Shaking things up a bit, for lazy Saturday morning consideration:
All Draft Game - remove Cloud Lord and the 2 team captains draft Nations one by one.
Even-Odd Game - Again, removing the Cloud Lord
1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23 vs 2,4,6,8,10,12,16,18,20,22,24,25*
And an Ask - How common are 10v10 game, remove all Neutrals?
Okay, the coffee’s ready…
Brad
me likey me likey…a draft? I think we could do a 12 v 12 though also…
dropping the cloud lord hmm…well wouldn’t that be a site though if he paired up w/ the elves?
why not just drop the Easterlings and go 12 v 12…
just a thought.
jz
wm 72
no 62
LL 42
Cloud Lord is the only nation that “sticks out” amongst the 25. Shuffling the deck, I removed the Joker. That’s all.
Oh, the first 2 games are 12v12, just no Cloud instead of Easterlings, again, JMO. The 10v10 thing was an Ask - how often does this happen? I could see value in such a game, there would appear to be reasonable balance there, excepting the Witch King.
Note right now we have a few variant games, we can’t get the Alliance game filled so I’m wary of starting a list for 25 (or 12 players).
Clint
No lists, just hypothetical.
But since you’re here, can you answer my question: how often (if ever) do 10 vs 10 No Neutral games ever run?
Signed,
Brad
The variant I would like to see would be the one with all those alien concepts I have been trying to explain for the past six years----and not doing a good job of explaining. To wit: ‘alliances’, ‘realpolitik’, ‘ambiguous environments’, ‘moral freewill’, ‘stealth/deception/ruses’, ‘psyops’ and ‘opsec’. You know, the original Stassun/Fields game.
And is the Allegiance game currently accepting set ups too far away from your poorly explained vision that it doesn’t qualify? Or is that yet to be seen?
But since you’re here, can you answer my question: how often (if ever) do 10 vs 10 No Neutral games ever run?
I’m always here… well mostly… 
I don’t know I don’t have easy access to that information. Sometimes would be the answer… 
Alliance game - we presently don’t have enough for it. We’ve emailed all our past players and although we’ve clearly got some interest it’s clearly not something that players want a lot of, they might try a one-off version of it, which we’re happy to support. Note if players want to play it all the time that’s very much fine with us. I don’t perceive that they do. I think I have a very clear view of what the Alliance game is though and it’s a good enough game to play.
Variants: there’s been a few proposed recently, our general method is that if you can easily get half the players we’ll do the work our end to get the other half.
Clint
Heh, feeling the assassinations a bit recently are you Brad? Maybe you just need to improve your play rather than make the game easier by removing much maligned Ji. :D:D:D
I don’t think 10vs10 is played very often, but I was in such a game, perhaps two years ago. And, IIRC, it was an excellent one. It would though, I fear, not appeal very much to those asking for ever less demanding versions of the game. With fewer pops and a smaller economy on a map with the same economic potential, you are talking about a much longer game with a slower build-up as most nations strive to make the best of the ex-neutral areas. It makes for serious game, but expect 30+ turns. I’d recommend it heartily, but only for grown-ups. :arr:
Cloudy can be, all things falling as the chips may, the nagging “unbalancing” aspect of a truly mixed up game. As a Dark Servant, of course, he’s necessary… And don’t take so much credit, as I opined to Tony, we thought Cloudy, in a recent game, was slow to start and weak while going… 
Yes, I considered the economic aspects. Very interesting concept of what might happen with 1650 nations “building” for as long as it takes to hit the camp limit with all those extra pops and only 20 nations vying for them instead of 25.
No, you don’t understand much about this game’s creators’ intent. Just two months ago you were anxious to remove the Random Victory Conditions. The term ‘tunnel vision’ comes to mind.
Um, I think we’ll have to agree to differ here Ed. I’ve promoted the Alliance game as requested, I do think I understand it. I even helped clarify the rules for it as it wasn’t clear and I think your intent was covered in the rules, so I helped tidy them up. I’m not interested in having a fight, like I said if you can get the players for the game that’s fine with me. Best of luck.
Merry Christmas… Nadolig Llawen.
Clint
Yes Ed, I think Clint is working with us to get this game going. We just need more players… we’ve been stuck at 16 for quite a while…
Where is Jeremy Richmond when we need him?
Dave
Draft game? Now that sounds like fun.
Which nation is the number 1 draft pick (assuming CL removed)? Noldo? Wking? DrkLts? SG? Interesting conversation in and of itself.
How does Angmar play out? How about Mordor? Do you go character heavy or economy?
I’d be down for this. Fun Fun Fun
Has to be the Noldo. But the #2 pick from the opposition is even more curious…I could see Arthedain…then Cardolan…then Rhudaur…then WK…then Dwarf…etc… in fact, I can see that game coming up now that I think of it - an Every Second Nation game - as few as possible “shared” Allegiance borders - everyone surrounded (kind of like a DS Rhudaur with an, ahem, able Witch King ally in a standard game…;))
Brad
Brad
Would agree that the Noldo would very likely be the 1st pick if CL are removed. [Not sure if the latter are actually that decisive in such a game. Given their towns are very vulnerable in a divided Mordor].
Would love to have a go at a game like this but got too much on at the moment. However one question. Would it be better to make it a 1,4 v 2,3 choice. I.e. the 2nd team gets to choice the 2nd and 3rd nation then the 1st team picks the 4th nation. Otherwise the 2nd team is always getting 2nd choice.
Steve
Yeah, I considered that. Draft order should switch around with the 2nd team getting 2 in a row at one point, but I wouldn’t put it at 2-3 - this could too easily suround the 1st choice. 1,3,6,8… and 2,4,5,7,9… or so.
Use a “snake draft” to give both teams 1 & 2 a fair shake:
1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 1, etc…
if it’s Columbian supreme get me a cup… I like my coffee rich with flavor.
Interesting Variant could even become popular becuase every game would be truly unique as In 1000 game…
But just removing the CL making it 12 v 12 is interesting… Though being on the Team that one with 4 to 1 split … I never seen anything unbalancing just more challengeing… I would also love to be on the Team that wins the 15 vs 10! I must be just a Big enough ass to make that come true…
Terry