Mr. Pickering's comments are well reasoned and I agree with them. Besides the Noldo and CL are the game's superpowers and a little degrading, by being newbie filled, allows the more marginal nations some extra breathing room.
···
From: Stephen Pickering <steve_history@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Digest Number 1160
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:05:21 +0000 (GMT)At the risk of a newbie disagreeing with the game�s deity (Clint J ) I think the Noldo and Cloud Lord are amongst the best options for new players to learn the game. As both sides have argued in the ratings debate, the idea is that this is predominately a team game. As such whatever position a new player takes they should be supported and advised by the more experienced players. Therefore I would suggest those two as start nations for two reasons.
The lessor is that their importance gives a greater pressure for teams to perform as such and support new players with advice.
More importantly, as nations distance from the front line, they are much more survivable that other nations. By definition newcomers, being unfamiliar with the system, are more likely to make mistakes, even with assistance from other players. In virtually any other nation such mistakes are far more likely to lead to immediate losses and quite possibly start a vicious circle of decline.There is a weakness for the team as a whole in this but then that will apply with any other position. Which is worse for a team, a recoverable setback for the Noldo or CL or one that possibly knocks out a front line player.
In my own case, my preference and the information I read on the web, not just Bree 1, led to me selecting the Noldo for my 1st game. I have had the advantage of a team that, after some initial problems has worked well and closely together and hope I am a valued member of it. Have made a number of mistakes, most noticeably in military movement. (Not realising the importance of food on movement, overlooking terrain and the classic confusion of east and west). However, starting with a small economy and large character cost, the Noldo will inevitably be an auxiliary military power. As such being unable to reach a couple of sieges in time made less impression on the team that if say I had been playing a major military power and fouled up there. I have been able to gain experience of this, important, facet of the game without being under pressure of a single mistake proving disasterous for either the team or me.
On the character side I think I have done OK? (Responses from the team welcome here). Possibly more cautious than others might be given I am a beginner and don�t want to make mistakes with some of the more (Guessing here as a cautious player by nature but haven�t had any members of the team cursing my actions, at least to my knowledge!) Like to think I have provided useful support to the front line nations, although, since the game is still ongoing and tight I willn�t go into detail here.
In comparison the mate who introduced me to the game has recently finished his 1st game as Cloud Lord. He was a lot less lucky in teammates. (He gave me details of events while trying to interest me in the game in the process giving me valuable knowledge of playing it!) As such, although I had less attention for it once I started playing myself I and seen his pdfs and discussed events with him so know a good bit about it). There was markedly less interaction between the players and a number of serious errors by I presume fairly experienced gamers. He made one major mistake himself in misreading the rules and thinking that if a company leader refuses challenges then other company characters didn�t need to, which lost him three agents in one turn. However, since this occurred well into the game one could also argue that his colleagues should have noticed this as pdfs were exchanged. (I�m not understating his error but pointing out that this would have been picked up in the sort of team I�m playing in). However he did play a considerable role in assisting other members of the team, doing more than many to help players in difficulty.
He actually dropped, not because of the deteriorating DS position but because of the repulsive behaviour of one of the DS players. Having mentioned that he might drop, this player deceitfully informed both Harlequin and the rest of the team that he had dropped and manouvered to get the position for a friend of his. My mate only know about this when submitting his orders and after a few unpleasant exchanges decided it was not worth continuing under such conditions. (As he says he plays for fun and because of this the game had definitely ceased to be that!
I also agree with those who argue against newbies playing neutrals. Although they might have some time before they have to face combat this is little use unless they can use it constructively. Without a knowledge of the game mechanics and reliable advice they will have little chance to make the best use of their position, nor are they likely to get the feedback necessary to learn from any mistake they made. (In many cases, without such advice they may never realise when they make mistakes).
Steve Pickering
----
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 02:30:32 +0000
From: Middle Earth PBM Games
Subject: Re: Re: Nations for new players> >1650: FP - AR, CA, DW
>
>Dwarves are a bit spread out, and need lots of
>communication. Noldo? Sinda?IMO Noldo are too important. Dwarves are safe and can't get attacked for a
long time - hence ideal for new players. I think Sindar are fine for new
players. Not essential to the FP win, but able to help out with a nice mix
of characters as well. Not the best choice for a new player.> > DS - BS, DkL, QA, FK
>
>The Blind Sorceror takes immense economic juggling. It
>starts with NO emmys, a huge deficit, few resources,
>the biggest army in the game, NO commanders besides
>the one heading the army (which needs to get moving
>instantly) and lots of mages (which take a long time
>to become satisfying).
>
>Teammates will differ on whether to use the army or
>dump it (which relieves the BlS at the expense of the
>team), and it's tough for a newbie to gauge the
>options.*** It teaches them a little about combat although I agree I have seen a
couple of new players blow up due to the strain of the BS army. Other than
that, no nation has Emis to start with, but the BS is simple to play and
reasonably safe. I think with the proviso that be wary of the use of the
army (get team advice) it's a sound nation.>The QA is tricky, too -- it's a diplomatic postion
>before anything else, and some neutrals don't give
>much credit to newbies.*** I agree, but there with the list below that's only 3 nations that I can
offer (I don't agree about the CL - too important for the well being of the
DS).>Suggested DS list: LR, FK, DkL, CL.
Clint
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Ie the new player errors was perceived to be massively detrimental to the game. It's impossible for me to judge fairly what had happened and why - no doubt it was a number of factors.