The game is not realistic. We're talking dragons and
orcs and some fantasy world here. What exactly is your
problem?
The game has been played, as is, for quite some time.
It works. It is becoming even MORE popular all the
time. Because it works, and because it works, there
is a pretty good dedicated core of relatively bright
people who love it and play it. People have created,
on their own, web pages, message boards, compiled
information, etc, not because the game sucked and was
not realistic enough. Because they loved the game.
Everyone can sit on a starry night and dream and wonder
about what could be, "wouldn't it be neat if.." and
on and on. Doesn't have much to do with how 98.4% of
us end up paying the bills now, does it?
So, get off your high horse. Your yelling at the wrong
people here. Try a private email to the people who may
know a thing or two (duh, Harlequin...) and ask about
what they CAN do and what they CANNOT do. Try the
folks who have the rights to the software. Try your
hand at computer programming yourself.......but please,
don't spam this spurrious drivel at the rest of us,
cause you don't see how everyone doesn't agree with
you and magically make this reality more in tune with
your realistic vision of our fantasy.
I keep hearing people argue simplicity/lack of realism vs.
complextion/more realism. Since I started the recent thread, some
people have seem only to point out certain points with out looking at
the whole.
__________________________________________________________
Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com
..magically make this reality more in tune with
your realistic vision of our fantasy.
I suggest people looking for more reality in their fantasy gaming
lives gives Legends a shot. By all means catalogue proposed changes
for a future version but lets make sure we still have 1650 to play!
ps. saying that, I'd love to see battles changed slightly, make
morale, tactics, terrain (thus troop type), weather a little (not
much) more important. Maybe play around with nation troop types
attack/defence factors - we have different strenghts/weaknesses for
boaties afterall.
pps. this has probably been done all before in the original
playtesting and ditched because it upset game balance.
First off all I am not on my high horse. I was yelling at the
Neolithic statement on armies destroyed/routed. More people have
commented that a change for army combat is needed. As for success of
the game, I have been playing since double digit games by GSI.I know
how the has been played. The game has become more popular for 3 reasons.
1)Customer Service by Harlequinn is just great. GSI had many problems
with dealing with customer complaints.
2)The fact that the pool of players is larger with the US and UK
merged, games start more frequently. That keeps players excited.
3)The fact that almost everybody has e-mail improves game turn
information sharing and that the turns arrive right away.
My "High Horse" as you have termed it only to enhance game play BUDDY.
--- In mepbmlist@y..., bgbrunet <ditletang@c...> wrote:
···
On Mon, 26 February 2001, lucasc68@y... wrote:
>
> I keep hearing people argue simplicity/lack of realism vs.
> complextion/more realism. Since I started the recent thread, some
> people have seem only to point out certain points with out looking at
> the whole.
The whole has been looked at.
The game is not realistic. We're talking dragons and
orcs and some fantasy world here. What exactly is your
problem?
The game has been played, as is, for quite some time.
It works. It is becoming even MORE popular all the
time. Because it works, and because it works, there
is a pretty good dedicated core of relatively bright
people who love it and play it. People have created,
on their own, web pages, message boards, compiled
information, etc, not because the game sucked and was
not realistic enough. Because they loved the game.
Everyone can sit on a starry night and dream and wonder
about what could be, "wouldn't it be neat if.." and
on and on. Doesn't have much to do with how 98.4% of
us end up paying the bills now, does it?
So, get off your high horse. Your yelling at the wrong
people here. Try a private email to the people who may
know a thing or two (duh, Harlequin...) and ask about
what they CAN do and what they CANNOT do. Try the
folks who have the rights to the software. Try your
hand at computer programming yourself.......but please,
don't spam this spurrious drivel at the rest of us,
cause you don't see how everyone doesn't agree with
you and magically make this reality more in tune with
your realistic vision of our fantasy.
Regards,
Brad Brunet
__________________________________________________________
Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com
>I suggest people looking for more reality in their
fantasy gaming
>lives gives Legends a shot.
Is that the one Harlequin run?
yeap. harly runs legends - I pity the GM :).
Doesn't it cost a packet?
it could. But harly has an upper limit, and you don't
have to run a huge position to have fun.
I reckon legends is a old style PBM game, ie it
reminds me of the old game 'kings' which became 'epic'
(great games actually). They use a punch card format.
Whenever I see punch card format, I say 'old style'.
Isn't is snail mail only?
No. It had its own magic box where your turnsheets go
in, and out comes a cute updated map and text. The
legends editor is a great feature of the game. Some
people have tried to do the same for middle earth (I
think you use something similar for the DS in G29).
I think legends is best summed up by the drop out
rate. 70% of people drop soon after playing. I
actually would have put the drop out rate higher
myself.
its too hard to me to play. But the one who do play
LOVE the game. I think it has more player sites than
middle earth. I think 'hardcore' comes to mind.
Or am I thinking of something else?
no. Legends is on harly's web page.
thanks
din
···
Stagoll <john.stagoll@airservices.gov.au> wrote
_____________________________________________________________________________ http://invites.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Invites
- Organise your Mardi Gras party online!
--- In mepbmlist@y..., bgbrunet <ditletang@c...> wrote:
>
> I keep hearing people argue simplicity/lack of realism vs.
> complextion/more realism. Since I started the recent thread, some
> people have seem only to point out certain points with out
looking at
> the whole.
All right, all right I started the thread bash several minutes
after my friend Lucas posted it. I trashed it simpley because of
moronic threads that would occur in response, like the one that
follows by Mr. Brad Brunet. I'm very sorry Mr. Brunet if people in
your make believe fantasy world do not have to work for a living but
in the MEPBM games that I play I would imagine that the mithril I
somehow end up with is mined out by an indivvidual not plucked off of
the internet tree you have growing on your hard drive. When the term
reality is thrown around in terms of the game it is not meant
literally, but more figuratively. In other words my friend would
like to see more realism in the game mechanics. If all your are
really worried about is fantasy, cool powers, and simplicity, my six
year old niece says that you can join her for a game of pokeman, it
sure sounds your style. Not once did Lucas ever mention that the
game sucked or that people should not play it, if he did think that
the game sucked why would he continue to play it since the double
digits of DGE, as he so loves to point out. As you can see from the
many threads that have accumulated related to the original that Lucus
posted, including the two that immediately went for my jugular for
stating that this thread should not be continued due to the
improbibility of chages occuring, it would seem that you were
dramatically out voted by the same devoted people whom you refered
to. Many of the players have voiced their opinions that the game
could and should use some changes or would be more interesting with
changes, not a dramatic overhaul as you would make it out to be. You
need not agree with all of the suggestions going around for changes,
I surely do not, but if the people that play the game are up for it
then maybe it is time for for these changes to occur. But I guess
your too busy living in your own internet fantasy, probably playing
Evercrack and Hack and Slash online to realize that there are many
more players out there that wish to see changes being made. Because
it is quite obvious that the realism of counting does not exist in
your fantasy realm, whatever and whereever that may be. So next time
your ego gets the better of you and you try to make generilized
statements for many people whom you do not know and can not possibly
speak for try using what your mother and father left right above and
between both your shoulders. Otherwise I need to get back to work
with my Logistics and Distibution company, but obviously you Mr
Brunet would not know what either of those terms mean (work,
Logistics and Distribution), because once again in your fantasy world
they don't exist.
···
On Mon, 26 February 2001, lucasc68@y... wrote:
The whole has been looked at.
The game is not realistic. We're talking dragons and
orcs and some fantasy world here. What exactly is your
problem?
The game has been played, as is, for quite some time.
It works. It is becoming even MORE popular all the
time. Because it works, and because it works, there
is a pretty good dedicated core of relatively bright
people who love it and play it. People have created,
on their own, web pages, message boards, compiled
information, etc, not because the game sucked and was
not realistic enough. Because they loved the game.
Everyone can sit on a starry night and dream and wonder
about what could be, "wouldn't it be neat if.." and
on and on. Doesn't have much to do with how 98.4% of
us end up paying the bills now, does it?
So, get off your high horse. Your yelling at the wrong
people here. Try a private email to the people who may
know a thing or two (duh, Harlequin...) and ask about
what they CAN do and what they CANNOT do. Try the
folks who have the rights to the software. Try your
hand at computer programming yourself.......but please,
don't spam this spurrious drivel at the rest of us,
cause you don't see how everyone doesn't agree with
you and magically make this reality more in tune with
your realistic vision of our fantasy.
Regards,
Brad Brunet
__________________________________________________________
Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com
> >
> > I keep hearing people argue simplicity/lack of
realism vs.
> > complextion/more realism. Since I started the
recent thread, some
> > people have seem only to point out certain
points with out
looking at
> > the whole.
All right, all right I started the thread bash
several minutes
after my friend Lucas posted it. I trashed it
simpley because of
moronic threads that would occur in response, like
the one that
follows by Mr. Brad Brunet. I'm very sorry Mr.
Brunet if people in
your make believe fantasy world do not have to work
for a living but
in the MEPBM games that I play I would imagine that
the mithril I
somehow end up with is mined out by an indivvidual
not plucked off of
the internet tree you have growing on your hard
drive. When the term
reality is thrown around in terms of the game it is
not meant
literally, but more figuratively. In other words my
friend would
like to see more realism in the game mechanics. If
all your are
really worried about is fantasy, cool powers, and
simplicity, my six
year old niece says that you can join her for a game
of pokeman, it
sure sounds your style. Not once did Lucas ever
mention that the
game sucked or that people should not play it, if he
did think that
the game sucked why would he continue to play it
since the double
digits of DGE, as he so loves to point out. As you
can see from the
many threads that have accumulated related to the
original that Lucus
posted, including the two that immediately went for
my jugular for
stating that this thread should not be continued due
to the
improbibility of chages occuring, it would seem that
you were
dramatically out voted by the same devoted people
whom you refered
to. Many of the players have voiced their opinions
that the game
could and should use some changes or would be more
interesting with
changes, not a dramatic overhaul as you would make
it out to be. You
need not agree with all of the suggestions going
around for changes,
I surely do not, but if the people that play the
game are up for it
then maybe it is time for for these changes to
occur. But I guess
your too busy living in your own internet fantasy,
probably playing
Evercrack and Hack and Slash online to realize that
there are many
more players out there that wish to see changes
being made. Because
it is quite obvious that the realism of counting
does not exist in
your fantasy realm, whatever and whereever that may
be. So next time
your ego gets the better of you and you try to make
generilized
statements for many people whom you do not know and
can not possibly
speak for try using what your mother and father left
right above and
between both your shoulders. Otherwise I need to
get back to work
with my Logistics and Distibution company, but
obviously you Mr
Brunet would not know what either of those terms
mean (work,
Logistics and Distribution), because once again in
your fantasy world
they don't exist.
>
> The whole has been looked at.
>
> The game is not realistic. We're talking dragons
and
> orcs and some fantasy world here. What exactly is
your
> problem?
>
> The game has been played, as is, for quite some
time.
> It works. It is becoming even MORE popular all
the
> time. Because it works, and because it works,
there
> is a pretty good dedicated core of relatively
bright
> people who love it and play it. People have
created,
> on their own, web pages, message boards, compiled
> information, etc, not because the game sucked and
was
> not realistic enough. Because they loved the
game.
>
> Everyone can sit on a starry night and dream and
wonder
> about what could be, "wouldn't it be neat if.."
and
> on and on. Doesn't have much to do with how 98.4%
of
> us end up paying the bills now, does it?
>
> So, get off your high horse. Your yelling at the
wrong
> people here. Try a private email to the people
who may
> know a thing or two (duh, Harlequin...) and ask
about
> what they CAN do and what they CANNOT do. Try the
> folks who have the rights to the software. Try
your
> hand at computer programming yourself.......but
please,
> don't spam this spurrious drivel at the rest of
us,
> cause you don't see how everyone doesn't agree
with
> you and magically make this reality more in tune
with
> your realistic vision of our fantasy.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad Brunet
>
>
>
>I suggest people looking for more reality in their fantasy gaming
>lives gives Legends a shot.
Is that the one Harlequin run?
** Halrequin does run it as well.
Doesn't it cost a packet?
*** Hero positions are quite playable at the same cost as a ME turn. I
generally can run (well up until the increased work load) 1 Legends position
(in depth) for 3 ME positions - cost would be similar in length of time
spent of turn, cost and fun add.
Isn't is
snail mail only?
** Nope very much email. There's a nice "little" program called LPE which
allows you to swop information with others in your "team" and to check out
all the information you have learned on a nice map. It's something that is
in the long term projection for Middle Earth.
Or am I thinking of something else? ** Serim Ral is postal only. New game
and module of that with a points created set-up coming out soon. Thanks for
the plug...
Sam enjoys it, the players are a nice bunch of lads who buy you dinner at
pubmeets... (Coffee offered but we generally have to say no thanks...)
*** (I> think you use something similar for the DS in G29).
Any chance of seeing the software you use there?
I think legends is best summed up by the drop out
rate. 70% of people drop soon after playing. I
actually would have put the drop out rate higher
myself.
** Game rules are too complex - in my spare time (cough) I was putting
together a guide for new Players - or "How not to Drop Legends on your First
Turn." If you like complexity play Legends...
its too hard to me to play. But the one who do play
LOVE the game. I think it has more player sites than
middle earth. I think 'hardcore' comes to mind.
Yes.. Seeing the way some of the Americans plan their turns (maybe not
in execution so much ) I would not be so sure. Legends allow you to
go into a lot more depth and detailed planning, counter planning etc.
So what's the difference between Serim Ral and Legends, and which is
better?
What a loaded question. Players who play SR like and it best and vice
versa. I have seen a few crossover players but mostly not. SR is an
exponential game with large armies - cute economy to play with and in the
version I run it has some hand-mod aspects. It's the game I played for
years - millions of spells - a database manager's delight.
Legends it the most in depth game I have come across - to play it well takes
a lot of effort. More stuff than you could believe possible. We're in the
middle of creating a new module (NIC) for it (a first for us) which will
come out on the webpage soon - check it out, just for the good read.
I probably shouldn't touch this but who are you anyway? I'm not Brad
but I've been reading the suggested changes with interest, then I read
yours.
If you post again, can you please change the title to read something
like "personal abuse of player XXX".
You are not adding value, neither am I, so I will stop.
..... but if the people that play the game are up for it
then maybe it is time for for these changes to occur. But I guess
your too busy living in your own internet fantasy, probably playing
Evercrack and Hack and Slash online to realize that there are many
more players out there that wish to see changes being made.
I'm currently in one good legends game (crown of chaos 10) and had a
very bad start, got attacked, and dropped another (sop 24). It does
fit the bill for a more complex simulation; in other words, if you
really want an elaborate caravan/character/military simulation there
is already another well-developed one. The team aspect is a lot
stronger in ME PBM, and the simpler rules allow you to develop more
sophisticated strategies. I find ME PBM to have some of the same
virtues as the board game diplomacy; the fun is in the interaction
with other people and realizing that getting things done takes a group
effort.
cheers,
Marc
--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Middle Earth PBM Games" <me@M...> wrote:
> >I suggest people looking for more reality in their fantasy gaming
> >lives gives Legends a shot.
> Is that the one Harlequin run?
** Halrequin does run it as well.
Doesn't it cost a packet?
*** Hero positions are quite playable at the same cost as a ME turn.
I
generally can run (well up until the increased work load) 1 Legends
position
(in depth) for 3 ME positions - cost would be similar in length of
time
spent of turn, cost and fun add.
Isn't is
> snail mail only?
** Nope very much email. There's a nice "little" program called LPE
which
allows you to swop information with others in your "team" and to
check out
all the information you have learned on a nice map. It's something
that is
in the long term projection for Middle Earth.
Or am I thinking of something else? ** Serim Ral is postal only.
New game
and module of that with a points created set-up coming out soon.
