BEAUTIFUL STUFF HERE! THANKS!
Glad to help.
Please get over the "Individual" EQUALS "Selfish and Greedy".
Please.
Get.
Over.
It.
Okay?
Only if you will get over the "Individual" EQUALS "Materialistic and Self-Interested."
I am neither selfish, nor greedy. I AM and individual. Just get over that silly
little childishly communisitic dumb little word substitution. Not just you,
Winn, but everyone with the whole issue with the Individuals are Selfish and
Greedy and Anti-Team, and therefore Totally and Completely Bad for ME!!!!
Sir, I never specifically called you greedy. I said that greedy play is not the same as role-playing. You, on the other hand, have specifically said that anyone who disagrees with your personal interpretation of victory points and Tolkein "has their logic screwed up and is most likely doing themselves a psychological disservice". I take issue with your implication that people who think that the current victory points system are flawed are "silly" "childish" "communistic" and "dumb". I strongly request that you confine your discussion to points under discussion and keep personal comments to yourself. At the risk of being childish again, If you can't say anything nice, dont say anything.
Please get over the Victory Condition vs Victory Points issue.
VP are big and important, and include pc's, gold, armies, and characters.
The VC's are silly things that get you bonuses. Not very big bonuses, either.
They MAY put you over the top if you and another SELFISH AND GREEDY player are
close, but that's it. Forget about them already!!!
It wasn't an issue for me. Character VP rewards nations who keep their characters out of dangerous situations, and are highly vulnerable to single bad dice rolls from assassinations. Armies reward nations with large armies intact, again best done by avoiding contact with the enemy. Having huge gold stockpiles not only indicates failure to assist teammates but also presents a nice large theft target to enemies. Not one of them really rewards the players who win the war by defeating the enemy (Pop centers comes closest, but can be done by quietly building far from the fight). I think in the course of my reply I had mentioned instances where the gold stockpiling, character points and most pop centers led to play which was not only anti-team, but anti-good roleplaying (such as the section on our differences of opinion on what was in the book). You merely chose to focus on the VCs because they make the least sense.
I think that they all encourage greedy play. Greedy in the sense of I'm going to keep all of my guys here at home while my allies fight the enemy. Not that everyone who wins is remotely guilty of this, but straight up that is what they encourage. That is what they reward. If you feel that having the biggest gold stockpile makes you the winner of the game, fine. I dont see the need to give the player with the most stuff in one game a cookie in the next one. And yes, as in game 26, when you have a team effort from a lot of players and the least helpful nation gets called the winner, that offends me.
Besides, I forget who it was, but someone with a sense of humour had already
taken care of the inane and odd VC's we see by saying hey, who knows who slept
with who's sister-in-law and when. We just have to assume that someone's cousin
is offended for some reason from however many years ago, and thus it would be
in Arthedain's best interest (from an internal political perspective, maybe?) for
Argirion to die.
One could do that. It seems like a fair stretch to me, but you can rationalize the bizarre VCs. The question is, why have them in the first place? Does it improve the game to focus your efforts on killing some random character on the other side of the map? Does it improve the game to swap out population centers because someone has a VC? If it is just a matter of wanting to have a winner, why not make the standards something that rewards good play?
Winn
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