Balanced Games

"Open" game vs a Grudge game. Indie - independent, regular game where you ask for 3 nations and get Rhuduar.

Brad

···

----- Original Message ----
From: David Crane <dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 3:03:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Balanced Games

Hi

What's an Indie?

David

PS I'm sure it's obvious but I never was very bright.

Well, actually, I don't have much more to say in drilling down to "what I'd like to see". I can babble on about almost anything, of course....

I can see Clint with a little notebook jot down what factors led to his decisions to put Bob here and Sally there and pencil in some predictions. Then after the game, take a look at how it ended up vs the vision in the first place.

My last 3 1650 Indie games have fallen apart before turn 10, blame the neutrals if you want... This latest, Game 87, is seeing most of the DS quitting after Turn 5 results have run. Now this game might go on and we might be in a bug hunt scenario, so "technically" it won't "end" on Turn 6. A game ago we played 13 vs 1 for 8 or so turns (damnable Cloudy only quit when we were about to finally burn the last 2 MT's he'd been collecting.. .). Not that big a deal (at least in this one the player(s) involved have communicated. ..) but it's not a "real" game and players are wandering away. These are not "balanced". Coincidental run of bad luck? Not sure, others are complaining this is it and they're leaving...

So, for all the talk of "balancing" games, I'm not going to say MEGames/Clint doesn't do it right or well enough, I'm simply asking for a best practice process to follow up and see if there are other considerations whereby the "formula" for balancing games can be changed - or - simply fill them up without balancing and see if there's really a difference - because a Turn 5 concession is *not* a "balanced" game. If someone thinks it is, well... Scientific process - theorize, experiment, analyze results, refine/change, etc.

Cheers,

Brad

----- Original Message ----
From: Laurence G. Tilley <lgtilley@morespeed. net>
To: mepbmlist@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:09:37 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Balanced Games

On 27/06/2008 Brad Brunet wrote:

I've been told many times that MEGames tries to balance the games
before they set up. It might be worth considering a rating for the
games when their set up is final to compare against the results. This
might eventually provide some insight into whether the current
"balancing formula" needs some work and where that work might be best
directed.

Hi Brad,
One of the things the PRS should have achieved - before it got lost in a
mire of too many cooks and too many over-sensitive divas - was a way to
give us more balanced games. But I suspect that you have more to say
than you express above. How exactly would such a solution operate?

--

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley .co.uk/

http://www.buav. org

<http://www.buav. org/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Brad

I think this is more of a problem now, which probably is to do with the internet. However, there are players who give up at the slightest sign of them losing. Maybe backbone is something Clint should include when trying to balance teams at game start.

David

  "Open" game vs a Grudge game. Indie - independent, regular game where you ask for 3 nations and get Rhuduar.

  Brad

···

----- Original Message ----
  From: David Crane <dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk>
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 3:03:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Balanced Games

  Hi

  What's an Indie?

  David

  PS I'm sure it's obvious but I never was very bright.

  Well, actually, I don't have much more to say in drilling down to "what I'd like to see". I can babble on about almost anything, of course....

  I can see Clint with a little notebook jot down what factors led to his decisions to put Bob here and Sally there and pencil in some predictions. Then after the game, take a look at how it ended up vs the vision in the first place.

  My last 3 1650 Indie games have fallen apart before turn 10, blame the neutrals if you want... This latest, Game 87, is seeing most of the DS quitting after Turn 5 results have run. Now this game might go on and we might be in a bug hunt scenario, so "technically" it won't "end" on Turn 6. A game ago we played 13 vs 1 for 8 or so turns (damnable Cloudy only quit when we were about to finally burn the last 2 MT's he'd been collecting.. .). Not that big a deal (at least in this one the player(s) involved have communicated. ..) but it's not a "real" game and players are wandering away. These are not "balanced". Coincidental run of bad luck? Not sure, others are complaining this is it and they're leaving...

  So, for all the talk of "balancing" games, I'm not going to say MEGames/Clint doesn't do it right or well enough, I'm simply asking for a best practice process to follow up and see if there are other considerations whereby the "formula" for balancing games can be changed - or - simply fill them up without balancing and see if there's really a difference - because a Turn 5 concession is *not* a "balanced" game. If someone thinks it is, well... Scientific process - theorize, experiment, analyze results, refine/change, etc.

  Cheers,

  Brad

  ----- Original Message ----
  From: Laurence G. Tilley <lgtilley@morespeed. net>
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogrou ps.com
  Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:09:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Balanced Games

  On 27/06/2008 Brad Brunet wrote:
  > I've been told many times that MEGames tries to balance the games
  > before they set up. It might be worth considering a rating for the
  > games when their set up is final to compare against the results. This
  > might eventually provide some insight into whether the current
  > "balancing formula" needs some work and where that work might be best
  > directed.

  Hi Brad,
  One of the things the PRS should have achieved - before it got lost in a
  mire of too many cooks and too many over-sensitive divas - was a way to
  give us more balanced games. But I suspect that you have more to say
  than you express above. How exactly would such a solution operate?

  --

  Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley .co.uk/

  http://www.buav. org

  <http://www.buav. org/>

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I do... :slight_smile: Some players are able to take a hit better than others. Some quit at the first set-back, but mostly players who play ME a fair bit have the ability to take a set-back or five I've found.

Clint

Thanks Brad

I think this is more of a problem now, which probably is to do with the internet. However, there are players who give up at the slightest sign of them losing. Maybe backbone is something Clint should include when trying to balance teams at game start.

David

"Open" game vs a Grudge game. Indie - independent, regular game where you ask for 3 nations and get Rhuduar.

Brad

From: David Crane <<mailto:dazedandconfused%40blueyonder.co.uk>dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <mailto:mepbmlist%40yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 3:03:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Balanced Games

Hi

What's an Indie?

David

PS I'm sure it's obvious but I never was very bright.

Well, actually, I don't have much more to say in drilling down to "what I'd like to see". I can babble on about almost anything, of course....

I can see Clint with a little notebook jot down what factors led to his decisions to put Bob here and Sally there and pencil in some predictions. Then after the game, take a look at how it ended up vs the vision in the first place.

My last 3 1650 Indie games have fallen apart before turn 10, blame the neutrals if you want... This latest, Game 87, is seeing most of the DS quitting after Turn 5 results have run. Now this game might go on and we might be in a bug hunt scenario, so "technically" it won't "end" on Turn 6. A game ago we played 13 vs 1 for 8 or so turns (damnable Cloudy only quit when we were about to finally burn the last 2 MT's he'd been collecting.. .). Not that big a deal (at least in this one the player(s) involved have communicated. ..) but it's not a "real" game and players are wandering away. These are not "balanced". Coincidental run of bad luck? Not sure, others are complaining this is it and they're leaving...

So, for all the talk of "balancing" games, I'm not going to say MEGames/Clint doesn't do it right or well enough, I'm simply asking for a best practice process to follow up and see if there are other considerations whereby the "formula" for balancing games can be changed - or - simply fill them up without balancing and see if there's really a difference - because a Turn 5 concession is *not* a "balanced" game. If someone thinks it is, well... Scientific process - theorize, experiment, analyze results, refine/change, etc.

Cheers,

Brad

From: Laurence G. Tilley <lgtilley@morespeed. net>
To: mepbmlist@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:09:37 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Balanced Games

> I've been told many times that MEGames tries to balance the games
> before they set up. It might be worth considering a rating for the
> games when their set up is final to compare against the results. This
> might eventually provide some insight into whether the current
> "balancing formula" needs some work and where that work might be best
> directed.

Hi Brad,
One of the things the PRS should have achieved - before it got lost in a
mire of too many cooks and too many over-sensitive divas - was a way to
give us more balanced games. But I suspect that you have more to say
than you express above. How exactly would such a solution operate?

--

Laurence G. Tilley <http://www.lgtilley>http://www.lgtilley .co.uk/

<http://www.buav.>http://www.buav. org

<<http://www.buav.>http://www.buav. org/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

     Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
US: ME Games Ltd, 73 Edgewood Terrace, South Bound Brook NJ 08880

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)
US Phone: (732) 642-8777 EST

Fax: 029 2062 5532 (24 hours)

···

----- Original Message ----
On 27/06/2008 Brad Brunet wrote:

----------

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
US: ME Games Ltd, 73 Edgewood Terrace, South Bound Brook NJ 08880

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)
US Phone: (732) 642-8777 EST

Fax: 029 2062 5532 (24 hours)