regretted it.”
I do find your repeated slurs about PDFs a bit offensive. I don’t think you actually know what you’re talking about, and yet you’re calling us (the DS team) cheats. I think it’s a bit of a shame that this sort of thing needs to be thrown around…
Ian K.
Iron Hills
Ok, after reading many postings of other games I am seeing a common thread.
People fabricate conspiracy theories in their head, and instead of substantiating it, and correcting their mistakes they run into a world of delusion.
Some just hate neutrals in general. Some just have a problem admitting they are wrong. Instead they think using a ton of words will win others over to their own lies.
Others have habit of insulting others and chiming in with faulty information.
Celebion do you blame me for the Danish cartoons also?
I have sent a private message to Celebion explaining I have no idea what he is talking about and I suspect he has me confused with someone else. of course after reading his postings and considering the character of who would write such things, I doubt if he plans to come on the level about it but cie la vie.
I apologize to all you paying customers that have been subjected to such posts, but I wanted to clear my name.
Who AM I? I Am that I Am!
I bleed with my friends and bleed out my enemies. I am a player of honor and integrity and if anyone says different we will have words.
I am Joe Aragon and my ancestors hail from the region of Aragon. I stand by my friends right or wrong and I crush my enemies under my boot. When I say I will do something. I stand by my word and expect others to do the same. I level with my peers and speak on the square.
I AM a member of the mentioned neutral team and proud of it. I am also proud to offer the freeps my nations services in coalition against DS imperialism.
I would rather throw my lot in with scoundrels and pirates than with your team.
I abhor what the DS has done, you are not worthy of either my allegience nor my fear. I am offering my services and cooperation to the FP’s.
Now if that was murky or the DS or celebion aka peanut gallery is still confused let me send you the universal gesture few can mistake. (No icon available at this time)
Any more questions, insults?
(In responce to your last post) You still have not proven Bob’s guilt, just that he is slow to respond.
This game is just a typical example of why the Grudge format is in nearly all ways superior to this particular standard format, and why Grudge should be the standard format. Have people sign up in groups of any size, but have them discuss things BEFORE they choose their regions, etc. Better is to have the sides draft regions, and leave Middle Earth Games out of that process. I’m sure that proponents of both formats exist, but there should be more options.
The main reason I’m in this game is because our previous Grudge Team could not find opposition for months, and many people got tired of waiting once we got an inquiry. Finding 12 people and finding an opposing 12-person team can be almost impossible in 4th age, and 1650 and 2950 are so utterly predictable.
This format is definitely better for those who like to hide behind a cloak of “neutrality,” be evasive in their negotiations, and build up while the other allegiances fight it out. There is a difference between answering E-mail late and stalling for time. Four neutrals were very upfront in their sharing of information with us (and we’ve reciprocated), and one was unwilling to share information without us asking him the same questions 3 or 4 times. Perhaps one of the other four neutrals we contacted is the “mole,” for the neutral team, and if so, we apologize.
While the person accused of cheating on the DS side is gone, one of the neutrals had not been telling us the truth. Had the team of 5 offered our team a truce on turn 1, rather than having 5 individual “independent” neutrals contact us, the situation may not have gotten to where it is now.
We have been contacted about attempts to diffuse the situation, which are under discussion right now. If the neutrals continue this rhetoric, this will not be possible.
As for myself, I’m considering all options, diplomatic and military. Our course of action will be decided by all 8 DS, however, not just Ian, Dan, or I. Anyway, if I wanted politics, I’d join a political party. I joined this game to play a war game.
Mike
Pinnaless Ear
Do you really think to separate WAR or POLITICS.
To belittle something by calling it a joke only displays your preconceptions.
This is a war game and you have just declared war. You have chosen 2 enemies to fight instead of one and this fight I welcome.
Now don your armor, prep your troops, and prepare to defend yourself.
I just prefer knowing who my enemies are before the game starts, and neutrals definitely take away a lot of the enjoyment of these games for me.
We’ve always had two enemies in this game, as have you. The only question was when the fighting would begin.
There are still those working to diffuse the situation, as well, I’m not completely opposed, myself, but I will not speak for my entire team.
Mike
I only recognize one enemy at this time. The Dark Servants by their own deeds have sealed this deal.
I also do not speak for my team, I can only speak for myself, but freep forces are now welcome to pass thru our realm. We will feed and care for your troops. I have agents at your disposal. My armies await freep instructions.
Only after the DS are destroyed, will I reconsider.
The freeps are welcome to contact my nation for upgrading effective immediately.
Did you really think you could toss diplomacy to the wind and succeed by bullying neutrals?
Diplomacy is based on trust, having 5 neutral nations claim to be independent when there are only 4 is a violation of trust. Our actions were a direct result of that.
The FP are welcome to talk to us, as well, if they’d like to hear the other side of the story.
Socrates is on the Neutral Alliance that cannot change. If the rest of you are fools to believe otherwise thats your choice. He has been trying to get a group of neutrals to win as neutrals for quite awhile. He enjoys the aspect of saying one thing and later doing another especially to the DS and Free who are ultimately his enemies but he chooses to use forked tongue diplomacy to mask his true intentions.
You have been forewarned.
Tuormo
Tuormo,
Socrates has already stated that he is on the team of 5 neutrals. Trying to get a neutral team to win seems like an interesting goal. Has it ever happened yet?
I personally believe that the neutrals best chance in winning a game in this format is for none of them to divulge their status (team vs. independent). If the FP and DS would allow them to build up, things would be much more in the favor of the neutrals.
Joining the FP to rid Middle Earth of us DS works right into the hands of the FP, as they could possibly convince some of the independent neutrals to work with them, tipping the scale in their favor.
The one 3-way game I played in back in the GSI days was probably highly atypical. We used a regional map that had come out before even Mulka’s map, and we drafted regions. Each side had a front against each other. There were 9 neutrals, and the 8-player FP and DS teams each had a kingdom. Everyone fought everyone, and there were no “alliances between teams.” I suspect that games like that are extremely rare, and communication between all sides is much more typical.
BTW, Turomo, are you in this particular game? I’m just curious,
Mike
Hey Tuormo, or steve’s sidekick rather.
This is great coming from someone that just dropped and left his team hanging without so much as a courtesy note. I know someone just waiting to get in another game with you to return the favor in like manner. He says you have no concept of teamplay but only for your own selfish concerns. this i saw confirmed in game 146.
But yes, if you bothered to read my diplo rather than Soc/bashing he would know I already have declared as a proud neutral.
This is not my popularity contest, for many passives find honesty offensive. Means little to me in the end.
But Steve thanks for getting a buddy to try and bash me also. I have never mislead anyone in this game, and when I say my sword belongs to another that is what I mean. I bled with Rollin as a DS because I gave my word I would…how is that sneaky? Sorry if that sword happens to cut you. Common courtesy and proper respect will assure your safety. This you have forfeited if you had it at all.
The point is that the DS have acted against a neutral on misdirected numbers so I am here to say here i am! I am on the team and am seeking to clear the mud.
But still ye think I serve to deceive? What more can I say to prove my honesty? Those with ears let them hear!
Deceptive minds will not recognize truth when it is before them.
But I hear hint that perhaps others of a less emotional approach than my own may actually cause reason to prevail, so I will not continue to bash DS tactics.
Now back to the mole known as Tuormo, or any other schmuck peon that wishes to insult my personal integrity with little grasp on facts please by all means contact me.
You have a bone to pick with Joe Aragon come forth. Or try to ruin a game your not even in if coward you be indeed.
what?
Dear Socrates,
<Plays the same retroactive post edit game as Socrates> Defend yourself, sir.
The Egyptians
Tuormo is a player I knew from game 146 when I tried to organize a grassroots neutral team from a 2 nation team. In that game I offered my sword to the DS and stayed true to that course to game end. If any doubt this ask the other players from 146. Tuormo ran a nation in the deep south that either went bankrupt due to poor play or just dropped due to lack of commitment. I managed to salvalge a couple of his pc’s when i realized this but his nation was belly up by then.
He appears to be a buddy of Celebion, another person out of game trying to bash me. My connection with him i have yet to figure out besides being Tuormo’s buddy. Which points to Tuormo as a mole on our team last game. Hmmm…
To any others, please let the other 24 players in this game have fun and if it is a grudge you have against me then by all means step up boy!
Let the wheat separate from the chaff.
I hear there is such a thing as grudge games for the envious likes of you. I guess i can fork out money for a game if lessons is what you seek.
Now please let the cash paying players of game 43 have their game in peace.
Sincerely, -Joe Aragon/aka Socrates
Dan,
Why is it misspelling is the most mature jab all day?
I have yet lied today but you just cannot see that can you?
Now I understand why Christ welcomed crucifixion.
Anything is preferable to speaking truth until you are blue in the face.
Neutrals, I have never lied nor deceived any one of you.
Freeps, well you know by now.
The DS made a perilous error and wish to direct attention to me instead.
Ok, I can see i am getting no where real quick here so I will stop writing.
Dear Socrates,
It is you, sir, who has erred.
The Egyptians
Again… devilishly reprehensible f***wit… sure, no problem. Cheater… not so much. I dropped on turn zero for what I thought was the good of all parties involved. I wasn’t thrown out of the game for cheating, as you are possibly alluding to.
Hacked? I, and I alone, signed into the open site moderated by the free. The allegiance as a whole had nothing to do with it. BTW, the technical term is “cracked”. Hacking is gaining illicet entry to delete, alter or destroy files. Cracking is gaining illecit entry to browse and/or copy. Niether term is applicable here, however. Believe me, if I were smart enough to do either, I would move to Nigeria and live high off the hog for the rest of my days.
Make whatever value judgements you care to. Please be sure to get your facts straight in the process.
Dennis,
Your point is noted. Recall that none of the rest of us wanted the information you found, and it nearly caused the FP to quit en masse.
Whatever people think of what happened, it’s behind all of us, and I won’t drag you back into the conversation any more.
Mike