email delays

Dear Clint et. al.:

I'm posting this here because I am not sure how well email is
running. I woke up this morning to find two cryptic messages from my
own server saying that the orders I sent last night for game 239
had "delivery delayed." I never got the autorespond message on them.
I did get the autoresponse when I resent them from another account
this morning (May 13), but alas, morning here in the US is not
morning in Wales. Some of my teammates also did not get autoresponses.

Anyway, I'm wondering, could you delay running the game if all turns
are not in?

BTW, I really appreciate the courteous last minute reminder I got
this morning. Neither GSI not Deft ever did that.

Mark Jaede

Are others experiencing the same email delays? I've noticed auto-
ack delays for the last two weeks, many of them longer than 8
hours. This last weekend, I sent in two turn submissions and
neither was received according to Rob. Something seems to be
causing a bottleneck on one side or the other of the pond.

Regards,
Eric

Dear Clint et. al.:

I'm posting this here because I am not sure how well email is
running. I woke up this morning to find two cryptic messages from

my

own server saying that the orders I sent last night for game 239
had "delivery delayed." I never got the autorespond message on

them.

I did get the autoresponse when I resent them from another account
this morning (May 13), but alas, morning here in the US is not
morning in Wales. Some of my teammates also did not get

autoresponses.

Anyway, I'm wondering, could you delay running the game if all

turns

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Jaede" <taurnil@y...> wrote:

are not in?

BTW, I really appreciate the courteous last minute reminder I got
this morning. Neither GSI not Deft ever did that.

Mark Jaede

We've not had any problems on a large scale. Emails get delayed "all" the time we have found.

Generally if you are unable to get a turn receipt my advice is

1) get a team-mate to send in the email.
2) Fax the turn
3) Phone it in.

It often is that we have received the turn but that receipt has bounced (we get several of those each day) or still in transit. Best advice is make sure you send the turn in EARLY... :slight_smile: With something like AM/MEOW you can just send in an update at your leisure.

Clint

···

Are others experiencing the same email delays? I've noticed auto-
ack delays for the last two weeks, many of them longer than 8
hours. This last weekend, I sent in two turn submissions and
neither was received according to Rob. Something seems to be
causing a bottleneck on one side or the other of the pond.

Regards,
Eric

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Jaede" <taurnil@y...> wrote:
> Dear Clint et. al.:
>
> I'm posting this here because I am not sure how well email is
> running. I woke up this morning to find two cryptic messages from
my
> own server saying that the orders I sent last night for game 239
> had "delivery delayed." I never got the autorespond message on
them.
> I did get the autoresponse when I resent them from another account
> this morning (May 13), but alas, morning here in the US is not
> morning in Wales. Some of my teammates also did not get
autoresponses.
>
> Anyway, I'm wondering, could you delay running the game if all
turns
> are not in?
>
> BTW, I really appreciate the courteous last minute reminder I got
> this morning. Neither GSI not Deft ever did that.
>
> Mark Jaede

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****************************************************************
                    Middle Earth Games
Mailto: me@middleearthgames.com
Website: www.middleearthgames.com

UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
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Phone Times: 10am-6.30pm UK Time (BST);5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main is engaged)
(Dial 011 44 2920 913359 if US)
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US Fax: 1-503-296-2325 (preferred)
US Phone: 541 840 4669 10-5pm PST Weekdays
US alternate Fax: 801 650 8073 Fax 24hrs
****************************************************************

I tried sending an email to me@middlearthgames.com and it was reject. Anyone else having that problem? Chris Mayse

Mark Jaede <taurnil@yahoo.com> wrote:Dear Clint et. al.:

I'm posting this here because I am not sure how well email is
running. I woke up this morning to find two cryptic messages from my
own server saying that the orders I sent last night for game 239
had "delivery delayed." I never got the autorespond message on them.
I did get the autoresponse when I resent them from another account
this morning (May 13), but alas, morning here in the US is not
morning in Wales. Some of my teammates also did not get autoresponses.

Anyway, I'm wondering, could you delay running the game if all turns
are not in?

BTW, I really appreciate the courteous last minute reminder I got
this morning. Neither GSI not Deft ever did that.

Mark Jaede

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor [input] Choose your car now!- Make -AcuraAM GeneralAston MartinAudiBentleyBMWBuickCadillacChevroletChevrolet TruckChryslerDaewooDodgeDodge TruckFerrariFordFord TruckGMCGMC TruckHondaHyundaiInfinitiIsuzuJaguarJeepKiaLamborghiniLand RoverLexusLincolnLotusMazdaMazda TruckMercedes-BenzMercuryMitsubishiNissanNissan TruckOld smobilePlymouthPontiacPorscheRolls-RoyceSaabSaturnSubaruSuzukiToyotaToyota TruckVolkswagenVolvo [input]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You have misspelt the address I think. Try adding another e after middle.

Regards

Mike

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Mayse" <oldgamerguy@sbcglobal.net>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] email delays

I tried sending an email to me@middlearthgames.com and it was reject.

Anyone else having that problem? Chris Mayse

Mark Jaede <taurnil@yahoo.com> wrote:Dear Clint et. al.:

I'm posting this here because I am not sure how well email is
running. I woke up this morning to find two cryptic messages from my
own server saying that the orders I sent last night for game 239
had "delivery delayed." I never got the autorespond message on them.
I did get the autoresponse when I resent them from another account
this morning (May 13), but alas, morning here in the US is not
morning in Wales. Some of my teammates also did not get autoresponses.

Anyway, I'm wondering, could you delay running the game if all turns
are not in?

BTW, I really appreciate the courteous last minute reminder I got
this morning. Neither GSI not Deft ever did that.

Mark Jaede

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor [input] Choose your car now!- Make -AcuraAM

GeneralAston MartinAudiBentleyBMWBuickCadillacChevroletChevrolet
TruckChryslerDaewooDodgeDodge TruckFerrariFordFord TruckGMCGMC
TruckHondaHyundaiInfinitiIsuzuJaguarJeepKiaLamborghiniLand
RoverLexusLincolnLotusMazdaMazda
TruckMercedes-BenzMercuryMitsubishiNissanNissan TruckOld
smobilePlymouthPontiacPorscheRolls-RoyceSaabSaturnSubaruSuzukiToyotaToyota
TruckVolkswagenVolvo [input]

Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
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Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

We've not had any problems on a large scale. Emails get delayed
"all" the time we have found.

Clint, you might also mention meturn.com - the confirm takes a few hours to get back, but at least you know the turn is submitted. Not sure if you want non-AM turns coming in this way, though.

You also might want to check your clock. You've managed to respond to emails before they're even written. :slight_smile:

      jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

I got the same message after sending my orders in
through automagic.

JB

You have misspelt the address I think. Try adding
another e after middle.

Regards

Mike

From: "Chris Mayse" <oldgamerguy@sbcglobal.net>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] email delays

> I tried sending an email to me@middlearthgames.com
and it was reject.
Anyone else having that problem? Chris Mayse
>
> Mark Jaede <taurnil@yahoo.com> wrote:Dear Clint
et. al.:
>
> I'm posting this here because I am not sure how
well email is
> running. I woke up this morning to find two
cryptic messages from my
> own server saying that the orders I sent last
night for game 239
> had "delivery delayed." I never got the
autorespond message on them.
> I did get the autoresponse when I resent them from
another account
> this morning (May 13), but alas, morning here in
the US is not
> morning in Wales. Some of my teammates also did
not get autoresponses.
>
> Anyway, I'm wondering, could you delay running the
game if all turns
> are not in?
>
> BTW, I really appreciate the courteous last minute
reminder I got
> this morning. Neither GSI not Deft ever did that.
>
> Mark Jaede
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor [input] Choose your car
now!- Make -AcuraAM
GeneralAston
MartinAudiBentleyBMWBuickCadillacChevroletChevrolet
TruckChryslerDaewooDodgeDodge TruckFerrariFordFord
TruckGMCGMC

TruckHondaHyundaiInfinitiIsuzuJaguarJeepKiaLamborghiniLand

RoverLexusLincolnLotusMazdaMazda
TruckMercedes-BenzMercuryMitsubishiNissanNissan
TruckOld

smobilePlymouthPontiacPorscheRolls-RoyceSaabSaturnSubaruSuzukiToyotaToyota

···

--- Mike Sankey <mikesankey@ntlworld.com> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

=====
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Not to belabor the point, following is the message i
got. I also apologize for I accidentally deleted some
emails with this subject line so if this issue had
already been solved - sorry! (email me pls though).

Message:

Your message has been delayed and is still awaiting
delivery
to the following recipient(s):

auto@middleearthgames.com
Message delayed
450 <SERAPIS.imsi.com>: Helo command rejected: Host
not found

No recipients were successfully delivered to.

···

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Not having many problems with the Middle Earth Games address (Although when
turns arrive one goes missing for about 7 Hours ?) But Yahoogroups are
definately playing silly buggers with the messages.. We are getting replies
before I have even seen the original message again. It does confuse me
sometimes........

Thomas

I had an ally in a game today not able to get his orders in,
starting a considerable number of hours before due time. If,
as the message below appears to insinuate, the problem lies
in the company's email, would it be prudent for special
circumstances to warrant special service consideration?

In other words, with a "global village" and "global economy"
based ever moreso on the Internet and email, I don't believe
"phone or fax your orders in" is as acceptable a response as
it may have been when the company ran the game on a little
Island only. Californian and, say, Australian players don't
necessarily consider this a reasonble option.

Brad Brunet

--- John Briggs <john_h_briggs@yahoo.com> wrote: > Not to belabor the
point, following is the message i

···

got. I also apologize for I accidentally deleted some
emails with this subject line so if this issue had
already been solved - sorry! (email me pls though).

Message:

Your message has been delayed and is still awaiting
delivery
to the following recipient(s):

auto@middleearthgames.com
Message delayed
450 <SERAPIS.imsi.com>: Helo command rejected: Host
not found

No recipients were successfully delivered to.

=====
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Not having many problems with the Middle Earth Games address (Although when
  turns arrive one goes missing for about 7 Hours ?) But Yahoogroups are
  definately playing silly buggers with the messages.. We are getting replies
  before I have even seen the original message again. It does confuse me
  sometimes........

  Thomas

  RD: Yes, I'm experiencing the same thing and getting really pissed off. I've got the resultsheet for one of my nations but not the other (in the same game), meanwhile, all my mates are sending me their results, and I'm STILL waiting for the resultsheet for my no 2 nation. This is REALLY annoying as the turnsheets for my second game are due tomorrow and I would REALLY like to get first responses to the first game outa the way first!

  Going back online AGAIN to see if it's there yet...
  Richard.

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Grey Squirrel
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 8:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] email delays

bgb wrote:

In other words, with a "global village" and "global economy"
based ever moreso on the Internet and email, I don't believe
"phone or fax your orders in" is as acceptable a response as
it may have been when the company ran the game on a little
Island only. Californian and, say, Australian players don't
necessarily consider this a reasonble option.

This, unfortunately, cuts both ways.

I got hosed same as you in the game, so I'm not real thrilled. I certainly hope we can get some relief. However, ME can't control any email server but their own (and, even then, their ISP runs that). If people choose to not use the meturn.com interface, there are unfortunately certain risks.

I think the best bet is to publicize the web interface, and make sure people use it for AM and non-AM turns. That would solve the email problem completely.

      jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

So if I still cant get through, the recommended course
of action is fax the orders? Clint?

JB

···

--- Jason Bennett <jasonab@acm.org> wrote:

bgb wrote:

> In other words, with a "global village" and
"global economy"
> based ever moreso on the Internet and email, I
don't believe
> "phone or fax your orders in" is as acceptable a
response as
> it may have been when the company ran the game on
a little
> Island only. Californian and, say, Australian
players don't
> necessarily consider this a reasonble option.

This, unfortunately, cuts both ways.

I got hosed same as you in the game, so I'm not real
thrilled. I
certainly hope we can get some relief. However, ME
can't control any
email server but their own (and, even then, their
ISP runs that). If
people choose to not use the meturn.com interface,
there are
unfortunately certain risks.

I think the best bet is to publicize the web
interface, and make sure
people use it for AM and non-AM turns. That would
solve the email
problem completely.

      jason

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

=====
john_h_briggs@yahoo.com

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

> In other words, with a "global village" and "global economy"
> based ever moreso on the Internet and email, I don't believe
> "phone or fax your orders in" is as acceptable a response as
> it may have been when the company ran the game on a little
> Island only. Californian and, say, Australian players don't
> necessarily consider this a reasonble option.

This, unfortunately, cuts both ways.

If it's the players fault - too bad.
If it's the company's fault - okay, we'll fix it.

Those are the black and white 2 ways. Now we get into the Grey:

If it's neither the company's nor the player's fault -

Let's not be so quick to say "too bad" for this one, eh?

I got hosed same as you in the game, so I'm not real thrilled. I
certainly hope we can get some relief. However, ME can't control any
email server but their own (and, even then, their ISP runs that).

So, the message I replied too alluded to the fact that it was their
own. Which means, it's in the black and white above and not the
player's fault...hint hint, wink wink. They pay their ISP for service.
I pay them for service. As a Middle Earth Play by Mail customer, I
don't give a rat's fig for ISP's unless it'll give me a bonus casting
Reveal Pop Centre.

If people choose to not use the meturn.com interface, there are
unfortunately certain risks.

What is this meturn.com interface? I'd love to poll the players to
see how many of them know about it.

This meturn.com interface was mentioned exactly 2 times on this list
before today.

The first was in Sam's response to a question on an Automagic
thread in March. I don't use Automagic, I don't read these threads.

The second was in the March 14 F/S where Clint has that particular
string buried within a long paragraph regarding, again, Automagic.
Again, I don't use Automagic and therefore did not read it.

I don't recall the New Policy where turns submitted in this very
particular (and archaic to do manually) format are accepted as
bona-fide turns, all others, "Eh, well, we'll see what we can do.".
When that happens and the company says "This is the game and this
is how it's played, no exceptions." then I as a consumer get to make
my free market choices. That hasn't been said, I don't see it being
relevant to this discussion.

I think the best bet is to publicize the web interface, and make sure

people use it for AM and non-AM turns. That would solve the email
problem completely.

      jason

If this interface can be used for non-AM turns, I'm in! But that's
the future, and we have a significant problem today. I'm eagerly
awaiting the final truth on what exactly has been happening to the
emails.

Regards,

Brad Brunet

···

--- Jason Bennett <jasonab@acm.org> wrote: > bgb wrote:

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

bgb wrote:

So, the message I replied too alluded to the fact that it was their
own. Which means, it's in the black and white above and not the
player's fault...hint hint, wink wink. They pay their ISP for service.
I pay them for service. As a Middle Earth Play by Mail customer, I
don't give a rat's fig for ISP's unless it'll give me a bonus casting
Reveal Pop Centre.

In that particular message, yes. For our game, it falls more into the grey area, since we don't know of any bounce messages.

      jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

What is this meturn.com interface? I'd love to poll the players to
see how many of them know about it.

It's something that we're not desiring to send out to players as a rule.
Reason being we feel that it will cause more confusion if players send to
multiple emails (based on many years experience) than one email.It's just
another email address that we use if for some reason the normal one isn't
compatible with our email address. I'll give that some thought and get back
to you on that. It's an added expense for us unfortunately.

The second was in the March 14 F/S where Clint has that particular
string buried within a long paragraph regarding, again, Automagic.

Buried might imply deliberately. I can assure you that it was not
deliberately so.

When that happens and the company says "This is the game and this
is how it's played, no exceptions." then I as a consumer get to make
my free market choices. That hasn't been said, I don't see it being
relevant to this discussion.

Isn't that in the house rules? We try to bring every bit of feedback into
consideration and make informed decisions but we do have to draw some lines
at what we can and cannot do.

In the past we used to be more loose with late turns - results of that was
that SS turns increased - we get upto around 10 SS turns a day at present.
We don't know why they are and so we implemented the policy of contacting
players (when we have time - we have limited resources - so far every time)
to do so.

A complete edit of a turn take around 4 -12 hours to do - that's including
emails and checking bits and pieces. With, say 10 SS turns that's 40 - 120
hours work extra PER day. Ie 1-3 staff members per day, upto 15 staff per
WEEK! (ie three times what we have already!) We can't afford that - nor can
you (we'd have to raise turns to ridiculous costs to cover those costs).

So we tried to implement running turns if they were late and then we had
some disreputable players use the turnsheet that they had just received to
do their orders based on that result, modify the date send etc and claim
those were the original ones. So two major reasons we can't support doing
SS turns after the event.

I'm eagerly awaiting the final truth on what exactly has been happening

to the emails.

We don't know - emails are delayed all the time. Email is NOT 100% reliable
(90-95% so for within a day I have read with some of the 5-10% going
permanently missing - hence we have the auto-receipt - if you don't have the
auto-receipt assume the worse and get your turn in). I keep warning players
about that and players always complain when someone misses a turn. Get your
turn in early....

Note in the past we have specifically brought to the players attention when
our ISP was at fault. I heard that the tornado in the US might have had an
impact on some ISPs? Who knows - whatever it was if a turn did not get to
us we advise players:

So if I still cant get through, the recommended course of action is fax

the orders? Clint - JB

1) send it again - sometimes they just are delayed - don't send every 5
minutes as that will cause more errors but be sensible. If the email isn't
getting to us there's a reason that it isn't.
2) get a team-mate to send them in. Best option here.
3) Fax them
4) Phone them
5) best to send them in on the DUE date as we have requested. There's only
so many safety measures we can do here guy without costing you an arm and a
leg.

Californian and, say, Australian players don't necessarily consider this a

reasonble option.

We have an office in the US specifically for North American players (soon to
be two). We also have a fax line, based in the US that comes direct to us
by email - deliberately set-up for such costing North Americans the same as
a main-land phonecall. Our handful of Australian players unfortunately
have the rougher end of the stick as we don't have a big enough player base
to support them as we do in Europe and North America.

So, it *is* actually kinda black and white. We are responsible for

sending our orders in a timely fashion. They are responsible for processing
them likewise

That is pretty much our policy. The actual rare number of turns that are so
delayed in email (or other transit) compared with the number of turns run
actually shows how good the system is. No system is perfect unfortunately.
We don't charge for SS turns though (unlike GSI, DGE and Allsorts) as we
realise that adding insult to injury was not appropriate.

We're hoping to bring in another set of software which will advise players
when we have their turn - or a designated player (or players) on their team
in such a case. That should reduce the amount of SS turns a lot as well.
Best bet - send them on time - ie the Due Date as that will almost certainly
reduce SS turns to nearly zero. It's in development at present though so.

Clint

> The second was in the March 14 F/S where Clint has that particular
> string buried within a long paragraph regarding, again, Automagic.

Buried might imply deliberately. I can assure you that it was not
deliberately so.

Wasn't implying anything sinister. Check the email, you'll agree
that "buried" is an appropriate description! :wink:

> When that happens and the company says "This is the game and this
> is how it's played, no exceptions." then I as a consumer get to
make
> my free market choices. That hasn't been said, I don't see it
being
> relevant to this discussion.

Isn't that in the house rules?

Ummm... I don't understand this..? IS it in the house rules?
Do the house rules say "no exceptions" anywhere, in relation to
this or any other issue? I'd like to check, but the link
on the web site Doesn't Go Anywhere..

[checked three times at 9pm Eastern...]

Brad

···

--- Middle Earth Games <me@MiddleEarthGames.com> wrote:

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

1) send it again - sometimes they just are delayed -
don't send every 5
minutes as that will cause more errors but be
sensible. If the email isn't
getting to us there's a reason that it isn't.
2) get a team-mate to send them in. Best option
here.
3) Fax them
4) Phone them
5) best to send them in on the DUE date as we have
requested. There's only
so many safety measures we can do here guy without
costing you an arm and a
leg.

Well, if email "delays" for whatever reason become
prevalent not many will likely wait until the Due
date, because sometimes it takes hours for the "delay"
message to come back and it could be too late then.

Will try again then fax.

JB

···

=====
john_h_briggs@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

If they become prevalent then I agree - at present they are not.

Well, if email "delays" for whatever reason become

prevalent not many will likely wait until the Due
date, because sometimes it takes hours for the "delay"
message to come back and it could be too late then.

Will try again then fax.

*** Better to get a team-mate.

Clint

Hey Brad,

We had a guy miss a turn too . . despite sending it in 6 times and well
ahead of due time! Very annoying.

Russ

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "bgb" <pbmnoot@yahoo.ca>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] email delays

I had an ally in a game today not able to get his orders in,
starting a considerable number of hours before due time. If,
as the message below appears to insinuate, the problem lies
in the company's email, would it be prudent for special
circumstances to warrant special service consideration?

In other words, with a "global village" and "global economy"
based ever moreso on the Internet and email, I don't believe
"phone or fax your orders in" is as acceptable a response as
it may have been when the company ran the game on a little
Island only. Californian and, say, Australian players don't
necessarily consider this a reasonble option.

Brad Brunet

--- John Briggs <john_h_briggs@yahoo.com> wrote: > Not to belabor the
point, following is the message i
> got. I also apologize for I accidentally deleted some
> emails with this subject line so if this issue had
> already been solved - sorry! (email me pls though).
>
> Message:
>
> Your message has been delayed and is still awaiting
> delivery
> to the following recipient(s):
>
> auto@middleearthgames.com
> Message delayed
> 450 <SERAPIS.imsi.com>: Helo command rejected: Host
> not found
>
>
> No recipients were successfully delivered to.
>
>
> =====
> john_h_briggs@yahoo.com
>
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