In a message dated 7/11/01 10:49:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
devereux@lineone.net writes:
<< RD: Disagree. Thorin has a dozen dwarves at his command, Dain has 500. So
Dain is the Dwa c-in-c and Thorin commands a tiny unit.
Most importantly you have forgotten BEORN. It was he who turned the tide of
battle, not the eagles. Beorn cut his way thru the goblin-king's guard,
Beorn slew Bolg, and Beorn who bore Thorin's corpse out of the fray. >>
My reply was not posted in the literary context, but rather the animated. The
sequence of events is the one from the Rankin-Bass animated version of "The
Hobbit", and was a reply to the inquiry regarding it. In that film, Thorin is
in the midst of negotiations (read argument) with Thranduil and Bard over the
disposition of the treasures of Erebor when Dain arrives. It is Thorin who
then initiates the battle; later making peace and uniting with the elves and
men when the goblins arrive. In the context mentioned, Thorin is the leader.
In the greater sense, Dain may have been leading the army but who could
actually be considered the nations leader in game terms? Who had the more
valid birthright?
The eagles (again, in the RB context) were there because they noticed the
goblins movements.
Beorn is not in the animated film, hence he was not mentioned.
Were the Beornings there in force sufficient to be considered an army? Were
Beorns actions of a more character based nature, ie assassination or personal
challenge?.
In a message dated 7/11/01 10:49:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
devereux@lineone.net writes:
<< RD: Disagree. Thorin has a dozen dwarves at his command, Dain has 500.
So
Dain is the Dwa c-in-c and Thorin commands a tiny unit.
Most importantly you have forgotten BEORN. It was he who turned the tide
of
battle, not the eagles. Beorn cut his way thru the goblin-king's guard,
Beorn slew Bolg, and Beorn who bore Thorin's corpse out of the fray. >>
My reply was not posted in the literary context, but rather the animated.
The
sequence of events is the one from the Rankin-Bass animated version of
"The
Hobbit", and was a reply to the inquiry regarding it. In that film, Thorin
is
in the midst of negotiations (read argument) with Thranduil and Bard over
the
disposition of the treasures of Erebor when Dain arrives. It is Thorin who
then initiates the battle; later making peace and uniting with the elves
and
men when the goblins arrive. In the context mentioned, Thorin is the
leader.
In the greater sense, Dain may have been leading the army but who could
actually be considered the nations leader in game terms? Who had the more
valid birthright?
The eagles (again, in the RB context) were there because they noticed the
goblins movements.
Beorn is not in the animated film, hence he was not mentioned.
Were the Beornings there in force sufficient to be considered an army?
Were
Beorns actions of a more character based nature, ie assassination or
personal
challenge?.
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RD: Beorn fought as an individual at the Battle of Five Armies so by no
stretch of the imagination could he be considered an army. If we want to
put it in game terms, he slew Bolg in challenge (not assass).
What is it with people who adapt this story for gaming (GSI), play or film?
The latter two totally ignore him, and in the game he's just another puny
Woodman. But it's very clear in the book, Beorn single-handedly turned the
tide of battle. The guy is a superhero not a mere mortal for heaven's sake!
And he should have mage powers as well!
Richard.
ยทยทยท
----- Original Message -----
From: <drsybaris@aol.com>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Battle of the Five Armies
