Battle of the Five Armies

mepbmlist
#1

Richard,
The Silvans did fight against Morgoth in the First Age. Their King,
Denethor, was slain on Amon Ereb in the First Battle.
Tim

Message: 3

···

Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:55:08 +0100
   From: "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@lineone.net>
Subject: Re: Battle of the Five Armies

----- Original Message -----
From: "Din" <din_ohtar@yahoo.com.au>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Battle of the Five Armies

> > There is also in Unfinished Tales a mention of the
> > Silvan army in the Last
> > Alliance campaign suffering grievous losses due to
> > their lack of armour.
> > Damned if I can find the reference now but it
> agrees
> > with Tolkien's
> > description of the elves at Five Armies being
> > archers and spearmen (light
> > inf).

Are you REALLY sure that it was the battle of the last
alliance that the silvans got creamed ??? I thought it
was an very earlyfirst age battle (and before they got
decent armour from the dwarves and noldor). Due to
their whipping, the silvans decided that hiding wasn't
such a bad idea.

And that's why the silvans live underground.

thanks
din

RD: The Silvans didn't take part in any First Age battles, since they lived
too far east and were left behind on the Great Journey.

I didn't say the Silvans got 'creamed' in the LA campaign - depends what you
mean by 'creamed.' They ended up on the winning side but lost about 2/3 of
their number in the campaign due to lack of metal armour. The survivors
marched back to Greenwood (later Mirkwood) before Isildur and his guard of
200.

Despite their losses, the Silvans were still too numerous for the orcs (who
later ambushed Isildur at the Gladden Fields) to dare to attack them.
Woodmen and Silvans came to the battlefield too late to save the Dunedain
but in time to prevent the orcs (who had themselves suffered huge losses)
from despoiling the corpses.

Richard.

#2

Richard,
The Silvans did fight against Morgoth in the First
Age. Their King,
Denethor, was slain on Amon Ereb in the First
Battle.

yeah, that's the battle that I was talking about.

···

--- Timothy Minnig <tminnig@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

Tim

Message: 3
   Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:55:08 +0100
   From: "Richard John Devereux"
<devereux@lineone.net>
Subject: Re: Battle of the Five Armies

----- Original Message -----
From: "Din" <din_ohtar@yahoo.com.au>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Battle of the Five Armies

> > > There is also in Unfinished Tales a mention of
the
> > > Silvan army in the Last
> > > Alliance campaign suffering grievous losses
due to
> > > their lack of armour.
> > > Damned if I can find the reference now but it
> > agrees
> > > with Tolkien's
> > > description of the elves at Five Armies being
> > > archers and spearmen (light
> > > inf).
>
> Are you REALLY sure that it was the battle of the
last
> alliance that the silvans got creamed ??? I
thought it
> was an very earlyfirst age battle (and before they
got
> decent armour from the dwarves and noldor). Due to
> their whipping, the silvans decided that hiding
wasn't
> such a bad idea.
>
> And that's why the silvans live underground.
>
> thanks
> din

RD: The Silvans didn't take part in any First Age
battles, since they lived
too far east and were left behind on the Great
Journey.

I didn't say the Silvans got 'creamed' in the LA
campaign - depends what you
mean by 'creamed.' They ended up on the winning
side but lost about 2/3 of
their number in the campaign due to lack of metal
armour. The survivors
marched back to Greenwood (later Mirkwood) before
Isildur and his guard of
200.

Despite their losses, the Silvans were still too
numerous for the orcs (who
later ambushed Isildur at the Gladden Fields) to
dare to attack them.
Woodmen and Silvans came to the battlefield too late
to save the Dunedain
but in time to prevent the orcs (who had themselves
suffered huge losses)
from despoiling the corpses.

Richard.

>
>

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#3

Richard,
The Silvans did fight against Morgoth in the First Age. Their King,
Denethor, was slain on Amon Ereb in the First Battle.
Tim

RD: It's true what you say about Denethor. But Denethor was a lord of the
Nandor, who were part of the Teleri, the third and largest of the three
groups of Eldar = High Elves. The Nandor who entered Beleriand (ie
Denethor's lot) were usually counted as Sindar, but never as Silvans.

The Silvans were not Eldar but Avari = unwilling, those who refused the
summons of the Valar, and who never even attempted the Great Journey. They
did (later) spread as far west as Anduin but never crossed the Misties.

There is however an interesting parallel between the First Battle and the
Last Alliance. In the First Battle, Denethor's Nandor suffered heavy
casualties because they were only lightly armed, and there's a very similar
statement about the Silvans in the Last Alliance campaign.

Richard.

Message: 3
   Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:55:08 +0100
   From: "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@lineone.net>
Subject: Re: Battle of the Five Armies

From: "Din" <din_ohtar@yahoo.com.au>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Battle of the Five Armies

> > > There is also in Unfinished Tales a mention of the
> > > Silvan army in the Last
> > > Alliance campaign suffering grievous losses due to
> > > their lack of armour.
> > > Damned if I can find the reference now but it
> > agrees
> > > with Tolkien's
> > > description of the elves at Five Armies being
> > > archers and spearmen (light
> > > inf).
>
> Are you REALLY sure that it was the battle of the last
> alliance that the silvans got creamed ??? I thought it
> was an very earlyfirst age battle (and before they got
> decent armour from the dwarves and noldor). Due to
> their whipping, the silvans decided that hiding wasn't
> such a bad idea.
>
> And that's why the silvans live underground.
>
> thanks
> din

RD: The Silvans didn't take part in any First Age battles, since they

lived

too far east and were left behind on the Great Journey.

I didn't say the Silvans got 'creamed' in the LA campaign - depends what

you

mean by 'creamed.' They ended up on the winning side but lost about 2/3

of

their number in the campaign due to lack of metal armour. The survivors
marched back to Greenwood (later Mirkwood) before Isildur and his guard of
200.

Despite their losses, the Silvans were still too numerous for the orcs

(who

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Minnig" <tminnig@worldnet.att.net>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Battle of the Five Armies

----- Original Message -----
later ambushed Isildur at the Gladden Fields) to dare to attack them.
Woodmen and Silvans came to the battlefield too late to save the Dunedain
but in time to prevent the orcs (who had themselves suffered huge losses)
from despoiling the corpses.

Richard.

>
>

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http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

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