ME One nation choices

Yes more that. The problem with waiting is that it then has a knock on
effect on other players waiting to set-up in a game. My (rough) estimate
for a 2950 game is with 5 players wanting only one nation that it would
take an additional 3 weeks to set-up that particular game. If then that
develops into players say only picking WW or Corsair for 2950 then
basically say goodbye to 1/4 of our player base for that game - that's bad
for us and you guys.

RD: The only way around this is for players to realise that they need to be a bit flexible. Some players are NEVER going to get to play WW whatever system you use. By all means keep putting WW as your first choice and hope you get lucky but if you want to be sure of getting a game, give some other choices too. Isn't playing the game more important than WHAT you play?

Not for some players - some players specifically only want certain nations. :slight_smile: Some guys will only play in variant games, some only in normal games, or in 1000 only.

RD: Here's an example of what I meant. Say you have a 2950 game ready to start, except nobody has picked up Rhun Easterlings.

*** How do I know that's the case? It takes until I have all 25 nations before I can organise the game efficiently. Sometimes I can roughly allocate nations.

You put it on the FS, you put it on the list, weeks roll by and still nobody wants it. Every fortnight that goes by, you are losing potential turnfees. So my suggestion is that after, say, four weeks, you offer an incentive of, say, 2 free turns to anyone who snaps it up. If this has the desired result - and I do understand it's an if not a certainty - the game starts and the turnfees start rolling in. Yes, for the first month you're only collecting 24 turnsfees instead of 25, but surely that is better than collecting zero turnfees from that game whilst waiting for Rhun to be picked up in the usual course of events?

*** In this specific example you are correct. Normally this would not happen though - it's a very rare event.

Clint

Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

Not for some players - some players specifically only want certain nations.
:slight_smile: Some guys will only play in variant games, some only in normal games,
or in 1000 only.

Maybe offering variants was opening up a big can of worms and you shouldn't
have done it.

On the other hand, it could be that we have some very selfish people out
there who used to throw the Monopoly board across the room when they were
little if they didn't get the shoe...

Gavin

It was the race-car.

Brad

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gavinwj" <gavinwj@compuserve.com>

On the other hand, it could be that we have some very selfish people out
there who used to throw the Monopoly board across the room when they were
little if they didn't get the shoe...

Gavin

The solution is obvious. PLAY 4TH AGE! You get your first choice every
time! :wink:

Seriously, though. In my opinion, the best solution is a combination of
solutions. Unfortunately, they will all make more work for MeGames,
(though I'm certain someone else would be willing to put in some time on
it if it were possible).

1. NATION HISTORIES:

  a) Track each person's nation history in their files as a simple table
of 1650 (1-25) and 2950 (1-25) nations. Each time they play a nation,
add one to the specific scenario/nation number.
  b) When setting up a game, MeGames uses a spreadsheet (which I could
probably make up, if desired) in which they input each player's
preferences, along with their nation histories. Any conflicts get
resolved by giving the contested nation to the player with the LOWEST
number of previous plays in that nation.
  c) This probably wouldn't go over well, and could be dropped, but you
could also possibly award any game setup nation history ties to the
player with MORE nation setup choices for the current game, as an
incentive.

2. POPULAR NATIONS WAITING LIST:

Keep a waiting list (on the website & in the frontsheet) that says how
many people are currently waiting for a specific nation. (These would be
those players who insist on playing only a particular nation, no matter
how long it takes to start a game.)
Someone wanting to sign up for a game as ONLY the 2950 WW might look at
the list, see nine others already waiting there, and decide that perhaps
another position might be better. They could still add their name to the
list, but knowing it would be a LONG time before game start, they could
make a better setup choice for the game they want to join now.
Note that this would almost certainly create exceptionally LONG waiting
lists for some positions, so I would suggest limiting such a waiting
list to players who haven't yet played that position.

3. REQUIRE 3+ NATION CHOICES:

Require everyone to submit multiple nation choices during game setup,
(except for someone entering the game from the above waiting list). If
they don't, you spit it back to them (in your normally polite way), and
tell them that they MUST submit 3+ choices.
To make matters easier for MeGames, perhaps you can also include a TABOO
choice. In other words, the player submits 3 choices of nations, and 1
nation that they would prefer NOT to play under any circumstances.
(Probably just hard-code the Rhun Easterling in here.)
(Alternatively, I like the "higher setup fee for fewer nation choices"
idea Clint put out.)

4. PLAY 4TH AGE:

It's EASY to get your first choice! :wink:
(Sorry, I just couldn't resist.)

None of the above solutions would be acceptable to some, but IMO, it
would make game setup a little more fair than allowing someone to force
their way into a more desirable position again and again by insisting
that they won't play anything else.

Mike Mulka

Okay just as things are calming down over the Nation situation I was wondering about the Council vote that you get at the end of a game.

I thought that to be fair you should only be able to get any votes that are put towards you if you vote yourself.

How does that sound?

Clint

Variants are fun, look at the word, they "add variety". Developing,
discussing, and testing the variants, famously Richard's WotR, have been
tremendously entertaining. I play variants all the time, I've played MEPBM
for 10 years, and variants are a part of what's kept me paying and playing
for the last 5.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 20:06 27/11/2003, Gavinwj wrote:

Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

> Not for some players - some players specifically only want certain nations.
> :slight_smile: Some guys will only play in variant games, some only in normal games,
> or in 1000 only.

Maybe offering variants was opening up a big can of worms and you shouldn't
have done it.

Not sure. The problem might be awareness, as your post has just reminded
me, about what they are and I've gone scrabbling to find the council.doc
for 67, which I'd not even opened. I've now sent it in, but don't know if
I'm within the 2 week deadline. I suspect others on the team may have also
overlooked it, but I don't want to send a reminder to the group (few of
whom read here I think) as it could look like canvassing. Maybe you could
send a reminder to DS 67 players?

I overlooked it I think, as sometimes people overlook stuff in the front
sheet - I just ignored it as part of the usual meaningless (VP, VC, highest
agent was Ji, highest mage was Elrond) blurb, which I did not want to read
(especially given the ignominy of defeat in this case!)

My own foolishness of course, but the point is, if I overlooked it, others
may well do the same. My suggestions, in order to improve the horse and
buggy (a clever rhetorical gem, which I shall remember btw) in order of
preference:

1) Send a separate plain text e-mail at the end of games, with Game XX
Council of the Wise as the subject line. This is far less likely to get
overlooked than attachments bundled with other attachments.

2) Send a reminder, one week before the deadline.

I'll be miffed if I've missed the deadline for 67, as, as you know, I have
been a great advocate of the Council. Sometimes though a game can last 2
years, so it's going to take you that long to get everyone fully aware. Of
course last week or so BOTH of my 2 nation games, 4 positions all ended at
once, didn't they! Like London busses.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 23:18 27/11/2003, Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

Okay just as things are calming down over the Nation situation I was
wondering about the Council vote that you get at the end of a game.

I thought that to be fair you should only be able to get any votes that are
put towards you if you vote yourself.

How does that sound?

>Okay just as things are calming down over the Nation situation I was
>wondering about the Council vote that you get at the end of a game.
>
>I thought that to be fair you should only be able to get any votes that

are

>put towards you if you vote yourself.
>
>How does that sound?

I don't agree with this. I suspect the level of participation is low enough
as it is, the problem I see with any player vote method. It's hard enough
getting turn reports from teammates "during" the game, I see even fewer
sending in something "after" the game. Is this the case?

One must motivate people. What does the vote do for the players? What do I
get if I vote?

Brad Brunet

···

At 23:18 27/11/2003, Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

This one slipped under my radar. What the hell are you guys on about...?

Gavin

Unusually for you, L, you missed the cynicism in my reply...

Gavin

Laurence G. Tilley wrote:

···

At 20:06 27/11/2003, Gavinwj wrote:

Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

Not for some players - some players specifically only want certain nations.
:slight_smile: Some guys will only play in variant games, some only in normal games,
or in 1000 only.

Maybe offering variants was opening up a big can of worms and you shouldn't
have done it.

Variants are fun, look at the word, they "add variety". Developing,
discussing, and testing the variants, famously Richard's WotR, have been
tremendously entertaining. I play variants all the time, I've played MEPBM
for 10 years, and variants are a part of what's kept me paying and playing
for the last 5.

mefacesmo.gif
   Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yup, see what I mean Clint. There is an awareness problem. It slipped
past me, and it's still slipping past Gavin. You'll need to firstly
explain what the Council Document is to all players (and repeat that
explanation periodically) and then you'll need to put some flashing lights
round it.

The Council (of the Wise) Document, Gavin, and anyone else, is the Player
Rating System voting form which you get currently bundled with the other
attachments in the end of game e-mail.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 09:44 28/11/2003, Gavinwj wrote:

This one slipped under my radar. What the hell are you guys on about...?

Perhaps the answer would be an online vote for finished games? Go to
the website fill in a pro-forma or poll type thing? Security could be
added to it as needed?

david murray

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Brad Brunet" <bbrunec296@r...>
wrote:

> >Okay just as things are calming down over the Nation situation I

was

> >wondering about the Council vote that you get at the end of a

game.

> >
> >I thought that to be fair you should only be able to get any

votes that

are
> >put towards you if you vote yourself.
> >
> >How does that sound?

I don't agree with this. I suspect the level of participation is

low enough

as it is, the problem I see with any player vote method. It's hard

enough

getting turn reports from teammates "during" the game, I see even

fewer

sending in something "after" the game. Is this the case?

One must motivate people. What does the vote do for the players?

What do I

···

> At 23:18 27/11/2003, Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:
get if I vote?

Brad Brunet

I see even fewer
sending in something "after" the game. Is this the case?

Yes

One must motivate people. What does the vote do for the players?

When the PRS is up it will have those who want to contribute have their names publicly announced as valued allies.

What do I get if I vote?

You get to be a part of the system promoting such. Like voting in the Real World... :slight_smile:
CLint

Why do it online? Not much else in the game is done on-line. We send out a form to fill in and send back (like a 1000 set-up). Thanks for the idea though.

Clint

···

Perhaps the answer would be an online vote for finished games? Go to
the website fill in a pro-forma or poll type thing? Security could be
added to it as needed?

david murray

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Brad Brunet" <bbrunec296@r...>
wrote:
> > At 23:18 27/11/2003, Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:
> > >Okay just as things are calming down over the Nation situation I
was
> > >wondering about the Council vote that you get at the end of a
game.
> > >
> > >I thought that to be fair you should only be able to get any
votes that
> are
> > >put towards you if you vote yourself.
> > >
> > >How does that sound?
>
> I don't agree with this. I suspect the level of participation is
low enough
> as it is, the problem I see with any player vote method. It's hard
enough
> getting turn reports from teammates "during" the game, I see even
fewer
> sending in something "after" the game. Is this the case?
>
> One must motivate people. What does the vote do for the players?
What do I
> get if I vote?
>
> Brad Brunet

Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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>What do I get if I vote?

You get to be a part of the system promoting such. Like voting in the

Real

World... :slight_smile:
CLint

How about a Free Setup after voting 10 times?

Brad Brunet

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Middle Earth PBM Games" <me@MiddleEarthGames.com>

>What do I get if I vote?

You get to encourage the kind of play you appreciate
most.

Dan

···

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/

Hello there - for the 1650 game taking set-ups right now I need a North Gondor player.

Any takers?

Clint

Sorry for the delay - email is playing up.

Turns and emails are getting out slowly and I'll work on getting them to continue to get out tonight.

Clint

Okay all the turns are out now - some I had to send from my own email address so please don't reply to that... :slight_smile:

Clint

Note there's no problem with us receiving emails and replying to them from this machine. Just the machine we send turns out and that should be sorted by tomorrow.

Clint

···

Okay all the turns are out now - some I had to send from my own email
address so please don't reply to that... :slight_smile: