Combat simulation, I need help

mepbmlist
#1

Fortifications at your pop centre in the hex would help the Dragon.
Rumours have the Direct Bonus to Defense Constitution for the
defending army at ranging from 10 % (tower ) to 20% (Citadel). Who
knows, the capital may present a bonus also? Maybe the Dragon
improved armour?

bb

···

On Tue, 10 July 2001, blchezluis@aol.com wrote:

I need some help understanding the combat system. Obviously the
combat simulators we all so depend on can be thrown out the Friggin
window with this one. I understand randomality can occur, but please
give me some feedback on what you guys think, can the combat system
the game uses be that different, really and is randomality a 80%
swing in battle.

The situation is this, and yes I realize there is some randomality
within the game, I had a Woodmen army of 500 LI Br wpn Le armor, 600
Archers both 50 training rank with a 29 morale and a 10 commander.
The Dragon Lord had 400 Hi wo wpns, no armor, 10 training rank as
they were new hires, and 100 men at arms Bronze wpn Leather armor,
about 25 training probably 40+ morale, and 40 command. We were at
Dol Guldur. tactic used Woodies surround/ DL standard, Warm Woods

I after the turn was run then went ahead double checked the numbers
and was still getting a completely different number than Harly. I
put 49 commander (doubt it turn 4 all Woodrushack did was recruit)
put 49 morale as the men at arms were from the starting army and did
sit a pop center for three turns. I put the DL at hated ran the
numbers with Dol Guldur at 100% loyalty, granted I was inteding on
hitting walls. The numbers came out I take 76 % casualties DL takes
100% casualties, Harlequins numbers are I die to the man, adn DL
lives with over a 100 troops left as his army was not disbanded. How
does this occur, after doing hand calculations based off of the
rulebook I still should have kicked the DL's butt. I can't
understand how the combat could have gone so askew. This was a game
breaking combat, Bain with a 165 command was there to threaten, the
issue was going to be settled, assasins trying to kill Bain in his
own pop were going to have a harder time of it. What kind of
randomality was this. Woodrushack had to lose only 80.1% of his
troops to disband, is Harley goign to tell me in this situation I
couldn't do 80.1% casualties. I thought of weapons and spells, went
back looked none of the above were took place. Heck we knew were
Celhdring, Orduclax, Maben, and Khamul were this turn. Only one mage
left and battle report says no spells cast. i thought of Fanaticism,
which does not show up on battle report as a spell but the Morale of
army was not that high, they were not energetic. I do not know what
to say all I can say is I hope this was an error of accident.

Brian Woodmen 74

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#2

--- In mepbmlist@y..., BBrunet <ditletang@c...> wrote:

Fortifications at your pop centre in the hex would help the Dragon.
Rumours have the Direct Bonus to Defense Constitution for the
defending army at ranging from 10 % (tower ) to 20% (Citadel). Who
knows, the capital may present a bonus also? Maybe the Dragon
improved armour?

bb

Valid viewpoint, but improved armor would have shown up on the battle
report. I am going on factual information, ie the battle occured and
am pizzed off due to the results. I can not believe that the % bonus
for a fortification can have that much of swing, especially wiht it
included in the combat calc. Going strictly off of the rulebook
stregnth and con values I should really really wipe him out. Taking
other factors into consideration lessens his loss, but it should be a
loss nonetheless. the opponents seem to have thought so, as it seems
their anticipated moves were planned as though they lost the fight.

Brian

>
> I need some help understanding the combat system. Obviously the
> combat simulators we all so depend on can be thrown out the

Friggin

> window with this one. I understand randomality can occur, but

please

> give me some feedback on what you guys think, can the combat

system

> the game uses be that different, really and is randomality a 80%
> swing in battle.
>
> The situation is this, and yes I realize there is some

randomality

> within the game, I had a Woodmen army of 500 LI Br wpn Le armor,

600

> Archers both 50 training rank with a 29 morale and a 10

commander.

> The Dragon Lord had 400 Hi wo wpns, no armor, 10 training rank as
> they were new hires, and 100 men at arms Bronze wpn Leather

armor,

> about 25 training probably 40+ morale, and 40 command. We were

at

> Dol Guldur. tactic used Woodies surround/ DL standard, Warm Woods
>
> I after the turn was run then went ahead double checked the

numbers

> and was still getting a completely different number than Harly.

I

> put 49 commander (doubt it turn 4 all Woodrushack did was

recruit)

> put 49 morale as the men at arms were from the starting army and

did

> sit a pop center for three turns. I put the DL at hated ran the
> numbers with Dol Guldur at 100% loyalty, granted I was inteding

on

> hitting walls. The numbers came out I take 76 % casualties DL

takes

> 100% casualties, Harlequins numbers are I die to the man, adn DL
> lives with over a 100 troops left as his army was not disbanded.

How

> does this occur, after doing hand calculations based off of the
> rulebook I still should have kicked the DL's butt. I can't
> understand how the combat could have gone so askew. This was a

game

> breaking combat, Bain with a 165 command was there to threaten,

the

> issue was going to be settled, assasins trying to kill Bain in

his

> own pop were going to have a harder time of it. What kind of
> randomality was this. Woodrushack had to lose only 80.1% of his
> troops to disband, is Harley goign to tell me in this situation I
> couldn't do 80.1% casualties. I thought of weapons and spells,

went

> back looked none of the above were took place. Heck we knew were
> Celhdring, Orduclax, Maben, and Khamul were this turn. Only one

mage

> left and battle report says no spells cast. i thought of

Fanaticism,

> which does not show up on battle report as a spell but the Morale

of

> army was not that high, they were not energetic. I do not know

what

> to say all I can say is I hope this was an error of accident.
>
> Brian Woodmen 74
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

···

On Tue, 10 July 2001, blchezluis@a... wrote:

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#3

What about combat artifacts? Did you double check them as they could have
hit you hard in the first round, enough to turn the tide so that he managed
to survive with extreme losses.

-Draugnar

···

-----Original Message-----
From: blchezluis@aol.com [mailto:blchezluis@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 5:53 PM
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Combat simulation, I need help

--- In mepbmlist@y..., BBrunet <ditletang@c...> wrote:

Fortifications at your pop centre in the hex would help the Dragon.
Rumours have the Direct Bonus to Defense Constitution for the
defending army at ranging from 10 % (tower ) to 20% (Citadel). Who
knows, the capital may present a bonus also? Maybe the Dragon
improved armour?

bb

Valid viewpoint, but improved armor would have shown up on the battle
report. I am going on factual information, ie the battle occured and
am pizzed off due to the results. I can not believe that the % bonus
for a fortification can have that much of swing, especially wiht it
included in the combat calc. Going strictly off of the rulebook
stregnth and con values I should really really wipe him out. Taking
other factors into consideration lessens his loss, but it should be a
loss nonetheless. the opponents seem to have thought so, as it seems
their anticipated moves were planned as though they lost the fight.

Brian

On Tue, 10 July 2001, blchezluis@a... wrote:

>
> I need some help understanding the combat system. Obviously the
> combat simulators we all so depend on can be thrown out the

Friggin

> window with this one. I understand randomality can occur, but

please

> give me some feedback on what you guys think, can the combat

system

> the game uses be that different, really and is randomality a 80%
> swing in battle.
>
> The situation is this, and yes I realize there is some

randomality

> within the game, I had a Woodmen army of 500 LI Br wpn Le armor,

600

> Archers both 50 training rank with a 29 morale and a 10

commander.

> The Dragon Lord had 400 Hi wo wpns, no armor, 10 training rank as
> they were new hires, and 100 men at arms Bronze wpn Leather

armor,

> about 25 training probably 40+ morale, and 40 command. We were

at

> Dol Guldur. tactic used Woodies surround/ DL standard, Warm Woods
>
> I after the turn was run then went ahead double checked the

numbers

> and was still getting a completely different number than Harly.

I

> put 49 commander (doubt it turn 4 all Woodrushack did was

recruit)

> put 49 morale as the men at arms were from the starting army and

did

> sit a pop center for three turns. I put the DL at hated ran the
> numbers with Dol Guldur at 100% loyalty, granted I was inteding

on

> hitting walls. The numbers came out I take 76 % casualties DL

takes

> 100% casualties, Harlequins numbers are I die to the man, adn DL
> lives with over a 100 troops left as his army was not disbanded.

How

> does this occur, after doing hand calculations based off of the
> rulebook I still should have kicked the DL's butt. I can't
> understand how the combat could have gone so askew. This was a

game

> breaking combat, Bain with a 165 command was there to threaten,

the

> issue was going to be settled, assasins trying to kill Bain in

his

> own pop were going to have a harder time of it. What kind of
> randomality was this. Woodrushack had to lose only 80.1% of his
> troops to disband, is Harley goign to tell me in this situation I
> couldn't do 80.1% casualties. I thought of weapons and spells,

went

> back looked none of the above were took place. Heck we knew were
> Celhdring, Orduclax, Maben, and Khamul were this turn. Only one

mage

> left and battle report says no spells cast. i thought of

Fanaticism,

> which does not show up on battle report as a spell but the Morale

of

> army was not that high, they were not energetic. I do not know

what

> to say all I can say is I hope this was an error of accident.
>
> Brian Woodmen 74
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

__________________________________________________________
Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com

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#4

--- In mepbmlist@y..., BBrunet <ditletang@c...> wrote:
> Fortifications at your pop centre in the hex would help the Dragon.
> Rumours have the Direct Bonus to Defense Constitution for the
> defending army at ranging from 10 % (tower ) to 20% (Citadel). Who
> knows, the capital may present a bonus also? Maybe the Dragon
> improved armour?

Valid viewpoint, but improved armor would have shown up on the battle
report. I am going on factual information, ie the battle occured and
am pizzed off due to the results. I can not believe that the % bonus
for a fortification can have that much of swing, especially wiht it
included in the combat calc.

Constitution bonuses are substantially more useful than one might
think (certainly a 10% con bonus is much better than a 10% attack
bonus).

Going strictly off of the rulebook
stregnth and con values I should really really wipe him out. Taking
other factors into consideration lessens his loss, but it should be a
loss nonetheless. the opponents seem to have thought so, as it seems
their anticipated moves were planned as though they lost the fight.

This may sound really obvious, but did you check and see if the
Dragon Lord cast any spells during the battle? Were there any
Dragon characters with weapons present?

Tony Z

···

On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:53:16PM -0000, blchezluis@aol.com wrote:
--
"The King with half the East at heel is marched from lands of morning;
His fighters drink the rivers up, their shafts benight the air,
And he that stays will die for naught, and home there's no returning."
The Spartans on the sea-wet rock sat down and combed their hair.--A.E. Housman

#5

In respons to the helpful thoughts the Dragon Lord player had no
weapons, no spells, no dragons, and I put the fortification into the
calc. I do not see what could have happened to lose the battle,
other than some incorrect entry on Harley's behalf. I upped the
morale of the army to do a second calc run, put the command at 49 and
still I am victorious, on paper and in arm combat calc. What gives?

Please help,
Brian

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Tony Zbaraschuk <tonyz@e...> wrote:

> --- In mepbmlist@y..., BBrunet <ditletang@c...> wrote:
> > Fortifications at your pop centre in the hex would help the

Dragon.

> > Rumours have the Direct Bonus to Defense Constitution for the
> > defending army at ranging from 10 % (tower ) to 20% (Citadel).

Who

> > knows, the capital may present a bonus also? Maybe the Dragon
> > improved armour?
>
> Valid viewpoint, but improved armor would have shown up on the

battle

> report. I am going on factual information, ie the battle occured

and

> am pizzed off due to the results. I can not believe that the %

bonus

> for a fortification can have that much of swing, especially wiht

it

> included in the combat calc.

Constitution bonuses are substantially more useful than one might
think (certainly a 10% con bonus is much better than a 10% attack
bonus).

> Going strictly off of the rulebook
> stregnth and con values I should really really wipe him out.

Taking

> other factors into consideration lessens his loss, but it should

be a

> loss nonetheless. the opponents seem to have thought so, as it

seems

> their anticipated moves were planned as though they lost the

fight.

This may sound really obvious, but did you check and see if the
Dragon Lord cast any spells during the battle? Were there any
Dragon characters with weapons present?

Tony Z
--
"The King with half the East at heel is marched from lands of

morning;

His fighters drink the rivers up, their shafts benight the air,
And he that stays will die for naught, and home there's no

returning."

The Spartans on the sea-wet rock sat down and combed their hair.--

A.E. Housman

···

On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:53:16PM -0000, blchezluis@a... wrote:

#6

I ran the battle calc. You should win.

Deni

···

----- Original Message -----
From: <blchezluis@aol.com>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 6:13 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Combat simulation, I need help

In respons to the helpful thoughts the Dragon Lord player had no
weapons, no spells, no dragons, and I put the fortification into the
calc. I do not see what could have happened to lose the battle,
other than some incorrect entry on Harley's behalf. I upped the
morale of the army to do a second calc run, put the command at 49 and
still I am victorious, on paper and in arm combat calc. What gives?

Please help,
Brian

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Tony Zbaraschuk <tonyz@e...> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:53:16PM -0000, blchezluis@a... wrote:
> > --- In mepbmlist@y..., BBrunet <ditletang@c...> wrote:
> > > Fortifications at your pop centre in the hex would help the
Dragon.
> > > Rumours have the Direct Bonus to Defense Constitution for the
> > > defending army at ranging from 10 % (tower ) to 20% (Citadel).
Who
> > > knows, the capital may present a bonus also? Maybe the Dragon
> > > improved armour?
> >
> > Valid viewpoint, but improved armor would have shown up on the
battle
> > report. I am going on factual information, ie the battle occured
and
> > am pizzed off due to the results. I can not believe that the %
bonus
> > for a fortification can have that much of swing, especially wiht
it
> > included in the combat calc.
>
> Constitution bonuses are substantially more useful than one might
> think (certainly a 10% con bonus is much better than a 10% attack
> bonus).
>
> > Going strictly off of the rulebook
> > stregnth and con values I should really really wipe him out.
Taking
> > other factors into consideration lessens his loss, but it should
be a
> > loss nonetheless. the opponents seem to have thought so, as it
seems
> > their anticipated moves were planned as though they lost the
fight.
>
> This may sound really obvious, but did you check and see if the
> Dragon Lord cast any spells during the battle? Were there any
> Dragon characters with weapons present?
>
>
> Tony Z
> --
> "The King with half the East at heel is marched from lands of
morning;
> His fighters drink the rivers up, their shafts benight the air,
> And he that stays will die for naught, and home there's no
returning."
> The Spartans on the sea-wet rock sat down and combed their hair.--
A.E. Housman

Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
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http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

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#7

--- dgarrett <gtgsmom@swbell.net> wrote: > I ran the
battle calc. You should win.

Deni

I would talk to the enemy, and find out what they had.

And ask them why they think they won.

Its not harly fault you lost, as they just enter the
order code. I don't think they have any input into
army battles.

But Stu might be able to supply some feedback.

thanks
din

p.s I also think you should have won.

···

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#8

I can not believe that the % bonus
for a fortification can have that much of swing, especially wiht it
included in the combat calc.

*** Checking a battle that I recently simulated the Fortifications weren't
effectively added into the combat routine. Their effectives is sometimes
underestimated by players - especially over a long battle.

Clint

#9

What error did we do? If you know what we did wrong then please inform us.
It's the fortifications here.

···

In respons to the helpful thoughts the Dragon Lord player had no
weapons, no spells, no dragons, and I put the fortification into the
calc. I do not see what could have happened to lose the battle,
other than some incorrect entry on Harley's behalf. I upped the
morale of the army to do a second calc run, put the command at 49 and
still I am victorious, on paper and in arm combat calc. What gives?

#10

If there is a spell cast AND an artifact on the same character, both will
not show.
Also, Fortifications can DRASTICALLY affect combat outcomes: even the
calculator isn't 100%....

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Draugnar [mailto:Draugnar@one.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 4:58 PM
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Re: Combat simulation, I need help

What about combat artifacts? Did you double check them as they could have
hit you hard in the first round, enough to turn the tide so that
he managed
to survive with extreme losses.

-Draugnar

-----Original Message-----
From: blchezluis@aol.com [mailto:blchezluis@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 5:53 PM
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Combat simulation, I need help

--- In mepbmlist@y..., BBrunet <ditletang@c...> wrote:
> Fortifications at your pop centre in the hex would help the Dragon.
> Rumours have the Direct Bonus to Defense Constitution for the
> defending army at ranging from 10 % (tower ) to 20% (Citadel). Who
> knows, the capital may present a bonus also? Maybe the Dragon
> improved armour?
>
> bb
>

Valid viewpoint, but improved armor would have shown up on the battle
report. I am going on factual information, ie the battle occured and
am pizzed off due to the results. I can not believe that the % bonus
for a fortification can have that much of swing, especially wiht it
included in the combat calc. Going strictly off of the rulebook
stregnth and con values I should really really wipe him out. Taking
other factors into consideration lessens his loss, but it should be a
loss nonetheless. the opponents seem to have thought so, as it seems
their anticipated moves were planned as though they lost the fight.

Brian

>
> On Tue, 10 July 2001, blchezluis@a... wrote:
>
> >
> > I need some help understanding the combat system. Obviously the
> > combat simulators we all so depend on can be thrown out the
Friggin
> > window with this one. I understand randomality can occur, but
please
> > give me some feedback on what you guys think, can the combat
system
> > the game uses be that different, really and is randomality a 80%
> > swing in battle.
> >
> > The situation is this, and yes I realize there is some
randomality
> > within the game, I had a Woodmen army of 500 LI Br wpn Le armor,
600
> > Archers both 50 training rank with a 29 morale and a 10
commander.
> > The Dragon Lord had 400 Hi wo wpns, no armor, 10 training rank as
> > they were new hires, and 100 men at arms Bronze wpn Leather
armor,
> > about 25 training probably 40+ morale, and 40 command. We were
at
> > Dol Guldur. tactic used Woodies surround/ DL standard, Warm Woods
> >
> > I after the turn was run then went ahead double checked the
numbers
> > and was still getting a completely different number than Harly.
I
> > put 49 commander (doubt it turn 4 all Woodrushack did was
recruit)
> > put 49 morale as the men at arms were from the starting army and
did
> > sit a pop center for three turns. I put the DL at hated ran the
> > numbers with Dol Guldur at 100% loyalty, granted I was inteding
on
> > hitting walls. The numbers came out I take 76 % casualties DL
takes
> > 100% casualties, Harlequins numbers are I die to the man, adn DL
> > lives with over a 100 troops left as his army was not disbanded.
How
> > does this occur, after doing hand calculations based off of the
> > rulebook I still should have kicked the DL's butt. I can't
> > understand how the combat could have gone so askew. This was a
game
> > breaking combat, Bain with a 165 command was there to threaten,
the
> > issue was going to be settled, assasins trying to kill Bain in
his
> > own pop were going to have a harder time of it. What kind of
> > randomality was this. Woodrushack had to lose only 80.1% of his
> > troops to disband, is Harley goign to tell me in this situation I
> > couldn't do 80.1% casualties. I thought of weapons and spells,
went
> > back looked none of the above were took place. Heck we knew were
> > Celhdring, Orduclax, Maben, and Khamul were this turn. Only one
mage
> > left and battle report says no spells cast. i thought of
Fanaticism,
> > which does not show up on battle report as a spell but the Morale
of
> > army was not that high, they were not energetic. I do not know
what
> > to say all I can say is I hope this was an error of accident.
> >
> > Brian Woodmen 74
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> > http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com

Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

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