Colour Maps

Harlequin_Games1 · October 2, 2003, 4:02pm

We're cutting it back again v. shortly. And improving the b& w printing.. Work in progress..

Clint

···

At 09:46 02/10/03, you wrote:

A 70k ish file is now 194k. The colour is really a costly frill in my books.

Brad

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Blackhawk · October 2, 2003, 7:06pm

As I see it, I can download my turn and anyone else's that I want to look at and it will take three times as long just because of the colour map. This is not good. On the other hand, I can download all the xmls in less than a minute and have a combined full colour map with character information where I can look at any individual maps I want. I would think that it would be more sensible to consider not printing the maps in the pdfs at all to save size, rather than making them more complex.

Given that the maps are no longer vital and the character pictures are nice but don't really add anything to the game I would like to see the option of getting a text version of the pdfs for those of us still not on broadband.

Richard

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Middle Earth PBM Games
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Colour Maps

We're cutting it back again v. shortly. And improving the b& w
printing.. Work in progress..

Clint

  At 09:46 02/10/03, you wrote:
  >A 70k ish file is now 194k. The colour is really a costly frill in my books.
  >
  >Brad
  >
  >
  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  >Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
  >To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
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  UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main is engaged)
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Gavin_Wynford-Jones · October 2, 2003, 9:42pm

Richard Farrer wrote:

I can download all the xmls in less than a minute and have a combined full
colour map with character information where I can look at any individual maps
I want. I would think that it would be more sensible to consider not printing
the maps in the pdfs at all to save size, rather than making them more
complex.

That only works if you can use Palantir...

As someone might have once said, you can please all the people some of the
time, you can please some of the people all the time, but you can't please
all the people all the time. Personally, I salute Clint and company's
continued efforts at improving their product whilst other PBM enterprises
seem all too content just to sit on their butts and take the money.

As for printing... Nowadays, it's actually becoming harder and harder to
find a pure black and white printer. Colour printers are cheaper and cheaper
all the time. Colour, properly done, contributes far more information than
symbols, so the more MEPBM goes that route, the better.

As an aside, I find it interesting that no-one has asked about players
receiving printed turns through the mail and how this affects them...

Gavin

Harlequin_Games1 · October 2, 2003, 10:50pm

As an aside, I find it interesting that no-one has asked about players
receiving printed turns through the mail and how this affects them...

Sorry I don't understand. Do you mean players who play by post?

Clint

Gavin_Wynford-Jones · October 2, 2003, 11:40pm

Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

As an aside, I find it interesting that no-one has asked about players
receiving printed turns through the mail and how this affects them...

Sorry I don't understand. Do you mean players who play by post?

Less than a year ago, the big (and agitated) debate was between postal
players and email players. The fact that the current debate is all about
colour versus black and white maps shows how quickly and how far we've moved
on: the assumption seems to be that everyone now plays by email and no
mention has been made of traditional paper.

I just thought it was interesting how attitudes have unfolded.

Gavin

Brad_Jenison · October 3, 2003, 1:29am

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Farrer" <richard@r...>
wrote:

As I see it, I can download my turn and anyone else's that I want

to look at and it will take three times as long just because of the
colour map. This is not good. On the other hand, I can download all
the xmls in less than a minute and have a combined full colour map
with character information where I can look at any individual maps I
want. I would think that it would be more sensible to consider not
printing the maps in the pdfs at all to save size, rather than making
them more complex.

Given that the maps are no longer vital and the character pictures

are nice but don't really add anything to the game I would like to
see the option of getting a text version of the pdfs for those of us
still not on broadband.

Richard, the map is still very much vital to me. I like to be able to
quickly look at my nation map in my pdf and don't want to lose that.
The Character pictures add personality to the game but I could stand
to lose them more than I could my nation map. For those of us who do
not know how to use the xmls or even what they are for that matter,
or who are not yet using Auto Magic or Palantir and may not want to
go to the trouble of learning all this computer stuff and want to
keep it simple I think that the extra bells and whistles should be an
option not a requirement. I have a 6 Megabyte email inbox and am
running in two different games; 140 k for every player will fill that
up pretty damn fast.

Oh and by the way you Southern Gondor slugs, you're not welcome in
Mordor and it is bad for your health to come here. Stay at home and
tend your fields until we come for you.

Brad

Richard
  From: Middle Earth PBM Games
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Colour Maps

  We're cutting it back again v. shortly. And improving the b& w
  printing.. Work in progress..

  Clint

  >A 70k ish file is now 194k. The colour is really a costly frill

in my books.

  >
  >Brad
  >
  >
  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  >Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
  >To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
  >Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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  UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
  US: EpicMail, 12330 Perry Highway, 2nd Floor, Wexford, PA15090

  Phone Times: 10am-6.30pm UK Time (BST);5am-1.30 (EST)
  UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main is engaged)
  (Dial 011 44 2920 913359 if in the US)
  UK Fax: 029 2062 5532 24 hours
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···

----- Original Message -----
At 09:46 02/10/03, you wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Colin_Forbes · October 3, 2003, 1:37am

Hi,
Just got my first turns with colour maps and loved them. I' not too
sure yet whether there's much practical benefit, though one thing that
does spring to mind is that it's much easier tell where there's a
minor river next to a mountain hex (black next to black was never good).

The thing that stood out about middle Earth when it was first launched
was the appearance of the turns. at the time most PBM turns were
printed on dot-matix printers, and often on horrible gatefold paper at
that. MEPBM had nice fonts (since largely lost, alas), character
pictures and wonderfully easy to read graphical maps. Anyone wanting a
contrast should look at the maps you still get with Austerlitz - full
of vital info, but impossible to take in at a glance.

Sadly this initial gorgeousness has not been improved upon over the
past decade - part of the overarching stupidity of the GSI business
plan, ie get a product and live on the profits without making
continual improvements. Happily Harlequin understand the necessity of
keeping the ball of progress rolling a lot better that the game
designers. colour maps are a leap forward - or rather a leap to catch
up with other PBM games who have sadly overtaken MEPBM in the
presentation stakes over the past 10 years. Now if only those nice
fonts can be restored .. and better scans of the gorgeous original
character artwork made, then MEPBMwill once again look snappy and
contemporary.

Kudos to Harlequin - sorry, *M.E. Games Ltd*, for making what
improvements they can while being hamstrung by lazy and lacklustre
programmers at GSI.

Keep up the good work!

Colin

gavin · October 3, 2003, 4:09am

Less than a year ago, the big (and agitated) debate was between postal
players and email players. The fact that the current debate is all about
colour versus black and white maps shows how quickly and how far we've

moved

on: the assumption seems to be that everyone now plays by email and no
mention has been made of traditional paper.

I just thought it was interesting how attitudes have unfolded.

Gavin

What are you talking about? This is an email group...where are the postal
players on this list..? Isn't there a fundamental contradiction there...?

Brad

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gavinwj" <gavinwj@compuserve.com>

Gavin_Wynford-Jones · October 3, 2003, 8:20am

Brad Brunet wrote:

Less than a year ago, the big (and agitated) debate was between postal
players and email players. The fact that the current debate is all about
colour versus black and white maps shows how quickly and how far we've

moved

on: the assumption seems to be that everyone now plays by email and no
mention has been made of traditional paper.

I just thought it was interesting how attitudes have unfolded.

Gavin

What are you talking about? This is an email group...where are the postal
players on this list..? Isn't there a fundamental contradiction there...?

There didn't seem to be a contradiction a year ago...

Gavin

D_N · October 3, 2003, 6:12pm

Whatever you think of them -- no change will please
everyone -- it's great that ME Games tackles so many
improvements.

As Colin notes, they can't change the game code, and
yet they're still advancing the game experience.

Hats off, gentlemen, and thanks!

Dan N

PS - On a personal note, I'd NEVER go back to the days
of heavy data-entry. And despite all the information
handed to us in a convenient package, I still find
plenty to do in all my games -- and many, many ways to
make dumb mistakes...

[Colin:] Happily Harlequin understand the necessity

of
keeping the ball of progress rolling a lot better that
the game
designers. colour maps are a leap forward...
Kudos to Harlequin - sorry, *M.E. Games Ltd*, for
making what
improvements they can while being hamstrung by lazy
and lacklustre
programmers at GSI.

···

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gavin · October 3, 2003, 6:28pm

> Brad Brunet wrote:
> What are you talking about? This is an email group...where are the

postal

> players on this list..? Isn't there a fundamental contradiction

there...?

>

From: "Gavinwj" <gavinwj@compuserve.com>
There didn't seem to be a contradiction a year ago...

Gavin

I apologize if my mail could have been taken in some offensive way. But my
initial question stands and hasn't been answered. What happened a year ago?
You have made an observation and it depends on an understanding of an issue
or debate or something that you have referenced from "a year ago". Please
remind me (us?) of this issue/debate/something so we can thusly understand
the initial point you're trying to make.

Thanks,

Brad

Gavin_Wynford-Jones · October 4, 2003, 12:11pm

Er, no offence taken nor spotted even.

I thought I'd put the reference into my original post. Anyway, to clarify...
About a year ago there was a lot of discussion on this list about
improvements under way and being planned. Most of them would only apply to
players using email (Automagic, for example). At the time, there were a lot
of comments (and much, much, discussion) along the lines of "what about
those players who use the postal system and don't want to use email and/or
computers".

This time around, the changes have been absorbed, and we've become so used
to email turns and all the goodies that go with it (especially AM!) that
nobody has said "but what about those using paper?".

The shift in attitudes took less than a year. And I found that interesting
from many standpoints.

Gavin

Brad Brunet wrote:

···

Brad Brunet wrote:
What are you talking about? This is an email group...where are the

postal

players on this list..? Isn't there a fundamental contradiction

there...?

From: "Gavinwj" <gavinwj@compuserve.com>
There didn't seem to be a contradiction a year ago...

Gavin

I apologize if my mail could have been taken in some offensive way. But my
initial question stands and hasn't been answered. What happened a year ago?
You have made an observation and it depends on an understanding of an issue
or debate or something that you have referenced from "a year ago". Please
remind me (us?) of this issue/debate/something so we can thusly understand
the initial point you're trying to make.

Thanks,

Brad

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