Digest Number 1162

Attempting to reply to some of the points raised. I was a bit vague last night both to avoid naming names, or say too much about an ongoing game, and because my posting was already getting pretty long.

Lawrence said:-

Wait till you're an Oldie, then see what it's like to start a game and discover that your team's Noldo or Cloud Lord rides a skateboard and wears a backwards base ball cap.

That is a point but are you sure your not confusing inexperience with incompetence? Your objection is to poor (I could use stronger language) players rather than inexperienced ones. While the latter will not play as well while learning the game there is a lot of difference. I don’t know, (or know if anyone other than the Harlequin people themselves know) how many new players are in a game but hopefully they do take steps to prevent numbers becoming excessive. (In the FP in my own game, to the best of my knowledge I an the only new starter. From what has been said that often not the case?)

You have a stronger point in that there can be differences between what is good for the team and the player but surely the important point is a balance between the two. While you have a point that Clint has a financial interest in encouraging more players he and everyone else has a strong interest in recruiting new blood else everybody suffers.

Don’t know your age but, unfortunately, I’m no spring chicken myself!

Clint said

The danger is that is it recoverable? If say the Noldo doesn't read up on the 940 428 spell and effectively the DS pick up the major items this is going to be a major swing in the game. Arguments could be made for the BS in that situation do the same and having the same impact, but with the Noldo there are many other aspects that impact on the team's success due specifically to their nation, their agent capability, economic support, artifacts (especially the Mantle) etc.

- This is a point. It depends on how badly the player and team are. If a team does not co-ordinate then he might may a serious mistake like that. If he’s really stupid he might ignore that advice. Possibly coming for a less character orientated background in my gaming my point is less valid but as I said I made a number of mistakes in movement/supply in the early turns, failing to make a couple of sieges. For just about any other FP nation, with larger forces, that could have been disastrous, both for me AND the team. I say this because forces would almost certainly larger and more important to the outcome.

Laurance said:-

I don't understand, a little more clarification please Without knowing the full story, I have to say that I actually find it

hard to have much sympathy for Stephen's mate. I can't see that Harlequin would treat a player as "dropped" if he submitted orders.

The common procedure for teams who think one player may have dropped, is to submit "contingency orders" for that nation. That is, some heroic soul does a set of orders, and asks Clint to use them "if Matey does not submit orders on time". There's obviously more to the story here, and I would not be surprised to hear that this chap who "was talking of dropping" had already missed turns, or was at least communicating irregularly. Just how "repulsive" was the player who was keen to take over his nation? There are you know, few things more annoying than a player who says he "might drop". A team cannot

plan around him. In my experience it's often used by players who are not getting their own way with the rest of the team.

reply

To give more details my friend is an experienced gamer as well as a GM is his own right. (More experienced than me and I’ve been PBMing since the mid 80’s) I only heard of events when he told me why he dropped but he had defineately not missed a turn or to my knowledge stopped being communuitive. (If fact from what I know of the game he was generally being more co-operative than a number of other players). Possibly he was unwise to tell the rest of the team he might drop, which might have raised doubts in their minds, but would you prefer a player to tell you "I’ve dropped" after they had done it? As it was he was boosted by a good turn. It was only when he submitted his orders that he discovered the player had informed both the rest of the team and Harlequin that he had definitely dropped and, not to contact him! Apparently a series of emails were then exchanged with the guilty player trying to blame him for ruining the game, despite serious mistakes having been made by other DS players, included I believe, himself earlier in the game. (Checking up with my mate on this). My friend decided it wasn’t worth the hassle. He also said that Harlequin offered him compensation (didn’t ask what I admit) but he declined as they were in no way to blame for what happened. To summarise the player did not try and get in possible alternative orders but to obtain the position for a friend by deceit (or just possibly excessive incompetence?)

Hopefully I have covered most of the points people have raised. I could well be wrong about the best startup nation but my experience so far supports my initial reading on the Noldo being highly suitable. (Although I accept not necessarily for the team!) Look forward, when this game is finished to trying one of the more challenging nations and gradually working my way up as I gain experience.

PS – If anyone is wondering why I had a J after Clint’s name in my initial posting it was a smilely in Word but got lost somewhere in translation.

Steve

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Possibly he was unwise to tell the rest of the team he might drop, which might have raised doubts in their minds, but would you prefer a player to tell you "I've dropped" after they had done it?

Well actually... the answer is probably yes. Provided that you mean immediately. There's not much more annoying than someone saying they might drop. As I said, this is often in fact "threatening to drop". More civil alternatives are:
- Sound out the team for their thoughts on a team concession, but agree to continue if the majority with to
- Say you will drop in a couple of turns, and allow time for a replacement or agreed take over.

But if in doubt about dropping, I would say "shut up" until decided. It's terrible for team morale as much as anything.

As it was he was boosted by a good turn. It was only when he submitted his orders that he discovered the player had informed both the rest of the team and Harlequin that he had definitely dropped and, not to contact him! Apparently a series of emails were then exchanged with the guilty player trying to blame him for ruining the game, despite serious mistakes having been made by other DS players, included I believe, himself earlier in the game.

I wonder who this was. There's only one player I know who might do something like this. You've got me speculating!

(Checking up with my mate on this). My friend decided it wasn't worth the hassle. He also said that Harlequin offered him compensation

Still doesn't follow. If he put his orders in each turn, and had not notified them that he was dropping, then there was no reason for him not to continue the position. Even if a copy of the turn had been sent to someone else, they only needed to say to that new person "Sorry we were misinformed, you can't have this position after all".

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

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At 15:09 09/11/2002, Stephen Pickering wrote: