Is your post meant to be a reply to my mail? If so it has a couple of problems.
a) Your making assumptions about my views which happen to have no basis in reality. I have no problem with Germany, nor anyn of our other contiental neighbours. I just happen to believe I and other people have a choice about how we are governed. At the risk of being contenitious I would say that the biggest cause of anti-EU feeling in this country is the behavoiur of those in the pro-EU camp who refuse to accept that any view but theirs are valid. I don't know whether this applies to you but it may from your comments.
b) It does not respond to the point I make at all. I recognise that it is useful to learn from different cultures but NOT to blindly ape them without consideration of the circumstances.
Steve
Applogies for anyone not interested in this debate but as you will have gathered it matters a lot to many people.
Message: 3
···
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 21:16:53 +0200
From: Gavinwj
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1767
Somewhere along the line, the concept of forgiveness and reconciliation has
failed to reach the UK's shores. France had far more justification for never
wanting to deal with Germany ever again, yet they found a way to get past
historical errors and prejudices and forge what looks to be a solid alliance
and partnership. The UK's biggest problem is that most of the population
hasn't come to terms with the fact that Britain no longer has an empire and
that it is, in fact, a small player on a large stage now. When the Euro was
being set up, the biggest fear that French politicians had was that the UK
would join in wholeheartedly: they knew (better than Blair and co,
apparently) that UK involvement would swing control away from Paris and that
any idea of having a Frenchman at the head of the ECB would be a pipe dream
for at least a decade. However, Blair caved in to the Sun and the Daily Mail
and missed a golden opportunity...
British ambivalence, or outright hostility, towards the EU is astounding and
very short-sighted. Putting yourself on the sidelines of a partnership that
is responsible for over 65% of your exports is stupidity in the extreme.
It seems that it's easier to blame the French and "Brussels" for all the
UK's woes.
Gavin
Steve Pickering wrote:
In response to an earlier comment by someone - on the previous digest, too
long to reply to. Why choose between two contiental blocs, both alien in
culture and with long histories of hostility to us? As the late, great Issac
A said in one of his novels 2 is a stupid number.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Steve, I make no assumption about your views. I do, however, respond to the
views of those who seem to follow the line espoused by the Daily Mail's
editorial writers. You did, on the other hand, bring up the question of
historical hostility yourself and which I felt needed addressing.
Neither the pro nor the anti lobby in the UK really helps its own cause. The
pro side is too scared to fully integrate itself into the process and thus
cedes power to this side of the Channel, whereas the anti side seems to
blame "Brussels" for all the ills under the sun and doesn't seem to be aware
that Napoleon and Hitler are no longer with us. Both sides also conveniently
forget that the UK has a significant presence in the EU in terms of EMPs and
civil servants. And that's where the choice about governance comes in: if
the UK's governments (of all stripes) won't admit to the British public that
EU policy is decided *with* the agreement of the UK, then the debate becomes
rather difficult.
I'm not sure what you're saying in your second point. Who mentioned blindly
aping others? Or have I misunderstood something?
Gavin
Steve Pickering wrote:
···
Gavin
Is your post meant to be a reply to my mail? If so it has a couple of
problems.
a) Your making assumptions about my views which happen to have no basis in
reality. I have no problem with Germany, nor anyn of our other contiental
neighbours. I just happen to believe I and other people have a choice about
how we are governed. At the risk of being contenitious I would say that the
biggest cause of anti-EU feeling in this country is the behavoiur of those in
the pro-EU camp who refuse to accept that any view but theirs are valid. I
don't know whether this applies to you but it may from your comments.
b) It does not respond to the point I make at all. I recognise that it is
useful to learn from different cultures but NOT to blindly ape them without
consideration of the circumstances.
Steve
Applogies for anyone not interested in this debate but as you will have
gathered it matters a lot to many people.
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 21:16:53 +0200
From: Gavinwj
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1767
Somewhere along the line, the concept of forgiveness and reconciliation has
failed to reach the UK's shores. France had far more justification for never
wanting to deal with Germany ever again, yet they found a way to get past
historical errors and prejudices and forge what looks to be a solid alliance
and partnership. The UK's biggest problem is that most of the population
hasn't come to terms with the fact that Britain no longer has an empire and
that it is, in fact, a small player on a large stage now. When the Euro was
being set up, the biggest fear that French politicians had was that the UK
would join in wholeheartedly: they knew (better than Blair and co,
apparently) that UK involvement would swing control away from Paris and that
any idea of having a Frenchman at the head of the ECB would be a pipe dream
for at least a decade. However, Blair caved in to the Sun and the Daily Mail
and missed a golden opportunity...
British ambivalence, or outright hostility, towards the EU is astounding and
very short-sighted. Putting yourself on the sidelines of a partnership that
is responsible for over 65% of your exports is stupidity in the extreme.
It seems that it's easier to blame the French and "Brussels" for all the
UK's woes.
Gavin
Steve Pickering wrote:
In response to an earlier comment by someone - on the previous digest, too
long to reply to. Why choose between two contiental blocs, both alien in
culture and with long histories of hostility to us? As the late, great Issac
A said in one of his novels 2 is a stupid number.
