While MEPBM is above all a strategy game as opposed to a role playing exeprience, I do fondly remember the first game I played without knowing of the artifact power s and encounter reaction lists. Every event my character delt with was tinged with uncertainty and added an aura of mystery to the game.
I’m sure that this issue has been laboured before, but I wanted to know, (assuming it were possible), would 1650+2950 players be interested in mixing up the powers of artifacts every game, as well as perhaps the reactions to certain encounters like dragons and the like. (can’t do anything about riddles though).
Just wanted to see if there were any likeminded people…
It is an excellent idea and would receive a lot of support from many ME players, however from reading previous posts, these settings are not easy/possible to change in either the 2950 or 1650 scenarios.
See LGT’s page for suggestions on updating / improving game dynamics and rules, I do not have the URL to hand I am afraid.
Unfortunately we’re unable to mix the artefact abiliites etc for 1650 and 2950. Should we get some spare time to investigate then there is some ideas about how we can get to the database and change it but there’s no easy solution here.
Personally Clint, I’d like to see the dragons be a bit more of a chaotic encounter. With all the web information out there now everyone can get the correct response for any dragon encounter.
I feel dragons should be fearsome encounters for nearly any character. As it is now any DS who encounters most dragons can impress him for service to his Dark Lord with little or no risk. This makes dragons little more than slaves. By shifting around which dragons are recruitable by each side the encounter with a dragon for characters of either side becomes much more dicey and involves an element of risk. Of course you can modify the results for those who have dragon affecting artifacts and have some of the combat death results instead be combat left for dead and it would make going after dragons a high risk high reward proposition for both DS and Free, as it stands now the Free generally walk away from non recruitable dragons and recruit the ones they can in their encounters, while the DS roam the countryside with their press gangs. Restore that element of unease and I think the game would be improved.
To Brad:
I do agree with you in general, that the MEPBM game secrets are getting more and more well known.
One of the tings I really like about MEPBM, is the grudge games. In grudgegames, I feel that things need to bee keept very “chess” like, ie. everyone knows what everything does, so the outcome of a turn is not based to much on luck.
If we are talking non grudge games, I think that shifting artefact powers, encounters and dragons reactions, and Riddles to something new, would give the game a more roleplaying feel, and that would be nice.
I loved the sense of unknown in the early days of ME-PBM, too. and you can get quite a lot of that, including randomized arty numbers and powers, in FA.
Yes - basically if it’s hardcoded it’s hard for us to change it and we have to rely on the good will of GSI to do so.
As for the comments of 1000 and dragon encounters being too well known. 1000 is a way of getting away from this. It has its flaws but the more even set-up choices for all nations is a good rule I think. (Less Tolkienesque, but a better game).
Originally posted by nanook
[b]Try a Fourth Age game.
I loved the sense of unknown in the early days of ME-PBM, too. and you can get quite a lot of that, including randomized arty numbers and powers, in FA.
Nanook [/b]
In 4th age the nations and map features have also been randomised, so the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. You’ve got a sort of game, but very little of Tolkien’s Middle Earth left as a setting for your imagination
Do you think there’d be any point say changing the details on the 4th Age engine as a 1650 scenario? Is it possible, as with the WotR scenario, to change things like armies, chars and pops. This would mean 1650 without curse artefacts, tailored Agent abilities(LA,NKA), and rnadom artefact numbers.
In 4th age the nations and map features have also been randomised, so the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. …
One thing, which were able to do with the Last Alliance scenario was create a fixed set-up just like 1650/2950. That’s possible. Problem is that we have a lot of work to create each game so that’s more expense for players - something that clearly players won’t like.
We have also had Grudge games with limited areas so that you knew where your opponents were roughly. So it’s feasbile and once we have finished off a few of our projects we’re intending to look at this sort of thing.
With an Italian 6 team game, was have limited options or areas that worked interestingly…
This would mean 1650 without curse artefacts, tailored Agent abilities(LA,NKA), and rnadom artefact numbers.
Well the Curse artefacts are easy to house rule - no learning of the three Curse type spells (if you randomly get them then like in 1000 you are able to use them). NKA easy enough House rules, LAS not easy to do as that’s a code issue. Random artefacts - can’t do easily.
Danger of having too many scenarios is that there are more options. This actually means less games for everyone and I think would endanger the game. 25 players all wanting the same thing for 1000 never happens. I always have to email everyone asking for compromise in location, special rules etc - mostly we can find a compromise but not always.
I would like to do these sort of variants as one-offs (or if they are popular like the 12v12 Grudge game or the Gunboat game) then more of them. One way would be to limit the number of nations that actually set-up - so a 6v6v1 (1 neutral) that sort of thing but a fair bit of balancing would be required to get the right balance of nations at game start. Just some thoughts on how things could develop
Any chance you can tell how the data is stored? I mean it’ll be database files and if you could save these it’d mean not having to duplicate your efforts all the time. The source code for processing shouldn’t even be a problem then.
Does the Fourth Age mod software allow for more pops and other changes, than are actually offered to players at set up?
If so, has anyone tried using the Fourth Age mod as a template for a 1650 or 2950 game? Some of the flexibility and unknown aspects could be reproduced, but using scenarios that are understood and popular with many. The nations could be set up just like those in 1650, so that for example Cardolan gets the same pops, chars, and SNAs that it normally would have. But dragons and artifacts are changed somewhat.
Any chance you can tell how the data is stored? I mean it’ll be database files and if you could save these it’d mean not having to duplicate your efforts all the time. The source code for processing shouldn’t even be a problem then.
It doesn’t quite work that way as the set-up program modifies the files and hence removes all the database work that has been done. We’re investigating how to do this without the set-up program clearing it but we’ve not got the time to sort that out as we’re trying to get the input program to work properly.
Does the Fourth Age mod software allow for more pops and other changes, than are actually offered to players at set up?
Yes - we modify it by hand after the set-up routine is set. So we can add SNAs that sort of thing. We’ve done it before with the Last Alliance scenario. Note Dragons are not in the 1000 game so lots of players don’t like that. We’ve played with the rules for 1000 a little (eg only one nation per side allowed the +20% k/a ability) and I am collating the set-up choices that people use (eg +20% buy/sell is very popular) etc When it’s done I’ll put it in Bree and we can discuss it in depth.
Originally posted by LGTilley In 4th age the nations and map features have also been randomised, so the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. You’ve got a sort of game, but very little of Tolkien’s Middle Earth left as a setting for your imagination
Different, yes – but “very little” left?
In the old days of 1650, no one knew the details of anyone else’s setup, which FA now simulates. Yes, you could tell the approximate areas owned by each side, but as said above, you can achieve that in an FA grudge match.
Also, though nation setup does change, the major map features – Mordor, the Gap, Sea of Rhun, etc – are the same. If you place your nation near Mirkwood, you WILL see battle as surely as if you were the Dragon Lord. Place it down by the Corsairs and you’re likely as sheltered as, well… the Corsairs.
It’s an excellent Middle Earth game. Well worth trying by grizzled 1650 vets.
It’s the Fourth Age. The ME of Tolkein is over. Read the history of the FA on the company site. It’s a fun MEPBM-“Type” game. IF you have a slot, give it a shot.
