2nd Edition of 1650 mepbm

mepbmlist
#1

If you start tweaking the transport orders then you must also reform the
market, after all having an open market which will sell anything to anyone,
convert lembas to beef and ponies to wargs?

If however you accept the existence of the market (and
moneylenders/bankers) then it justifies the transport orders.
A simple explanation of what I mean (and I know it's not perfect, so don't
bother trying to point it out).
Lets say in the modern world someone wants to give some money to a relative
the opposite side of the world. one way would be to visit your bank, pay
some money into you account, have the bank transfer the money from your
account to your relative's account (for which they will charge a fee) and
your relative withdraws they money at their end. Hey presto you have send
them some money, OK you could have employed a courier to physically
transport the money, but why do it the hard way?
Translated into Middle Earth terms, electronic transfer becomes carrier
pigeon or similar (maybe even magic as they can polymorph mounts etc.) and
the fee is 10%.
As everyone can trade with the market from any pop, then the "market" must
have warehouses all over the place, and goods could therefore be sent in a
similar method.

Really, this discussion isn't about "2nd Edition 1650 MEPBM", after all, if
the rulebook is to be believed we are already on 7th Edition, It is about
creating an entirely new game which could be described to be "A simulation
of warfare and economics in a world based upon ICE's version of Tolkien's
Middle Earth".

OK the game isn't perfect, and there could certainly be a few tweaks made
to improve gameplay (too many changes and it ceases to be the same game),
but lets face it, it's a fantasy game, and personally I like a game which
has a reasonable amount of depth, has the opportunity to employ stratagy,
but doesn't require a rulebook 3 foot thick:)

The thing to ask yourself is "Do I enjoy playing the Game?". If the answer
is no then I suggest you find a game which you can enjoy. If the answer is
yes then why make such drastic changes? The grass is rarely greener on the
other side.....

I just thought I'd seen so many change this and change that messages, that
someone had to put in a counterpoint to it:)

Nick.

#2

TO Mr Barnes the refers to the edition of the rule book. As GSI found
minor errata they would create a new edition of the book. As for the
software. Outside of a few tweeks and minor setup changes, the program
is the same as it was 10 years ago.

Most of my discussion on the 2nd edition has been to add reality to
the game. Make the races seem like the races they represent and to fix
some game mechanic errors that were put into place for simplistic reasons.

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Nick Barnes <mearth@n...> wrote:

If you start tweaking the transport orders then you must also reform the
market, after all having an open market which will sell anything to

anyone,

convert lembas to beef and ponies to wargs?

If however you accept the existence of the market (and
moneylenders/bankers) then it justifies the transport orders.
A simple explanation of what I mean (and I know it's not perfect, so

don't

bother trying to point it out).
Lets say in the modern world someone wants to give some money to a

relative

the opposite side of the world. one way would be to visit your bank, pay
some money into you account, have the bank transfer the money from your
account to your relative's account (for which they will charge a

fee) and

your relative withdraws they money at their end. Hey presto you have

send

them some money, OK you could have employed a courier to physically
transport the money, but why do it the hard way?
Translated into Middle Earth terms, electronic transfer becomes carrier
pigeon or similar (maybe even magic as they can polymorph mounts

etc.) and

the fee is 10%.
As everyone can trade with the market from any pop, then the

"market" must

have warehouses all over the place, and goods could therefore be

sent in a

similar method.

Really, this discussion isn't about "2nd Edition 1650 MEPBM", after

all, if

the rulebook is to be believed we are already on 7th Edition, It is

about

creating an entirely new game which could be described to be "A

simulation

of warfare and economics in a world based upon ICE's version of

Tolkien's

Middle Earth".

OK the game isn't perfect, and there could certainly be a few tweaks

made

to improve gameplay (too many changes and it ceases to be the same

game),

but lets face it, it's a fantasy game, and personally I like a game

which

has a reasonable amount of depth, has the opportunity to employ

stratagy,

but doesn't require a rulebook 3 foot thick:)

The thing to ask yourself is "Do I enjoy playing the Game?". If the

answer

is no then I suggest you find a game which you can enjoy. If the

answer is

yes then why make such drastic changes? The grass is rarely greener

on the

other side.....

I just thought I'd seen so many change this and change that

messages, that

···

someone had to put in a counterpoint to it:)

Nick.

#3

If however you accept the existence of the market (and
moneylenders/bankers) then it justifies the transport orders.
A simple explanation of what I mean (and I know it's not perfect, so don't
bother trying to point it out).
Lets say in the modern world someone wants to give some money to a relative
the opposite side of the world. one way would be to visit your bank, pay
some money into you account, have the bank transfer the money from your
account to your relative's account (for which they will charge a fee) and
your relative withdraws they money at their end. Hey presto you have send
them some money, OK you could have employed a courier to physically
transport the money, but why do it the hard way?
Translated into Middle Earth terms, electronic transfer becomes carrier
pigeon or similar (maybe even magic as they can polymorph mounts etc.) and
the fee is 10%.
As everyone can trade with the market from any pop, then the "market" must
have warehouses all over the place, and goods could therefore be sent in a
similar method.

But it's about consistency. The Venetians, I believe invented banking
and credit transfers, and large empires of earlier times had rapid
transports systems which were possible _because_ of the Pax. But
Tolkien's Middle Earth is a pseudo-mediaeval realm. The nations are
scattered, and there is a wilderness between them. The pop scatter of
MEPBM does actually get this right, as is evidenced when you see a
newbie talking about "my territory", and needing to have his ideas of
national boundaries broken. The caravans at present are inconsistent
with the other laws of physics which operate in the game - that is why
they are ripe for revision.

Really, this discussion isn't about "2nd Edition 1650 MEPBM", after all, if
the rulebook is to be believed we are already on 7th Edition, It is about
creating an entirely new game which could be described to be "A simulation
of warfare and economics in a world based upon ICE's version of Tolkien's
Middle Earth".

Now you're getting rather extreme here. Nobody has said that an
improved game needs to be highly realistic, just that some things could
be reasonably changed, and become _more_ realistic.

Don't get overwhelmed by the volume of the suggestions. Nobody is
suggesting that dozens of changes should (or ever would) be made. BUT
just a cherry picked handful of the ideas voiced in the last couple of
days, could give a more consistent world. Actually, it is also
interesting that MOST of the people to have put forward ideas, show that
they understand the importance of maintaining balance, and limiting or
even reducing the complexity of the game.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

···

Nick Barnes <mearth@nidome.co.uk> wrote