Greetings Warlords,
is someone interested in a 1650-game with determined neutrals?
Very often the neutral-split is killing the “indie”-games, so why not playing it without neutrals?
We could use the grudge-split!
Have Fun!
Gixxx
Funny you mentioned this – was talking to some others about just the way you mentioned or even a 10 vs 10 vs 5 – meaning a free for all – hell I would even play a neutral as would be freeps against everyone , evils agains everyone and neutrals against everyone !!
But I would be interested in the grudge split as you mentioned – one week turnarounds??
Hi there Mike,
we’ve tried with 4 neutrals to win a game, wasn’t allowed!
… but if the game will have the right setup …
Clint?
Personally I would prefer the WC-rules used for grudges.
I would prefer 2 wweks, cause I’m playing some other games and one as a captain.
Have Fun!
Gixxx
I would like to get in on a determined neutral game even as a neutral. Especially 1 week turn around…but hey I’m ADD,
-Christopher
I am sure Clint and Company can set it up on the 10 vs 10 vs 5 – when you tried with 4 neutrals – was it a regular game – that is reason why , but am almost sure they can do a set-u the way you want !!
Have to be a 1 week game. The 2 week is less than 1/2 filled after 2.5 months and if this 1 week ends…AND it’s all the Neutrals fault…well…
It was a regular game!
10 vs 10 vs 5, there’s the possibility of playing two parties against one and that’s the thing I would like prevent!
Have Fun!
Gixxx
In the most cases you’re right Brad and I’m pretty sure this time too!
Have Fun!
Gixxx
So are we to have a game 10 v 10 v 5. Does this mean the Neutrals will be a third team? Clint can we do this? The bean counters need to see if that is plausable. The neutrals are very strong and could they stand as an alliance? That would really be an interesting game. Well count me in as to whatever you crazy buggers come up with. I would prefer a one week game. Althought they have collasped quickly lately I enjoy the hectic pace and it seems to keep the blood pumping. I only hate it when you have poor players in the mix as it isn’t for the faint at heart and that seems to be one of the problems.
[i]Hi there Mike,
we’ve tried with 4 neutrals to win a game, wasn’t allowed!
… but if the game will have the right setup …[/i]
It’s been brought up before. I’ve been asked to do this “secretly”, letting in 5 neutrals into a game. Like when this was raised in 1000 my opinion here is that such a game is fun for the 5 neutrals, dire for the other 20 players and would cause a LOT of resentment.
However, if players wanted to and can get 25 players for a 10v10v5 (I assume you mean 1650) that would be okay with us. We’d have to hand-moderate the victory elements but that would be okay with us. So get together, get 12 or so players (I’d suggest allowing 2 nations per player as this is a variant and you might find it hard to get 25 players together).
Clint
I would be up for this. So just so Understand now, There would be three alliances instead of two? Explain this in detail for us fence sitters.
Hi there Clint,
the main reason for posting this stuff was to get a more outbalanced game.
I fully agree that a 5 players neutral-part won’t help!
You’ll always have the possibility that one party will play with one of the others.
… and the split will much uglier than in game 87!
I would like to suggest that we use the WC-split for grudges!
So what do you think?
Have Fun!
Gixxx
Would mainly be the freeps against the evils and neutrals , the neutrals against the evils and freeps and the evils against the freeps and neutrals , seen someone said something about having one side work with another – well can add a clause like the Gunboats games – and make it no contact with another side but your own , so this takes two sides working against the other out !!
Since 1650 is well known, for something new and perhaps better balanced, what about redistributing nations? Have a 12-on-12 game and have each side choose 12 nations (the 25th is discarded). Some potential ways:
a) Choose team captains and they have a draft - snake order so either 1, 2-3, 4, 5… or 1, 2-3, 4-5, 6-7…
b) Have each side submit a list in order of preference. If a team cannot decide, worst case would be to have each player submit a list and compile the order based on votes.
c) Assign each player a number (alternating by side, again can snake order) and nation is chosen when the number comes up. This would work best if everyone has two nations, therefore 1st would also pick 24th while 12th would pick 13th. This would somewhat balance things, as players in the middle could choose symbiotic nations.
I would also suggest that artifact numbers be randomized - there are pros and cons of this.
Would people be interested in such a game?
12v12 format is one that definitely works, is very balanced and lots of fun without the elements of having neutrals. If you guys want one of those I can do it. But I’ve tried before, I probably need to have it that you can start with upto 2 nations each side I suspect. Do you want me do to that?
Draft game - we did one of these before. It worked okay and there was some play to it. The biggest problem is picking 2 captains.
As with any variant game, ideas are great and usually get implemented in one form or another, but ideally I’m looking for players who want to play that variant format.
Clint
Clint,
The way I would suggest doing the draft is as follows (6 on 6, 2 nations per person, can be 1 week or 2):
First, choose a captain for each side. Can be random among qualified people, or you can pick them based on experience and communicativeness. Both captains submit a ranked 25 nation list.
Players are randomly assigned a draft order, which snakes (e.g. 1 and 24, 2 and 23, etc.).
When a players pick comes up, the player is notified by email and a post on the message board - there is a list of the picks so far - they have 24 hours to submit a pick.
If the player does not submit a pick by the deadline, the captain chooses for him (players are free to notify the captain of their preferences prior, in case they are traveling, whatever).
If the captain does not submit a pick, then a pick is taken from the list of 25 that the captain has submitted (hopefully never used, but a fallback in case the captain flakes as well).
Final unpicked nation is unused. Something must be done about dragons (removed, significantly reduced in frequency or recruiting randomized… whatever can be done to balance this aspect of the game).
If you run it, I’ll sign up… would need 11 more. 
Why not just use the pairings of the Gunboat games which is setup as 12 vs 12? Someone (Clint maybe?) has already gone through them and made a decent decision of which nations as a pairing are reasonable. Why go through picking captains and then slowly choosing who wants what?
For instance, the Dragon Lord has a steady source of income from the Corsair and plenty of potential backup capitals to choose from. You really want the Noldo? Then deal with Harad and its unfortified towns with enemies at the gate.
The only difference is in not giving Rhudaur and Northmen the added defenses and the Cloud Lord a variance in pop centers. Those should not be needed in a communicative team game.
Point 1 - Standard 12v12 the Corsairs are FP.
Point 2 - there will be no changes to the code, ie dragon encounters, randomized artifacts. Those are in the long standing wish list basket that simply won’t happen.
If you’re looking for a 2 nation/player game then it’s 2 captains and 10 draftee’s. Clint and the Captains make the teams then the 6 man teams simply have 2 weeks before turn 1 to sort out all the rest of the business necessary - picking nations through to submitting orders.
The other option for a 12 V 12 is the neutral pick off. Toss a coin to see who picks what nneutral first, then the other team picks a neutral, and so on discarding the nation not picked… now there’s a nutty idea. All nations start neutral. Captians pick one nation each round, discard the unpicked have at each other. Cloud Lord supporting North Gondor against South Gondor And The Eothrain with the Ice King lending support… Arthy and Cardy bashing away at each other my my the hours of thought just to make the next nation selection…
Herman
Ahh crud just seen the other post…someone beat me to the idea… kind of.
Herman