FA Imporvement Poll

OK my 4th Age poll closed today and the results are in so I'm going
to make a few cooments on the options and their popularity I'm going
to break them down into 4 different categories (1-4 votes, 5-7 votes,
8-10 votes and more than 11 votes). All comments are welcome.

More than 11 votes

···

==================
All the options below got 13 votes out of I believe 14 or 15
respondants. This category seems to be things ME Games really should
be looking at.

Regional Setups (13 Votes)
The regional setups seem popular and I understand why. When I played
previously starting in the South was such an advantage that it made
your chances of winning that much greater. The regional setups with
extra PC's for the cold northern nations has reversed that, and if
anything slightly pushed things the other way. My main comment is
that I think some of the regions cannot easily support two nations in
them and this may need looking at. This option in itself requires no
additional programming so can be easily implemented, however the
additional PC's have to be added in by hand so don't show up on
starting nations reports and the production is not always correct.

More Varied Encounters (13 Votes)
This is another popular option. It would be nice to see ME games
develop this, and my experience in the IT industry suggests to me it
would not be difficult to program in the extra encounters.

Recosting the SNA's (13 Votes)
This is being tested at present in the test games for the new format.
The SNA's have now been costed more appropriately to their value.
Problem is that there are only a few that are really valuable and
thus the choice is now restricted in terms of design. I would like to
see some of the more useless SNA's improved and their costs upgraded.
The SNA recosting would not require any additional programming. Any
improved SNA's would which is a downside.

Allowing Other Nations to Build Roads (13 votes)
This was an idea of mine that seems to be fairly popular. Since the
code is already there in the program, it wouldn't take much to raise
the limits on this so all nations can use it. I made a mistake
originally as all nations can build bridges.

8-10 Votes

This category is has things that seem desirable to most, but won't go
down well with everyone.

Making it harder to assasinate army commanders in larger armies (10
votes)
This seems to have been one of the more popular agent reduction
options and I think this may be something that ME Games should look
at generally, although this would require some reprogramming of the
assasination percentage algorithm.

Making 60 point characters on a sliding scale (9 Votes)
Again this option (currently being tested) seemed quite popular. The
original scheme was slightly abusive and this nicely closes it off
whilst still giving some advantage. Also this requires no programming.

Random Artefact list from a larger Pool (9 Votes)
This idea would mix things up and hopefully introduce a few more
interesting artefacts with abilities that seem to be lacking in FA.
This would I assume just require a bit of additional data.

Restrictions on Nations taking +20 Kidanp / Assasin (8 Votes)
This is being play tested at present, only allowing two nations (one
FP and one DS nation) to take this SNA. My main complaint about this
is that it hinders the chances of a neutral team win. This requires
no additional programming.

King and Prince Characters (8 Votes)
Again no programming required for this. I'm a little so-so on this
idea currently being tested as it doesn't add much - why not just
give the nation additional points to spend any way they like? However
it does have some roleplaying merit, so I guess its Ok.

Allowing Neutrals to start in Mountains (8 votes)
I never really understood this restriction. With bonus pop centres
being giving for placing on roads and not in mountains I think this
restriction becomes even more irrelevnat. Again no programming is
required for this.

5-7 Votes

This catagory has some support, but I suspect is in the area of
probably shouldn't be looked at, but ME Games could consider.

Allowing a Curses SNA (6 Votes)
This would require a little additional programming, but not a vast
amount and would make mages stronger in the game. However players
seem not to like their characters being killed by Agents let alone
adding mages into the mix. There was some support for this however.

Banning +20 Kidnap / Assasin SNA (5 votes)
There are already variants in play with this option, and there is
nothing stopping ME Games playing with these variants in the future.
It is clear though that players in general do not want a complete ban
on this SNA.

1-4 Votes

These are more whacky ideas that were not really taken up by players.

Make Assasinations harder in the program (4 votes)
Not the most popular agent reduction choice. This seems to have been
trumped by the sub suggestion of making it harder to assasinate
commanders in larger armies.

Play without Twin Kingdoms (2 votes)
This idea didn't really seem to have much enthusiasm behind it. I
suspect this is partially as it would remove must of the only flavour
that is in the 4th age game.

Change Kidnap / Assasinate to +10% (2 votes)
It was not a popular idea to make this SNA less powerful. I believe
most players felt that there was a better solution to the agent
menace. This would also require a minor programming modification.

Thanks Gavin (and everyone who voted). Glad that some of the changes (most even it seems) are popular. We've had a big take-up in 1000 recently (1 Grudge just about to start and 3 test games) in a very short (for 1000)

King and Prince (and Racial for that matter) - they are partially there to get more multiclass big characters at game start. In 2950/1650 you have some big characters and often find that you have lots of orders for these. We wanted to emulate this in the game. We don't want more big stat characters as such as I don't think they fit the game mechanics very well.

Regions - we generally allow a max of 2 nations in a region so there's usually space for everyone. It's actually very "easy" to sort this out nowadays. In the past we had to send out about 20 emails trying to get players to change locations (5th player @4215!). The only real problem we've found is players wanting Road only and that's usually sortable.

SNAs - we'd love to change them (including Roadbuilding) - When we get Kin Strife out check that out! :slight_smile:

Encounters do need coding - but we've got about 100 new riddles that we'd like to implement in a test game to start the ball rolling on that.

Agents are a prickly subject. I don't think there's an easy solution - on the 1000 test I've suggested some ideas for this but that's still a work in progress. Upgrading Mages in counter to that might be helpful as well.

What about Gold levels? Did that get questioned?

Clint

···

OK my 4th Age poll closed today and the results are in so I'm going
to make a few cooments on the options and their popularity I'm going
to break them down into 4 different categories (1-4 votes, 5-7 votes,
8-10 votes and more than 11 votes). All comments are welcome.

More than 11 votes

All the options below got 13 votes out of I believe 14 or 15
respondants. This category seems to be things ME Games really should
be looking at.

Regional Setups (13 Votes)
The regional setups seem popular and I understand why. When I played
previously starting in the South was such an advantage that it made
your chances of winning that much greater. The regional setups with
extra PC's for the cold northern nations has reversed that, and if
anything slightly pushed things the other way. My main comment is
that I think some of the regions cannot easily support two nations in
them and this may need looking at. This option in itself requires no
additional programming so can be easily implemented, however the
additional PC's have to be added in by hand so don't show up on
starting nations reports and the production is not always correct.

More Varied Encounters (13 Votes)
This is another popular option. It would be nice to see ME games
develop this, and my experience in the IT industry suggests to me it
would not be difficult to program in the extra encounters.

Recosting the SNA's (13 Votes)
This is being tested at present in the test games for the new format.
The SNA's have now been costed more appropriately to their value.
Problem is that there are only a few that are really valuable and
thus the choice is now restricted in terms of design. I would like to
see some of the more useless SNA's improved and their costs upgraded.
The SNA recosting would not require any additional programming. Any
improved SNA's would which is a downside.

Allowing Other Nations to Build Roads (13 votes)
This was an idea of mine that seems to be fairly popular. Since the
code is already there in the program, it wouldn't take much to raise
the limits on this so all nations can use it. I made a mistake
originally as all nations can build bridges.

8-10 Votes

This category is has things that seem desirable to most, but won't go
down well with everyone.

Making it harder to assasinate army commanders in larger armies (10
votes)
This seems to have been one of the more popular agent reduction
options and I think this may be something that ME Games should look
at generally, although this would require some reprogramming of the
assasination percentage algorithm.

Making 60 point characters on a sliding scale (9 Votes)
Again this option (currently being tested) seemed quite popular. The
original scheme was slightly abusive and this nicely closes it off
whilst still giving some advantage. Also this requires no programming.

Random Artefact list from a larger Pool (9 Votes)
This idea would mix things up and hopefully introduce a few more
interesting artefacts with abilities that seem to be lacking in FA.
This would I assume just require a bit of additional data.

Restrictions on Nations taking +20 Kidanp / Assasin (8 Votes)
This is being play tested at present, only allowing two nations (one
FP and one DS nation) to take this SNA. My main complaint about this
is that it hinders the chances of a neutral team win. This requires
no additional programming.

King and Prince Characters (8 Votes)
Again no programming required for this. I'm a little so-so on this
idea currently being tested as it doesn't add much - why not just
give the nation additional points to spend any way they like? However
it does have some roleplaying merit, so I guess its Ok.

Allowing Neutrals to start in Mountains (8 votes)
I never really understood this restriction. With bonus pop centres
being giving for placing on roads and not in mountains I think this
restriction becomes even more irrelevnat. Again no programming is
required for this.

5-7 Votes

This catagory has some support, but I suspect is in the area of
probably shouldn't be looked at, but ME Games could consider.

Allowing a Curses SNA (6 Votes)
This would require a little additional programming, but not a vast
amount and would make mages stronger in the game. However players
seem not to like their characters being killed by Agents let alone
adding mages into the mix. There was some support for this however.

Banning +20 Kidnap / Assasin SNA (5 votes)
There are already variants in play with this option, and there is
nothing stopping ME Games playing with these variants in the future.
It is clear though that players in general do not want a complete ban
on this SNA.

1-4 Votes

These are more whacky ideas that were not really taken up by players.

Make Assasinations harder in the program (4 votes)
Not the most popular agent reduction choice. This seems to have been
trumped by the sub suggestion of making it harder to assasinate
commanders in larger armies.

Play without Twin Kingdoms (2 votes)
This idea didn't really seem to have much enthusiasm behind it. I
suspect this is partially as it would remove must of the only flavour
that is in the 4th age game.

Change Kidnap / Assasinate to +10% (2 votes)
It was not a popular idea to make this SNA less powerful. I believe
most players felt that there was a better solution to the agent
menace. This would also require a minor programming modification.

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Thanks Gavin (and everyone who voted). Glad that some of the
changes (most even it seems) are popular. We've had a big take-up
in 1000 recently (1 Grudge just about to start and 3 test games)
in a very short (for 1000)

Good its always been my favourite format.

King and Prince (and Racial for that matter) - they are partially
there to get more multiclass big characters at game start.

If you want more multiclass characters can I suggest lowering the
cost of a 20/20 character. Currently it costs 600, which is the same
as a 40 point character, but far less useful at game start.

Regions - we generally allow a max of 2 nations in a region so
there's usually space for everyone. It's actually very "easy" to
sort this out nowadays. In the past we had to send out about 20
emails trying to get players to change locations (5th player @4215!)

Yes it's the road an non mountains bonus that is really focussing
placements now, which is meaning that some regions will be a squash.

SNAs - we'd love to change them (including Roadbuilding) - When we
get Kin Strife out check that out! :slight_smile:

Tell me more about Kin Strife?

Agents are a prickly subject. I don't think there's an easy
solution - on the 1000 test I've suggested some ideas for this but
that's still a work in progress. Upgrading Mages in counter to
that might be helpful as well.

I think the favoured option (in addition to the test restriction) is
to make it harder to kill a commander of a big army. At present it is
perceived to be a problem.

What about Gold levels? Did that get questioned?

No I forgot that one. I guess most people like the idea of having
more gold - but that would need to be checked.

Incidently a couple of questions whilst your on. If there is a
neutral team in a FA game how do other neutrals join that team as
there is no order to do so and no way you can later stop them
changing allegiance in the program (unless you manually catch it)?

Do the Kingdoms get the additional MT and gold as well as the other
nations or not?

Cheers,

Gavin

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, ME Games Ltd <me@M...> wrote:

> SNAs - we'd love to change them (including Roadbuilding) - When we
> get Kin Strife out check that out! :slight_smile:

Tell me more about Kin Strife?

Later... :slight_smile:

> What about Gold levels? Did that get questioned?

No I forgot that one. I guess most people like the idea of having
more gold - but that would need to be checked.

Incidently a couple of questions whilst your on. If there is a
neutral team in a FA game how do other neutrals join that team as
there is no order to do so and no way you can later stop them
changing allegiance in the program (unless you manually catch it)?

Stay on that allegiance until the turn limit passes then they become Neutral team.

Do the Kingdoms get the additional MT and gold as well as the other nations or not?

No

Clint

···

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> SNAs - we'd love to change them (including Roadbuilding) - When we
> get Kin Strife out check that out! :slight_smile:
>
>Tell me more about Kin Strife?

Later... :slight_smile:

How much later - my curiousity is piqued. At least tell us when is
the announcement going to come?

>Do the Kingdoms get the additional MT and gold as well as the
>other nations or not?

No

Sucks to be a Kingdom now. No additional PCs, no additional gold and
every one knows where you're at and wants your blood (and strategic
pop centres). I'm starting to feel sorry for Gondor's line now.

Gavin

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, ME Games Ltd <me@M...> wrote:

You do get extra gold. Everyone starts with 35000 instead of 25000.
Also, with the troop prices cut in half, the Kingdoms can start with
mighty impressive armies due to their 40k starting army build gold.

Mike Mulka

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Gavin Kenny [mailto:Gavken@btinternet.com]

Sucks to be a Kingdom now. No additional PCs, no additional gold and
every one knows where you're at and wants your blood (and strategic
pop centres). I'm starting to feel sorry for Gondor's line now.

> > SNAs - we'd love to change them (including Roadbuilding) - When we
> > get Kin Strife out check that out! :slight_smile:
> >
> >Tell me more about Kin Strife?
>
> Later... :slight_smile:

How much later - my curiousity is piqued. At least tell us when is
the announcement going to come?

It's going to be .... late....r :slight_smile: When I know more we'll get some test games set up and then see how and when... Don't hold your breath.

> >Do the Kingdoms get the additional MT and gold as well as the

> >other nations or not?
>
> No

Sucks to be a Kingdom now. No additional PCs, no additional gold and
every one knows where you're at and wants your blood (and strategic
pop centres). I'm starting to feel sorry for Gondor's line now.

We still get over-subscribed for them. I think they are still majorly over powered compared to other nations and being Neutral is a big advantage for building but it's more even.

Clint

···

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