a little respect here, or go play Quake

D_N · April 11, 2002, 1:12am

Sorry, Chris, but Mr Corsairs 101 has been neither
rational nor fair. There's no call on this list to be
rude:

"They wanted incentive for people to do Harley's job

for them....they added a new fee for those that don't
feel like
doing
Harley's job for them.... This is a heap load of B.S."

He's mocked ME-PBM's presumed desire to make their
work more satisfying -- ignoring that happy GM's are a
good thing -- and has responded with personal attacks
on this list. Not called for.

We don't know anyone else's motives, but I suspect
Gavin is right that regardless, the announcement would
be more palatable in the reverse order, like this:

- ME-PBM is increasing its fees 15%. This isn't a
yearly increase, and it puts costs actually below what
I paid to GSI nine years ago, adjusted for inflation.

- and hey! They've joined the modern world and instead
of retyping orders, they've found a way to automate
it. Since that takes them less work, it should cost
less, and it does -- they're passing the savings on to
you.

One turn still costs less than a movie; if you don't
want to play, that's your choice, but please, no more
rudeness on this list.

Dan

···

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Laurence_G_Tilley · April 11, 2002, 8:16am

Sorry, Chris, but Mr Corsairs 101 has been neither
rational nor fair. There's no call on this list to be
rude:

I didn't think he was very much ruder than the situation warranted. I'll sign up behind Chis as the second member of the Anonymous One's fan club.

We don't know anyone else's motives, but I suspect
Gavin is right that regardless, the announcement would
be more palatable in the reverse order, like this:

- ME-PBM is increasing its fees 15%. This isn't a
yearly increase, and it puts costs actually below what
I paid to GSI nine years ago, adjusted for inflation.

- and hey! They've joined the modern world and instead
of retyping orders, they've found a way to automate
it. Since that takes them less work, it should cost
less, and it does -- they're passing the savings on to
you.

You are a Child of Blair. The above is an absolute classic spin, and as such is insulting to most intelligent people. The fact that you have structured it slightly better and made it a tad more cheerful in tone, does not make it more honest. If you unspin it you get:

We are putting the price up substantially
We are launching automated systems.
If you use the automated systems we will charge you the same.
From players not using the systems we will take more money for the same work.
From players using the systems we will take the same money for less work.

Which is more or less what Corsairs-Wun-Oh-Wun the Mighty said when he spoke to us all from the other realm. Admittedly he was a little miffed in tone.

One turn still costs less than a movie;

Did you bother to read what I wrote about assessing value for money in terms of entertainment received or work done? It seems not. So what if it's less than a "movie", it's more than I pay for three and a half hours on line, an awful lot of TV watching, a good novel, or an infinite amount of library books. The issue is about wether or not we are being charged a fair amount by a company which now has a monopoly on the supply of the game. So telling people (who are probably much less able to find 3.90 than you) to "go and play Quake" is little more than fatuous. It doesn't use rude words, but it is actually much more offensive than anything Wun-Oh-Wun said.

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

···

At 02:12 AM 11-04-02, Dan Newman wrote:

Chris_Courtiour · April 11, 2002, 4:02pm

Hi Dan,

Sure, he used mild swear words, which it is up to the group moderator
to deal with if it is causing offence. He also made various
accusations as to Clint's motives which both Clint and numerous other
players have strongly countered on the list. I doubt anyone,
including the Corsairs 101, now believes this is about sacking
people. A victory for debate.

The Corsairs 101 states that Automagic means ME games will receive
the same money for less work, some of which the players themselves
will now have to carry out. This is an unarguable fact. He thinks
that, given no particular change in circumstance, this is not fair
and, as requested by ME Games, has let them know how he feels. Seems
eminently rational to me. Of course there are reasons why ME games
believe they should do this which have been put forward by them and
many others with the consensus seeming to be that a they are
justified in doing so. The Corsairs 101 dissents. If I misrepresent
any one here, I apologise.

Perhaps I have missed something (very possible) but I have not seen
any personal attacks on other posters? Whilst he has been agressive
with Clint, angry customers come with the territory and Clint is more
than able to look after himself. Personally, I think describing
others who have different points of view as 'whining schmucks',
ridiculing their writing or telling people they are not wanted on the
list when they have broken no rules is, intentionally or
unintentionally, far ruder than anything the Corsairs 101 has come
out with (I am not accusing you of any of this, Dan, just making a
point).

Regards
Chris Courtiour

The Corsairs 101 was vociferous and ag
--- In mepbmlist@y..., D Newman <nanooknw@y...> wrote:

···

Sorry, Chris, but Mr Corsairs 101 has been neither
rational nor fair. There's no call on this list to be
rude:

>"They wanted incentive for people to do Harley's job
for them....they added a new fee for those that don't
feel like
doing
Harley's job for them.... This is a heap load of B.S."

He's mocked ME-PBM's presumed desire to make their
work more satisfying -- ignoring that happy GM's are a
good thing -- and has responded with personal attacks
on this list. Not called for.

We don't know anyone else's motives, but I suspect
Gavin is right that regardless, the announcement would
be more palatable in the reverse order, like this:

- ME-PBM is increasing its fees 15%. This isn't a
yearly increase, and it puts costs actually below what
I paid to GSI nine years ago, adjusted for inflation.

- and hey! They've joined the modern world and instead
of retyping orders, they've found a way to automate
it. Since that takes them less work, it should cost
less, and it does -- they're passing the savings on to
you.

One turn still costs less than a movie; if you don't
want to play, that's your choice, but please, no more
rudeness on this list.

Dan

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

Symeon_Gavalas · April 12, 2002, 12:28am

Hi,

I think there is an old joke about two guys looking at a glass half-
filled with water and arguing whereether it is half-empty or half-
full.
It is simplistic, I know, but it's a good example of how two people
can talk about the same think but have a completely different idea
of what it means.

We are putting the price up substantially
We are launching automated systems.
If you use the automated systems we will charge you the same.
From players not using the systems we will take more money for

the same work.

From players using the systems we will take the same money for

less work.

I don't see this as you do. The fact that I don't doesn't make me
less intelligent or a Child of Blair (whatever that means).
It doesn't mean that I'm right and you are wrong, it's just my way
of seeing things. I admit I'm surprised to find out that there are
actually people that don't-can't see things as I do but I've come to
terms with that.

I find this change good and fair and I choose to support it; you,
for your reasons, don't and maybe you will decide not to.
What ever criteria we use to classify something as "fair", "good"
or "value for money in terms of entertainment received or work done"
are subjective and certainly not absolute.

The Final point to all that is we make our decisions, based on that
criteria. Case closed, life goes on.

In the mean time it is generally acceptable that we try not to be
rude, aggressive etc(It's hard I admit, I'm guilty here too).

Regards

Symeon

Fierein · April 12, 2002, 12:49am

For some reason I cant post on the Messageboards.

I would just like to ask the DS in game 88 to lay off.. I am in severe need
of some kindness so I can actually survive ?

Thomas
Besieged Harad

Chris_Courtiour · April 12, 2002, 8:36am

Hi Thomas,

We wanted to be friends (honestly)but then you stopped replying. Now
the wheels of destruction are in motion it may be impossible to stop
them. As this weeks act of mercy, one trick is to declare and start
communicating alot.....

Chris Courtiour

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Grey Squirrel" <greysquirrel@b...> wrote:

For some reason I cant post on the Messageboards.

I would just like to ask the DS in game 88 to lay off.. I am in

severe need

···

of some kindness so I can actually survive ?

Thomas
Besieged Harad

Chris_Courtiour · April 12, 2002, 8:36am