Combat simulation, I need help

mepbmlist
#1

I need some help understanding the combat system. Obviously the
combat simulators we all so depend on can be thrown out the Friggin
window with this one. I understand randomality can occur, but please
give me some feedback on what you guys think, can the combat system
the game uses be that different, really and is randomality a 80%
swing in battle.

The situation is this, and yes I realize there is some randomality
within the game, I had a Woodmen army of 500 LI Br wpn Le armor, 600
Archers both 50 training rank with a 29 morale and a 10 commander.
The Dragon Lord had 400 Hi wo wpns, no armor, 10 training rank as
they were new hires, and 100 men at arms Bronze wpn Leather armor,
about 25 training probably 40+ morale, and 40 command. We were at
Dol Guldur. tactic used Woodies surround/ DL standard, Warm Woods

I after the turn was run then went ahead double checked the numbers
and was still getting a completely different number than Harly. I
put 49 commander (doubt it turn 4 all Woodrushack did was recruit)
put 49 morale as the men at arms were from the starting army and did
sit a pop center for three turns. I put the DL at hated ran the
numbers with Dol Guldur at 100% loyalty, granted I was inteding on
hitting walls. The numbers came out I take 76 % casualties DL takes
100% casualties, Harlequins numbers are I die to the man, adn DL
lives with over a 100 troops left as his army was not disbanded. How
does this occur, after doing hand calculations based off of the
rulebook I still should have kicked the DL's butt. I can't
understand how the combat could have gone so askew. This was a game
breaking combat, Bain with a 165 command was there to threaten, the
issue was going to be settled, assasins trying to kill Bain in his
own pop were going to have a harder time of it. What kind of
randomality was this. Woodrushack had to lose only 80.1% of his
troops to disband, is Harley goign to tell me in this situation I
couldn't do 80.1% casualties. I thought of weapons and spells, went
back looked none of the above were took place. Heck we knew were
Celhdring, Orduclax, Maben, and Khamul were this turn. Only one mage
left and battle report says no spells cast. i thought of Fanaticism,
which does not show up on battle report as a spell but the Morale of
army was not that high, they were not energetic. I do not know what
to say all I can say is I hope this was an error of accident.

Brian Woodmen 74

#2

One clue may be in the tactics used. DrL used standard tactics so his action
could have been refuse challenge and hire army. So even though his army died
either because of 100% casualties or going below 100 troops he immeadiately
hired new army so that it looked as though he was still there. This is a
common tactic to try and hold off a threatening force.

Can you copy and paste the battle result from your turn so we can all see
it?

Regards

Mike

···

----- Original Message -----
From: <blchezluis@aol.com>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:02 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Combat simulation, I need help

I need some help understanding the combat system. Obviously the
combat simulators we all so depend on can be thrown out the Friggin
window with this one. I understand randomality can occur, but please
give me some feedback on what you guys think, can the combat system
the game uses be that different, really and is randomality a 80%
swing in battle.

The situation is this, and yes I realize there is some randomality
within the game, I had a Woodmen army of 500 LI Br wpn Le armor, 600
Archers both 50 training rank with a 29 morale and a 10 commander.
The Dragon Lord had 400 Hi wo wpns, no armor, 10 training rank as
they were new hires, and 100 men at arms Bronze wpn Leather armor,
about 25 training probably 40+ morale, and 40 command. We were at
Dol Guldur. tactic used Woodies surround/ DL standard, Warm Woods

I after the turn was run then went ahead double checked the numbers
and was still getting a completely different number than Harly. I
put 49 commander (doubt it turn 4 all Woodrushack did was recruit)
put 49 morale as the men at arms were from the starting army and did
sit a pop center for three turns. I put the DL at hated ran the
numbers with Dol Guldur at 100% loyalty, granted I was inteding on
hitting walls. The numbers came out I take 76 % casualties DL takes
100% casualties, Harlequins numbers are I die to the man, adn DL
lives with over a 100 troops left as his army was not disbanded. How
does this occur, after doing hand calculations based off of the
rulebook I still should have kicked the DL's butt. I can't
understand how the combat could have gone so askew. This was a game
breaking combat, Bain with a 165 command was there to threaten, the
issue was going to be settled, assasins trying to kill Bain in his
own pop were going to have a harder time of it. What kind of
randomality was this. Woodrushack had to lose only 80.1% of his
troops to disband, is Harley goign to tell me in this situation I
couldn't do 80.1% casualties. I thought of weapons and spells, went
back looked none of the above were took place. Heck we knew were
Celhdring, Orduclax, Maben, and Khamul were this turn. Only one mage
left and battle report says no spells cast. i thought of Fanaticism,
which does not show up on battle report as a spell but the Morale of
army was not that high, they were not energetic. I do not know what
to say all I can say is I hope this was an error of accident.

Brian Woodmen 74

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#3

he immeadiately
hired new army so that it looked as though he was
still there. This is a
common tactic to try and hold off a threatening
force.

It can't be that. The magic question is 'why did I
lose the battle ?". Not 'why are there still enemy
troops there'.

Can you copy and paste the battle result from your
turn so we can all see it?

I'll like to hear from the other side as well

thanks
din

···

Regards

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <blchezluis@aol.com>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:02 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Combat simulation, I need help

> I need some help understanding the combat system.
Obviously the
> combat simulators we all so depend on can be
thrown out the Friggin
> window with this one. I understand randomality
can occur, but please
> give me some feedback on what you guys think, can
the combat system
> the game uses be that different, really and is
randomality a 80%
> swing in battle.
>
> The situation is this, and yes I realize there is
some randomality
> within the game, I had a Woodmen army of 500 LI Br
wpn Le armor, 600
> Archers both 50 training rank with a 29 morale and
a 10 commander.
> The Dragon Lord had 400 Hi wo wpns, no armor, 10
training rank as
> they were new hires, and 100 men at arms Bronze
wpn Leather armor,
> about 25 training probably 40+ morale, and 40
command. We were at
> Dol Guldur. tactic used Woodies surround/ DL
standard, Warm Woods
>
> I after the turn was run then went ahead double
checked the numbers
> and was still getting a completely different
number than Harly. I
> put 49 commander (doubt it turn 4 all Woodrushack
did was recruit)
> put 49 morale as the men at arms were from the
starting army and did
> sit a pop center for three turns. I put the DL at
hated ran the
> numbers with Dol Guldur at 100% loyalty, granted I
was inteding on
> hitting walls. The numbers came out I take 76 %
casualties DL takes
> 100% casualties, Harlequins numbers are I die to
the man, adn DL
> lives with over a 100 troops left as his army was
not disbanded. How
> does this occur, after doing hand calculations
based off of the
> rulebook I still should have kicked the DL's butt.
I can't
> understand how the combat could have gone so
askew. This was a game
> breaking combat, Bain with a 165 command was there
to threaten, the
> issue was going to be settled, assasins trying to
kill Bain in his
> own pop were going to have a harder time of it.
What kind of
> randomality was this. Woodrushack had to lose
only 80.1% of his
> troops to disband, is Harley goign to tell me in
this situation I
> couldn't do 80.1% casualties. I thought of
weapons and spells, went
> back looked none of the above were took place.
Heck we knew were
> Celhdring, Orduclax, Maben, and Khamul were this
turn. Only one mage
> left and battle report says no spells cast. i
thought of Fanaticism,
> which does not show up on battle report as a spell
but the Morale of
> army was not that high, they were not energetic.
I do not know what
> to say all I can say is I hope this was an error
of accident.
>
> Brian Woodmen 74
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin
Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin
Games
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http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

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#4

Hey Guys,

Just to test the validity of the combat generator, there was another
battle in that game involving Dog Lord troops and a North Gondor
cavalry army. After putting in the known factors (We knew alot about
the enemy army), the actual total results came to within 10% of the
Combat Generator. The only variable that would could not factor in was
what the Dog issued challenge and we refused it. Thus the total morale
swing could not be factored. Still the results are pretty solid the
the combat calc is fairly accurate.

#5

Lucas,

For some reason I am reminded of the infamous 100,000
morale army scenario, you know which one I am talking
about. The guys had extremely (artificially) high
morale, thus a huge combat bonus and wiped out an army
twice their size in one round. Can't remember what
game that was. THink the program burped up again?

Mike

···

--- lucasc68@yahoo.com wrote:

Hey Guys,

Just to test the validity of the combat generator,
there was another
battle in that game involving Dog Lord troops and a
North Gondor
cavalry army. After putting in the known factors (We
knew alot about
the enemy army), the actual total results came to
within 10% of the
Combat Generator. The only variable that would could
not factor in was
what the Dog issued challenge and we refused it.
Thus the total morale
swing could not be factored. Still the results are
pretty solid the
the combat calc is fairly accurate.

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#6

What's up Mike.
--- In mepbmlist@y..., mike bateman <mike_a_bateman@y...> wrote:

···

Lucas,

For some reason I am reminded of the infamous 100,000
morale army scenario, you know which one I am talking
about. The guys had extremely (artificially) high
morale, thus a huge combat bonus and wiped out an army
twice their size in one round. Can't remember what
game that was. THink the program burped up again?

Mike

--- lucasc68@y... wrote:
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> Just to test the validity of the combat generator,
> there was another
> battle in that game involving Dog Lord troops and a
> North Gondor
> cavalry army. After putting in the known factors (We
> knew alot about
> the enemy army), the actual total results came to
> within 10% of the
> Combat Generator. The only variable that would could
> not factor in was
> what the Dog issued challenge and we refused it.
> Thus the total morale
> swing could not be factored. Still the results are
> pretty solid the
> the combat calc is fairly accurate.
>
>

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#7

Close battle

WM:
2500 + 3600 = 6100 ideal attack
2500 + 1200 + 250 = 3950 constitution

DrL:
4000 + 200 = 4200 ideal attack
4000 + 200 + 20 = 4220 constitution + 17.5% bonus (estimated) for
keep = 4958.

typically speaking, armies will do around 50% of ideal attack
strength in damage...

Relations (are you at hated with DrL? Does he hate you?) may have
had an impact, as well as the tactics used.

The combat calculator, as good as it is, isn't a 100% guarantee...
for instance, I don't believe I've ever seen the actual percentages
that the game uses for tactic vs. tactic adjustments... so whoever
made the calculator pulled his numbers out of thin air. Not to
mention the random factor thrown in combats.

In short, looks like a close battle to me, but you just got the short
end of the stick...

Josh

--- In mepbmlist@y..., blchezluis@a... wrote:

I need some help understanding the combat system. Obviously the
combat simulators we all so depend on can be thrown out the Friggin
window with this one. I understand randomality can occur, but

please

give me some feedback on what you guys think, can the combat system
the game uses be that different, really and is randomality a 80%
swing in battle.

The situation is this, and yes I realize there is some randomality
within the game, I had a Woodmen army of 500 LI Br wpn Le armor,

600

Archers both 50 training rank with a 29 morale and a 10 commander.
The Dragon Lord had 400 Hi wo wpns, no armor, 10 training rank as
they were new hires, and 100 men at arms Bronze wpn Leather armor,
about 25 training probably 40+ morale, and 40 command. We were at
Dol Guldur. tactic used Woodies surround/ DL standard, Warm Woods

I after the turn was run then went ahead double checked the numbers
and was still getting a completely different number than Harly. I
put 49 commander (doubt it turn 4 all Woodrushack did was recruit)
put 49 morale as the men at arms were from the starting army and

did

sit a pop center for three turns. I put the DL at hated ran the
numbers with Dol Guldur at 100% loyalty, granted I was inteding on
hitting walls. The numbers came out I take 76 % casualties DL

takes

100% casualties, Harlequins numbers are I die to the man, adn DL
lives with over a 100 troops left as his army was not disbanded.

How

does this occur, after doing hand calculations based off of the
rulebook I still should have kicked the DL's butt. I can't
understand how the combat could have gone so askew. This was a

game

breaking combat, Bain with a 165 command was there to threaten, the
issue was going to be settled, assasins trying to kill Bain in his
own pop were going to have a harder time of it. What kind of
randomality was this. Woodrushack had to lose only 80.1% of his
troops to disband, is Harley goign to tell me in this situation I
couldn't do 80.1% casualties. I thought of weapons and spells,

went

back looked none of the above were took place. Heck we knew were
Celhdring, Orduclax, Maben, and Khamul were this turn. Only one

mage

left and battle report says no spells cast. i thought of

Fanaticism,

which does not show up on battle report as a spell but the Morale

of

army was not that high, they were not energetic. I do not know

what

···

to say all I can say is I hope this was an error of accident.

Brian Woodmen 74