randomization of artifact numbers

mepbmlist
#21

So, let me get this right, it's ok for an agent to kill an army
commander, and cause an entire army to disband anywhere on the map,
but it wouldn't be for a mage to stop recruitment for one turn at an
enemy pop center. I think this is a perfect example of what is wrong
with the usefulness of agents vs. other character classes.

Its not that easy for an agent to pick off army commanders and knock over an entire army turn after turn whereas this spell is a no brainer. Backup commanders, swapping troops and other clever play reduces the effectiveness of agents.

regards

#22

See my other post about suggesting that orders such as these require
the character to issue the order twice in a turn (eliminates the
scenario you're describing).

Kevin

> Pestilence doesn't seem to be that bad - it's proposed effects

are

> only for one turn, and remember there is a fair risk for the mage
> being in an enemy pop center.
The spell is insane! Urzahil sits on Minas Tirith and refuses

challange and casts this spell turn after turn. No freep agents will
be able to kill him due to the massive forts, he is knocking over
500HI/HC a turn!! Also it could be used to effectively lock down a
pop centre ready for an incoming army!

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Jeffries" <mark@m...> wrote:

#23

I'm not even sure how to respond to this one. It's a piece of cake
for a high ranked CL agent (or anyone else's for that matter) to
assassinate any army commander.

My comparison was the comparative effect of the two orders. In my
experience (on both sides of the fence) thousands of troops are lost
to agent actions.

Kevin

> So, let me get this right, it's ok for an agent to kill an army
> commander, and cause an entire army to disband anywhere on the

map,

> but it wouldn't be for a mage to stop recruitment for one turn at

an

> enemy pop center. I think this is a perfect example of what is

wrong

> with the usefulness of agents vs. other character classes.
Its not that easy for an agent to pick off army commanders and

knock over an entire army turn after turn whereas this spell is a no
brainer. Backup commanders, swapping troops and other clever play
reduces the effectiveness of agents.

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Jeffries" <mark@m...> wrote:

regards

#24

I think that what Mark tried to say is that your are powerless against mages. See in curses, its a CERTAIN kill. Thats another thing : If the mage has 100+ skill in a spell, he WILL succeed. Even a 80 CL agent can fail a Tarondor assassination. With mages there's no random factor.

    I think that if a spell such as pestil;ence were to exist, it HAD to be skill-dependent, like curses. For instance : "Pestilence will decrease the avaiable recruits in the PC in question in a number five times its executor's mage rank. " The creation then of pestilence squads could come to arise, so that 2 50 mages could stop a city. But thats two less mages prenticing for curses. The option makes it interesting....

        Rodrigo Maia

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Kevin Brown
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 3:46 PM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Spells

  I'm not even sure how to respond to this one. It's a piece of cake
  for a high ranked CL agent (or anyone else's for that matter) to
  assassinate any army commander.

  My comparison was the comparative effect of the two orders. In my
  experience (on both sides of the fence) thousands of troops are lost
  to agent actions.

  Kevin

  --- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Jeffries" <mark@m...> wrote:
  > > So, let me get this right, it's ok for an agent to kill an army
  > > commander, and cause an entire army to disband anywhere on the
  map,
  > > but it wouldn't be for a mage to stop recruitment for one turn at
  an
  > > enemy pop center. I think this is a perfect example of what is
  wrong
  > > with the usefulness of agents vs. other character classes.
  > Its not that easy for an agent to pick off army commanders and
  knock over an entire army turn after turn whereas this spell is a no
  brainer. Backup commanders, swapping troops and other clever play
  reduces the effectiveness of agents.
  >
  > regards

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#25

Teleport Company - This would make agent companies and
curse companies way TOO strong and imho really throw
the game balance out of wack.

Not if they were prohibited to refuse personal challenge....

Pestilence - Effects would need to be moderated a bit.
One mage being able to cause all of this damage would
be a bit much. I think it would need to be a mage
company.

I agree. it should be like a curse, dependent on the mage skill for damage. Nonetheless, i think it hurts ME as its a trademark of this world a place where magic is not dominant. As someone said, it'd be more D&D and less ME....

    Rodrigo Maia

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: John Choules
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: Spells

  I like this list with, of course, a few minor
  suggestions. :wink:

  Teleport Company - This would make agent companies and
  curse companies way TOO strong and imho really throw
  the game balance out of wack.

  Pestilence - Effects would need to be moderated a bit.
   One mage being able to cause all of this damage would
  be a bit much. I think it would need to be a mage
  company.

  Having a counter spell or oppossing spell would also
  be nice. ie: Takiing blessing and casting that on a
  pop center to increase production and recruitment.

  I'll leave the rest for others to pick apart. :slight_smile:

  JCC

  --- ulfang_the_easterling@yahoo.com wrote:

  >
  > --- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, ME Games Ltd
  > <me@M...> wrote:
  > > What spells would you guys like to see?
  > >
  >
  > 1. Pestilence. Addition to Curses Line. Causes
  > crops to fail and
  > disease sweeps city. Pop center the mage is
  > currently located in
  > cannot recruit any troops that turn. No effect if
  > mage is not
  > located in a pop center. Pop center must be a
  > different nation.
  >
  > 2. Teleport Company. Addition to Teleport Line. If
  > mage is company
  > leader, the entire company teleports with him.
  >
  > 3. Healing Ways. Change Major Heal and Greater Heal
  > to allow the
  > points added to exceed the characters full health
  > for the turn. At
  > the end of the turn, the health is reduced to full
  > health if still
  > over. This would give some protection against
  > Curses and be very
  > useful for challenges.
  >
  > 4. Darkness. Addition to Conjuring Way spells. An
  > unnatural
  > darkness covers the hex. Hard difficulty. Doubles
  > the movement cost
  > of the hex for any troop movement thru the hex that
  > turn.
  >
  > 5. New Lost List - Alchemy. Using different rare
  > substances, the
  > mage is able to create explosives and help his army
  > breach enemy
  > fortifications during the battle.
  > 1. Split Fortification. Easy difficulty.
  > Character must be with
  > army. Reduces the effectiveness of enemy
  > fortifications in the hex
  > by 10% for that battle only.
  > 2. Rend Fortification. Medium difficulty.
  > Character must be
  > with army. Reduces the effectiveness of enemy
  > fortification in the
  > hex by 25% for that battle only.
  > 3. Breach Fortification. Hard difficulty.
  > Character must be
  > with army. Reduces the effectiveness of enemy
  > fortifications in the
  > hex by 50% for that battle only.
  >
  > 6. Divine Characters with Company. Addition to
  > Divinations Spell
  > list. Hard difficulty. Required info: Company
  > Character ID.
  >
  >
  >
  >

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#26

I'm not even sure how to respond to this one. It's a piece of cake
for a high ranked CL agent (or anyone else's for that matter) to
assassinate any army commander.

If he is at the same hex as the army yes, but it takes skill to get an agent
at the same hex as a moving army (which is the scenario that makes
assassinations most effective) and if the army has a backup then all the
agent action did is cost the army owner 5k to replace the character.

My comparison was the comparative effect of the two orders. In my
experience (on both sides of the fence) thousands of troops are lost
to agent actions.

They can be sure, and im not directing this at you Kevin, but poor play on
the part of people controlling armies can make agents seem far more
effective. Add a backup to your 2000 troop army and agent actions against it
are looking considerably less scary.

You mentioned the mage may have to cast this spell twice to trigger the
effect, this is now starting to make the spell more reasonable however I
would still have concerns. I can see a pretty much unstoppable scenario for
the freeps steam rollering into mordor when they take the high ranking noldo
and sindar mages and cover all DS front line major towns and stop
recruitment there for 1-2 turns on abuot turn 3 or 4.

regards

#27

You mentioned the mage may have to cast this spell twice to trigger

the

effect, this is now starting to make the spell more reasonable

however I

would still have concerns. I can see a pretty much unstoppable

scenario for

the freeps steam rollering into mordor when they take the high

ranking noldo

and sindar mages and cover all DS front line major towns and stop
recruitment there for 1-2 turns on abuot turn 3 or 4.

Since it is described as a lost list spell, how exactly do the FP
have multiple mages with it by turn 3 or 4?

But the idea of limiting it like Curses to something like 5 troops
per mage point is a good one. Then you can make the decision to go
for Curse squads or Pestilence squads.

#28

Since it is described as a lost list spell, how exactly do the FP
have multiple mages with it by turn 3 or 4?

I hadnt seen it described as lost list, assuming its a hard spell, lost list
and requires casting twice for the effect its starting to sound more
plausible.

#29

I have concerns as well, and details would need to be "fleshed out"
by the programmers and testing, but I still think a lot could be done
to make the other character classes more important to the game (or
the agents less important). The unstoppable scenario you're
describing might mean that the other DS nations might have to step up
their recruiting to stop this kind of action (the FP don't have that
many high ranking mages). Also means if the FP mages are doing this,
they aren't doing something else - learning curses, locating
artifacts etc. Changes how the game is played (which I think is the
whole idea).

Kevin

You mentioned the mage may have to cast this spell twice to trigger

the

effect, this is now starting to make the spell more reasonable

however I

would still have concerns. I can see a pretty much unstoppable

scenario for

the freeps steam rollering into mordor when they take the high

ranking noldo

···

and sindar mages and cover all DS front line major towns and stop
recruitment there for 1-2 turns on abuot turn 3 or 4.

regards

#30

Even if the free were able to stop recruitment at the
front line DS pops, they would still need to overcome
the fortifications. However, "pestilence" as a spell
would be cool and reasonable as long as it's handled
well within the game.

JCC

···

--- Kevin Brown <mornhm@soltec.net> wrote:

I have concerns as well, and details would need to
be "fleshed out"
by the programmers and testing, but I still think a
lot could be done
to make the other character classes more important
to the game (or
the agents less important). The unstoppable scenario
you're
describing might mean that the other DS nations
might have to step up
their recruiting to stop this kind of action (the FP
don't have that
many high ranking mages). Also means if the FP mages
are doing this,
they aren't doing something else - learning curses,
locating
artifacts etc. Changes how the game is played (which
I think is the
whole idea).

Kevin
>
> You mentioned the mage may have to cast this spell
twice to trigger
the
> effect, this is now starting to make the spell
more reasonable
however I
> would still have concerns. I can see a pretty much
unstoppable
scenario for
> the freeps steam rollering into mordor when they
take the high
ranking noldo
> and sindar mages and cover all DS front line major
towns and stop
> recruitment there for 1-2 turns on abuot turn 3 or
4.
>
> regards

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#31

I have concerns as well, and details would need to be "fleshed out"
by the programmers and testing, but I still think a lot could be done
to make the other character classes more important to the game (or
the agents less important). The unstoppable scenario you're
describing might mean that the other DS nations might have to step up
their recruiting to stop this kind of action (the FP don't have that
many high ranking mages). Also means if the FP mages are doing this,
they aren't doing something else - learning curses, locating
artifacts etc. Changes how the game is played (which I think is the
whole idea).

I too would like to see mages have more options, its not that mages aren't
powerful, just that they only do locate or curse, it would be fun if they
had more diverse options (like pestilence :slight_smile: )