Respect the opinons of all who have commented on the subject. My view is that agents are not all powerful and can be neutralized. You just don't play in the agents' ball park. The term assassinate is an unfortunate one and conjures up Admiral Yamamoto's airplane crashing and burning. Think of agents as special operations/special forces and things come into perspective, I think.
The Discovery Channel last week detailed the exploits of a SINGLE Americn Green Beret in Afganistan In a three day mission he killed 14 Afgans, destroyed a cave full of weapons (including three stinger missles), destroyed three hundred pounds of heroin and placed a tracking device on the truck of an Al Quida captain who was then killed by an American aircraft that homed in on the signal. Ji Indur is a sissy.
···
From: "David Clemmensen" <david_clemmensen@post.tele.dk>
Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: Article on Assassin
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:04:53 +0200Yes the agent pover of the DS is grate but if the is made enny Futher limitesion on it the DS will not stand a chance but will lose to the power of gold and numbers you might as well remuve dragons.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: kingoftherill
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 5:28 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Article on AssassinI have to disagree with Richard's line of thought. DS do not win the
majority of games because agents are so strong. The games in which
agents influence the outcome dramatically is because the Dark
Servants use their agents better, and the free do not.With proper diplomacy and cooperation between the free there is no
unsurmountable agent advantange given to the DS. I played in a game
recently which illustrated that. So did Bobbins, and Ovatha 88, among
others. We were the free. It does take a lot of coordination and work
but the free can neutralize the agent advantage of the DS.I don't see a need to change agent rules any more than they have been
changed from how they were originally written. What I see is a need
for people to think more and come up with ways to redress what are
perceived as national imbalances. The free have better economies,
better armies, better characters over all. The DS are more compact
for the most part, making it easier to coordinate, and have some
national advantages over the Free, but the neutrals have all the
advantages that the DS possess, so diplomacy is needed.In our recent game, we could deal with the enemy agents. They did not
strike terror in our hearts. We lost both the southern neutrals in
that game by the way. Thus losing our economic advantage.It is my opinion that the Free have just as much chance to win this
game with the rules as they are as the DS do. They have to work hard
at it but there is no built in advantage to either side. So again I
see no glaring imbalance that requires a change of the rules. The
rules are the rules, learn to work within them and to make them work
for you, don't lobby to have them changed to change the outcome of
games.American Brad
-- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Harlequin Games"
<harlequin.games@xxxx.xxxxx.xxxx wrote:
> >AGENTS ARE STILL OVER-POWERFUL
> >
> >I'm not saying this just because the Free characters in ME 10 are
getting
> >slaughtered. I wrote on this subject in the old Allsorts NL, and > haven't > > >changed my opinion. The vast majority of ME games are won by the > Dark > > >Servants. The reason is simple: if the game goes the distance,
the DS, and
> >particularly the Cloud Lord, can churn out so many super-agents
that they
> >can kill and kidnap with impunity. Any that are captured by
guards escape
> >the following turn, any that are Doubled can be Countered, or re-
doubled by
> >allied emissaries.
> >
> >I don't object to assassins as such. They have their place to
play in the
> >game like any other characters. What I do object to is the way
their sheer
> >NUMBERS dominate the midgame and decide the endgame. No nation in
history,
> >mythology or fantasy ever churned out agents of such power so
quickly and
> in
> >such numbers as the Cloud Lord can in ME. CL can name agents at
rank 40,
> >plus 20 to assassinations/kidnaps, plus the chance of stealth.
> >
> >NO other nation in Middle-earth can name new characters capable of
carrying
> >out Hard orders from the second they are named! This is unfair on
ALL
> other
> >nations, not just the Free. It unbalances the game. Moreover it
pushes
> the
> >Cloud Lord to produce just one type of character. Those
characters may be
> a
> >game-winners, but when you have such HUGE advantages, is playing
the
> >position really that much fun? So you win a game playing Cloud
Lord, big
> >deal. Win a game as the Woodmen, then you have achieved something!
> >
> >I suggest CL should name agents at 30 not 40, with plus 10 not 20
to
> >assassinations and kidnaps, but still with the chance of stealth.
This is
> >the same level of advantage when creating new characters that
other nations
> >have.
> >
> >Secondly, something should be done to inhibit the way in which
companies of
> >up to 9 of assassins can be deployed to hit up to 9 targets in a
single pop
> >centre. Again, this has no justification in history, mythology or
fantasy.
> >Assassins were and are SOLITARY killers. Show me a single
instance where
> >assassins operated as a group. I don't think the word assassin is
> mentioned
> >ONCE in all Tolkien's writings. So where is the justification for
a gang
> of
> >up to 9 of the bastards in the ME game?
> >
> >I am against making rules that say: you can't do such-and-such;
this
> >irritates players who want to know: why not? It's more
intelligent to make
> >rules reflect history/mythology/fantasy. So what can be done to
make
> >assassins behave in a realistic, solitary manner? Remember, this
has to be
> >entered on a computer program!
> >
> >How about: 1) only a nation's highest-ranking agent can attempt an
> >assassination/kidnap? This is explained very easily: the top guy
takes
> >precedence. Yes, this is true in criminal fraternities as well as
> >government agencies!
> >2) only one assassination/kidnap order per nation per turn?
Explained very
> >simply by the need for secrecy, plus the intelligence and logistic
> resources
> >needed to get the assassin to the right place at the right time,
and to
> make
> >sure he was not intercepted!
> >
> >Or 3), if a company moves onto an enemy pop centre, the chances of
one or
> >more members of the company getting discovered could be multiplied
by the
> >number of people in the company. Those discovered should be
arrested by
> the
> >local militia (with appropriate chance of escape to a neighbouring
hex next
> >turn). Of course the chance of discovery should also be
influenced by the
> >loyalty of the pop centre, and any fortifications (therefore
guards). So a
> >pop centre with very low loyalty would offer little or no
resistance, but a
> >fortified capital city would be realistically well guarded!
> >
> >4) allow mages to cast a one-shot Warding spell on a pop centre,
or Guard
> >spell on a character. Such spells would have to be renewed each
turn to be
> >continually effective, would only be as strong as the mage's skill
rank,
> and
> >therefore an assassin/kidnapper who was skilful enough or
possessed an
> >appropriate artifact would still get through to complete his
mission.
> >
> >On a related subject, the Steal gold order should be chucked out
> altogether.
> >It is ludicrous that a thief, or even a number of thieves, can
steal enough
> >gold to cripple a nation's economy. As for training your agents
by having
> >them steal gold from your allies' pop centres, what real-life ally
would
> >allow that? Stealing artifacts from enemies is one thing,
stealing tons of
> >gold quite another.
> >
> >Summary: the Dark servants win too often. This is due almost
entirely to
> >their superiority in agents. My suggestions are intended to
restore
> balance
> >to the game. If you've any comments or better ideas, send 'em in!
> >
> >Richard Devereux.
> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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