Hi,
I understand camps can be created after the camp limit at ruins? Does this applies to all ruins, such as ancient ruins (fortified and unfortified) and destroyed start up population centres?
Anyone notice if creating camps at ruins is more likely to be successful than normal ‘unruined’ hexes?
Thanks in advance if you can help!
P :hug:
Ruins count against the population limit, so to me the easiest way of thinking about ruins is to consider them population centers “level 0” (where camps would be 1, villages 2, etc.). There is no difference in types of ruins; however, there is a difference between ruins created from a popcenter’s destruction, and an empty hex from when a low loyalty camp disappears. Occasionally, actually only a time or two that I’ve seen in many games, a camp melting leaves a ruins – my theory on that is the hex in question is some nation’s VC so the code keep that hex number as a popcenter “level 0” so to speak. Another interesting thing I’ve found is, sometimes ruins disappear leaving an empty hex, somewhat analogous to a camp melting due to loyalty. So go camp any ruins hex you want as soon as possible!
Don’t forget the spirit encounters on startup ruins. They can eat your emissaries. I’m always forgetting and relearning that one on a game by game basis. But I’ve only been playing for about 20 years so I can be excused for my memory gaps 
A strategy that’s not so bad is to find a spare regent that you want to keep from the fray and have him wandering doing 552 orders (particularly as the freep). You might want him for an important job later. The camp limit passes but camps degrade to nothing and all sorts of other things happen according to turn by turn loyalty movements and also combat losses. Soon after the camp limit passes there are normally new slots, but your allies will most likely want your higher ranked emmies so you need to take advantage typically in another way.
Cheers
Drew, I’ve never considered your scenario until now - but, I think you explained it. Maybe: The PC Table has a maximum size limit and a number of records already within it - all starting pops (PC Type = “Starting”). Some are Size=0. Create a new camp, it gets poofed, for whatever reason, it becomes a Ruin (do degraded camps become ruins or destroyed camps…? either…?). It is still there because it’s still logged in the PC Tables as a record, with a PC Type of “New”… When camps are attempted to be created, a count of available slots includes Type = “New” and Size = 0. Poof, that newly created “ruin” then is overwritten by a newly posted camp elsewhere - and disappears from the map.
Rob - yessir - always have some middling range emissaries out after the limit is hit…
Cheers,
b
Starting pops are also starting mission targets so it makes sense that you can always place a new pop center there.