I never said or implied that it was a “cheat”. Those were your words - so do you feel it is a cheat? Though if you feel you must declare on turn 0 then why play a neutral? (Does “early” mean turn 0?)
I didn’t insinuate that a nation has built a huge reserve of gold on the DS side - I stated it as fact. I went on to say that this does not violate game rules. It is a problem of code. A problem that the game moderators are in the process of correcting. Let me also say that building a huge gold reserve is also not a “cheat”. As long as the individual nation does it alone.
We lost the propaganda war. For some reason all the neutrals believed we were running away with the game. Not really sure how that happened.
The WK is not only surviving into turn 11 but he is more powerful now than ever. The DL finally lost his capital though his hidden pop center is still hidden and most likely a MT by now. There are more DS armies in Mirkwood than at any point in the game.
Not at all Thavius, dear. The neutral has the luxury of taking however long they wish to declare. That could be 0 turns or 100 turns, just before your team win the game so they come in as overall winners. Perhaps grudge games are more your thing?
And turn 0 is as early as it gets, lol. You were unlucky that I knew the WK very well from a previous game and knew him to be an excellent player, one I could work with very well. I also didn’t feel at all threatened by the Duns as he wasn’t looking to make an early declaration and all but guaranteed his neutrality.
EDIT: I wanted to play a neutral as I wished to build up my nation over a few turns. As chance would have it I got the ‘hot potatoe’ and decided to jump in with both feet…
If the Duns had gone Free things would be looking very different in the NW, but the huge agent support from Mordor and the number of dragons knocking about probably made that decision a no brainer for him.
Sorry you are feeling hard done by, but we’ve all been there before.
Oh and FYI more than one DS nation has huge cash reserves and has done since very early in the game … all within the OBN rulings and genuinely not distorted. I seem to remember that the markets went up a fair bit early in the game and we DS took advantage with lots of well timed sales, enough to continue the inflation of the market.
A neutral has the right to declare for whatever side they like, whenever they like. For Rhudaur, they need to declare asap if they want to join the DS… there’s pretty much no advantage to putting it off any length of time.
Obviously, plotting with your buddies to take a combination of aligned and neutral nations is totally unacceptable (e.g. each requesting the Duns, Rhu and WK), but apart from that I don’t see anything wrong with favoring a certain declaration. I remember one game where the Easterlings went FP on turn 0, just because the player thought it would be interesting to try.
People tend to forget that while means of communications has evolved, the game hasn’t changed much.
So before you wouldn’t get in contact with neutrals till turn 1 AND then you’d have to make plans/woe them.
Now the neutrals post their names and then 1 hour later you can start making plans with them and/or woe hem to your side.
So yes, it actually does violate the spirit of the game to declare on turn 0 (I mean to make the decision) if you do it because of the team you’re joining (like one mentioned he knew the WK from another game, because as the game was designed untill turn 1 you had no idea who you’d be joining!!!
So if you go free/DS because you want to try it, and not because of the team you’re joining, then you don’t break the spirit of the game.
But if you do it because of communication, then I think you’re breaking the spirit, as the game wasn’t designed for this to happen.
Besides, Rhudaur position doesn’t change a whole lot from waiting till turn 1 to declare, as the first turn is well spend by merging armies, making cav army, naming new commanders etc…
I don’t agree at all. I liked the cut of the jib of the FP players in the NW too, they were just unlucky that I think game balance is best served by a DS Rhudaur and that I knew the WK to be a top player.
You seem to be arguing against yourself here, but whatever really. I don’t actually agree with this either A DS Rhudaur from turn 0 can block FP armies all over the place, and with clever WK moves stop all of the starting hostile moves from Arthedain and Cardolan.
An FP Rhudaur from turn 0 can be duking it out on WK pop centres immediately whilst his armies move to block FP starting armies.
I’m disappointed that I didn’t get a good game. That’s all. I was looking forward to a struggle and an interesting game. I would be just as disappointed had I been on the DS team in this game.
I am dropping this game and I know there will be others drop as well. This game is over on turn 10 - and that is disappointing.
Others may or may not take over my position and continue. If the position continues it won’t be me. I did advise my team that this game is over.
I hope to meet all of you in a future game with the new code.
Another neutral-leaning outsider: Poppycock! The Dog and Dark giving their artifacts to the Cloud Lord is against the “spirit of the game”. Your first line was close - the program hasn’t changed much…the “game”, players experience of it, and thusly, how it’s played, has changed a very great deal. Neutrals and their behaviour are a very small part of this.
I love playing neutrals, whether I move on turn 1 or 7, and I prefer to diplome with them as an Allied player. But, it would appear that while people’s expectations of all other things in game (yahoogroup, planning, coordinated actions, artifact sharing, 948’s and 949’s, file sharing, etc…) have kept pace with technology, this “neutral” thing keeps tripping us all up over and over again. Shame, as I see the looming end of neutrals since this anti-neutral bickering happens every game it would appear. Neutrals, regardless of timing perception, are most certainly, intrinsic to the “spirit of the game”.
Then make “getting neutrals” part of your game plan, just like camping the misties, micromanaging the Arty race, etc. If you can run but you can’t kick, you can’t play football very well…you shouldn’t expect them to change the rules for you… Learn to kick~!
They’re not prealigned brother Gixxx. You had 2 weeks of diplomatic opportunity. Gotta take some responsibility and either conclude “I have to do this differently” or “I don’t want to do this, so I won’t” but it’s not the neutral’s fault. That’s the point Rhudaur and Keith and I are trying to make.
“Game Balance” is against the “spirit of the game”. The leader of a nation of self-interested men tossing his people into an uphill struggle against their better interests because their deaths and possible loss of power is “sporting”…???
Well, we can agree to disagree. Games get “destroyed” when the players quit, and the next game will follow when they don’t learn. 25 players, 5 neutrals, I have a hard time with your logic…
Ranking? VP’s? I play to both win and have fun. I’m quite happy to have 400 VP’s, I’m not picking nations based on their power…aren’t you in 82…??? BUT - if you get more neutrals, and thus outnumber the opposition more often than not, you will win more often than not. Real basic math, don’t impute personality into my logic here.
Rhudaur “unbalancing”?? Please, be serious…!! I’ve read above the DS have already blamed the “public relations” for the rest of the neutrals going FP. EXACTLY! PR isn’t making companies, micromanaging the arty race, subtly maximizing your order results… It’s a different skill. Learn to kick…or play a different game…! (they have “no neutral” games - aren’t you in 82…?? ;))
Give me a good game
Brother Gixxx - reach out and take it for yourself, nobody’s gonna “give” it to you…
It will be difficult finding that in an individual game. You have strong feelings about how the neutrals should behave, which is something that is not really under your control.
Between the neutrals and the random set of players on each team, individual games are a total crapshoot. If you want a solid game, 12v12 grudge is a much better option… but you already know that.
Yeah, I certainly understand. The only individual game I play in is the 1-week, and I’m not sure I’ll be joining the new one. I much prefer grudge games - better team play, less worry about drops/SS’d turns etc.
A DS Rhudaur from turn 0 can block FP armies all over the place, and with clever WK moves stop all of the starting hostile moves from Arthedain and Cardolan.
