Final Draft (I hope) of the completed PRS document

Player and Team Rating Tables

There has been a lot of discussion on the mepbmlist concerning ratings for
players. We've taken a look at this and also the emails sent to us on the
subject. Here then are some ideas.

Please discuss and give feedback on what we can do to change it (what
changes you would make and what you would keep the same), what you think of
it (good or bad), what is unclear and needs improvement and anything other
feedback you think useful. We have in mind 6 ratings: Valar, Maia, Istari,
Ainur, Council of the Wise and Nazgul. Note you don't need to do anything
to get these ratings, we'll do all the work.!

Valar - this is based on similar ratings found in other games such as chess.
The quality of both teams is taken into account, as is the split of the
neutrals. If this rating became popular, it would have a very profound
balancing effect on the neutrals, it would be rare to get games where one
side is too strong and the game ends too quickly.

Maia - designed to be like experience points. This will show how much
experience you have at playing Middle-earth. It gives more points for
winning than for losing, it also gives more points if you play with other
more experienced players.

Istari - individual success, based on ability to score well for a particular
nation relative to how that nation is normally scored at the end of the
game. In addition we'll have an overall rating.

Ainur - a rating for Grudge teams. This rewards Grudge teams who win without
losing too many nations along the way.

Council of the Wise - a player voting system. At the end of the game
players vote for their team-mates.

Nazgul - a rating of experience combined with Winning percentage.

Each of these ratings will be updated at the end of a game. For scoring
purposes the last player that ran that particular nation will be counted.
(This means that a player who runs a nation, then stops AND another player
takes over, will not be counted for any of these ratings) .

This also means that if you are in more than one game your rating could well
be different by the end of the game. In these cases it is always your newest
rating that will be used. So if you start one game with 1,500 points and
then lose 50 from another game when the game ends you will have to use 1,450
as your 'original rating'.

Any games which start with less than 20 positions will count for less and so
only earn 1/2 points. Each rating will also alter as time goes on to show a
true status of active players. The updated ratings will be sent out to
players and added to the website each month. As time passes, players who
have not played recently will find their scores dropping, whilst active
players will remain at the top of the tables.
After each month your scores will be modified as follows:

The following pages explain each rating as we envisage them. There's quite a
bit of maths involved, so you might want to take it rating by rating and
think about each before looking at the next. There are also plain English
equations and examples, which should help.

Valar Rating

There is no change in your rating if there was a draw, if you won the game
you add the change, if you lost the game you subtract the change.

New Valar Rating = Original Rating + Change

Where; Change = 45 + (TotLose - TotWin )/150

Definitions: TotLose = Total of the Original ratings of the Losing team,
TotWin = Total of the Original ratings of the Winning team

Neutrals that do not change allegiance are counted as losing players for
their rating adjustment, but not for the total of the losing team's rating.

Example
The Free Peoples win on turn 30 with 11 players on their team. The losing
team (DS) had 13 players on their team before the inevitable drops. One
Neutral dropped and was not taken up.

Free People (winners) have a rating of:
Nation Original Rating
Wood 1450
NortM 1550
Eothra 1200 (got knocked out on turn 5 but still counts)
Arth 1300
Card 1500
NortG 1524
SoutG 1544
Dwarf 1700
Sinda 1800
Noldo 1000
Harad 1200
Total (TotWin) 15768

Dark Servants have a Rating of:
Nation Original Rating
WitchK 1290 (died on turn 8)
DragL 1100
DogL 1400 (dropped out two turns before the end of game)
Cloud 1050
BlinS 1784
IceK 1800
QuieA 1500 (new player so given default Provisional rating of 1500)
FireK 1600 (ran the Fire King and the Long Rider)
LongR 1600
DarkL 1856
Cors 1900
Dunl 1243
East 1542
Total (TotLose) 19665

Rhudaur was Neutral throughout the game so counts as losing. We'll come to
that one later.

Change = 45 + (15768 - 19665 )/150
                                 = 45 + 25.98 = 71 (round to nearest)

So the Dwarf's new score is: 1700 + 71 = 1771, and the Blind Sorcerer's new
score is:1784 - 71 =1713

Note - The Rhudaur player, who remained neutral all game loses 71 points.
His previous rating does not impact on the calculation. The Fire King and
the Long Rider's score is affected only once despite the fact that the
player is running two positions.

Maia Rating

Definitions
RatNew = New player rating
RatOrig = Original player rating
TmAv = Your team's average rating at game end (worked out in the same
manner as the Valar ratings)
Score = Score for the game where S = 4 Win, = 3 Draw, = 2 Loss
EndTurn = Generic turn number the game Ended

RatNew = RatOrig + (TmAv/RatOrig) x Score x SQR (EndTurn)

e.g. On turn 30 Dark Servants win. Their Average Rating is 1400. If I am a
winner on that team and I went into the game with a Maia rating of 1250, my
new Maia Rating would be:

= 1250 + (1400/1250 x 4 x SQR30 )
= 1250 + (1.12 x 4 x 5.477)
= 1250 + 25 (rounding nearest)
   = 1275

If I were on the losing side (FP) with the same start rating (and the
average FP team rating was 1600) then my new Maia Rating would be:

= 1250 + (1600/1250 x 2 x SQR30)
= 1250 + (1.28 x 2 x 5.477)
= 1250 + 14 (rounding nearest)
   = 1264

Istari Rating

Victory Points refers to the final score of each player, not including those
gained through completion of individual victory conditions.

Each scenario will have ratings for the individual nation. So there will be
a total of 25 from 1650, 25 from 2950, 3 from Fourth Age and 5 from Bofa.
Fourth Age will be for North Kingdom, South Kingdom and normal nation.

We'll show the top 10 ratings on the website and occasional Brees. This will
be presented under the title "Top nations".

In addition there will be an overall Istari rating.

VictPoints = Victory Points scored for that nation without Victory
conditions
AveRateNtn = Average rating of that Nation at game end.

New Istari Rating = Original Rating + (VictPoints - AveRateNtn)

With multiple nations you will alter your score multiple times for that
game.

Eg Your Istari rating is 1600. A 1650 game ends with you as the Woodmen
and the Northmen scoring 1050 and 1300 respectively. If the average ratings
of Woodmen before that was 1100 and Northmen 1150 then your new Istari
Rating would be:

Woodmen = 1600 + (1050 - 1100)
    = 1600 - 50
    = 1550

Northmen with your new I Rating = 1550 + (1300 - 1150)
    = 1550 + 150
    = 1700

So your new rating would be 1700.
Ainur Rating

Grudge game - a Grudge Team is defined as any group of players which has at
least 5 members of the same team as played together before. It also has
same designated Team Co-ordinator. Members can come and go as long as 5
players of the original team remain.

If you make a change to a team roster between games you lose ( C x C )
points, where C = number of players changed. This means you lose 1 point if
you change 1 team member on the roster, 4 points if you change 2, and 25
points if you change 5 etc.

Two examples of Grudge teams: Sam Roads' 'Team GM', or Ben Shushan's 'USA1'

Grudge games can occur across the spectrum of gaming formats, with a minimum
of 10 nations filled a-side. Many players will never play a grudge game
because they prefer different formats, so they need not worry about Ainur
ratings.

There is no change in your rating if there was a draw, if you won the game
you add the change, if you lost the game you subtract the change.

The Ainur rating is applicable to the team, not the individual players.

GruOrigLose = Original Grudge rating of Losing team
GruOrigWin = Original Grudge rating of Winning team
ActWinNtn = Number of Active nations on winning side at game end
NumNtn = Number of nations per side at game start

New Grudge rating = Original Grudge rating + Change

Change = 60 x ( GruOrigLose / GruOrigWin) x ( ActWinNtn / NumNtn)

E.g. Winning Grudge team has an original rating of 1500, losing team of
1450. It started as a 12v12 game and the winning team lost 4 nations by the
end of the game so ended with 8 active nations.

Change = 60 x ( 1450/1500 ) x ( 8/12 )
= 60 x ( 0.97 ) x ( 0.67 )
= 39 ( rounded to nearest )

So the winning team would walk away with a new rating of 1539 points and the
losers would skulk off with a new rating of 1411 points.
Council of the Wise

At the end of each game players will be given the opportunity to vote for
their team-mates. Vote for players, that given their position's resources
and characteristics made the best use of that nation and best contribution
to the team by filling in the following form and getting it back to us. The
deadline is 2 weeks after the end of the game.

···

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
END OF GAME NOMINATION FORM

Dear Player please return this slip with your nomination for the players who
contributed most to the game # ______

BEST TEAM PLAYER
The players whom you feel contributed most to your team's effort to win:
1st ____________________
2nd ____________________
3rd ____________________

BEST PLAYED NATION
Talking into account the different potentials of the various nations at the
nations at the start, and the special contributions which you feel might be
expected of them:
1st ____________________
2nd ____________________
3rd ____________________

BEST PLAYED ENEMY NATION
1st ____________________

Your name __________________

Account number __________________

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

Guidelines for voting:
These are some of the ones that have been suggested as useful criteria for
voting:
Best Team Player: Co-ordination, data gathering and mapping, suggestions,
overall tactics, assistance to less experienced players, neutral wooing,
error checking, morale management,

Best played Nation: skill at playing a nation, success with nation, small
scale tactics.

Best played Enem: impact they had on us, interesting dialogue, fun I had
playing against a particular nation are some of the criteria you might want
to.
Nazgul Rating

GamStTa = Games Started or Takenover
GamWon = Number of Games won.

Nazgul rating = Winning% = GamWon / GamStTa

Eg if you had played 5 games and won 4 of them you would get a Nazgul rating
of 4/5 = 80%.

Multiple positions in games only count once. We would not include Bofa.

Monthly Adjustment

In addition at the end of every 1 month we'll run a normalising equation on:
Vala, Maia, Ainur (ie the Ainur database and Team Rating), Istari player
rating in the main databse (not the databse of Top Nations in each
scenario),

Nazgul and Council are not Adjusted.

New Adjusted Rating = [0.98 x ( Original Rating - 1500 )] + 1500

E.g. A rating of 1850 will be modified down to 1843 after one month and down
to 1836 after two months

   New Rating = [0.98 x ( 1850 - 1500)] +1500
     = [0.98 x 350] + 1500
= 1843

(1500 is the average, or the start rating. We will give people approximate
ratings when we start doing this. We'll discuss these approximate ratings
in a different article.)

****************************************************************
     Middle Earth Games
Mailto: me@MiddleEarthGames.com
Website: www.MiddleEarthGames.com

UK: Office A, 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP, UK
USA: PO Box 280, Medford, OR 97501-0019, USA

Phone times: 10am-6.30pm UK time (BST - British Standard Time); 5am-1.30pm
(EST), 8pm-2.30am (AEST)
UK: 029 2091 3359/ (029 2062-5665 can be used if the other is engaged) [Dial
Code: 011 44 2920. for US players]
UK Fax: 029 2062 5532
US: 01 503 296 2325
US: Alternate Phone & Fax: 541-772-7872 (10-5pm weekdays) (fax24hrs)
****************************************************************

Please switch the numbers in the above calculation around
before publishing in Bree or posting on web site.
It should be 19665-15768, which gives the nice positive
number you're working with.

···

--- Middle Earth PBM Games <me@MiddleEarthGames.com> wrote:

Valar Rating
New Valar Rating = Original Rating + Change
Where; Change = 45 + (TotLose - TotWin )/150

Free People (winners) have a rating of:
Total (TotWin) 15768

Dark Servants have a Rating of:
Total (TotLose) 19665

Rhudaur was Neutral throughout the game so counts as losing. We'll
come to
that one later.

Change = 45 + (15768 - 19665 )/150
                                 = 45 + 25.98 = 71 (round to nearest)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------
END OF GAME NOMINATION FORM

Dear Player please return this slip with your nomination for the
players who
contributed most to the game # ______

BEST TEAM PLAYER
The players whom you feel contributed most to your team's effort to
win:
1st ____________________
2nd ____________________
3rd ____________________

BEST PLAYED NATION
Talking into account the different potentials of the various nations
at the
nations at the start, and the special contributions which you feel
might be
expected of them:
1st ____________________
2nd ____________________
3rd ____________________

BEST PLAYED ENEMY NATION
1st ____________________

Your name __________________

Account number __________________

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see the voting has been somewhat rationalized.
What exactly do you do with the recipients of votes?
How are they manipulated/calculated and how are they
reported? Does this get turned into a 1500 based
value or do you simply list the players and their
votes, totalling them using say, 3 for 1st place vote,
2 for 2nd, etc? Will you combine the votes from
the seperate categories or detail a list of "Team Players"
and "Nation Players" seperately?

And, meanwhile - for those of us who don't expect to make
the "Top 25" or whatever, will we be provided with our
ratings on a somewhat regular basis as a point of comparison?
Each turn email along with our name/address, etc or Game End
email?

Regards,

Brad Brunet

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

END OF GAME NOMINATION FORM

BEST PLAYED NATION
Talking into account the different potentials of the various nations at the nations at the start, and the special contributions which you feel might be expected of them:

I assume you mean "taking" here. It still doesn't read well, though. Maybe:
"List the three nations on your team that you feel have been played the best, taking into account the different potentials of the various nations at the start, and the various contributions you feel are expected of them:"

BEST PLAYED ENEMY NATION

You might want to give some criteria here:

"List the best played enemy nation, taking into account the overall flow of the game and the damage and inconvenience inflicted on your team by the various enemy nations."

I don't necessarily like "inconvenience," but I want to convey a sense of the importance of delay and maneuver in the game.

    jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

Maybe this has been answered before, I dunno I haven't done any research....

What would happen to your ratings if by chance you had to drop for what I call "legitimate" reasons and you managed to get a replacement player for the game? I know, I know, everyone hates drops, but things like financial or other burdens do happen, and if you can get a replacement BEFORE dropping, should you be penalized?

Just a thought....

The flames may begin now....

Peace,
Rick Lemons
Corsairs 236

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Middle Earth PBM Games" <me@M...> wrote:

Player and Team Rating Tables

There has been a lot of discussion on the mepbmlist concerning ratings for
players. We've taken a look at this and also the emails sent to us on the
subject. Here then are some ideas.

Please discuss and give feedback on what we can do to change it (what
changes you would make and what you would keep the same), what you think of
it (good or bad), what is unclear and needs improvement and anything other
feedback you think useful. We have in mind 6 ratings: Valar, Maia, Istari,
Ainur, Council of the Wise and Nazgul. Note you don't need to do anything
to get these ratings, we'll do all the work.!

Valar - this is based on similar ratings found in other games such as chess.
The quality of both teams is taken into account, as is the split of the
neutrals. If this rating became popular, it would have a very profound
balancing effect on the neutrals, it would be rare to get games where one
side is too strong and the game ends too quickly.

Maia - designed to be like experience points. This will show how much
experience you have at playing Middle-earth. It gives more points for
winning than for losing, it also gives more points if you play with other
more experienced players.

Istari - individual success, based on ability to score well for a particular
nation relative to how that nation is normally scored at the end of the
game. In addition we'll have an overall rating.

Ainur - a rating for Grudge teams. This rewards Grudge teams who win without
losing too many nations along the way.

Council of the Wise - a player voting system. At the end of the game
players vote for their team-mates.

Nazgul - a rating of experience combined with Winning percentage.

Each of these ratings will be updated at the end of a game. For scoring
purposes the last player that ran that particular nation will be counted.
(This means that a player who runs a nation, then stops AND another player
takes over, will not be counted for any of these ratings) .

This also means that if you are in more than one game your rating could well
be different by the end of the game. In these cases it is always your newest
rating that will be used. So if you start one game with 1,500 points and
then lose 50 from another game when the game ends you will have to use 1,450
as your 'original rating'.

Any games which start with less than 20 positions will count for less and so
only earn 1/2 points. Each rating will also alter as time goes on to show a
true status of active players. The updated ratings will be sent out to
players and added to the website each month. As time passes, players who
have not played recently will find their scores dropping, whilst active
players will remain at the top of the tables.
After each month your scores will be modified as follows:

The following pages explain each rating as we envisage them. There's quite a
bit of maths involved, so you might want to take it rating by rating and
think about each before looking at the next. There are also plain English
equations and examples, which should help.

Valar Rating

There is no change in your rating if there was a draw, if you won the game
you add the change, if you lost the game you subtract the change.

New Valar Rating = Original Rating + Change

Where; Change = 45 + (TotLose - TotWin )/150

Definitions: TotLose = Total of the Original ratings of the Losing team,
TotWin = Total of the Original ratings of the Winning team

Neutrals that do not change allegiance are counted as losing players for
their rating adjustment, but not for the total of the losing team's rating.

Example
The Free Peoples win on turn 30 with 11 players on their team. The losing
team (DS) had 13 players on their team before the inevitable drops. One
Neutral dropped and was not taken up.

Free People (winners) have a rating of:
Nation Original Rating
Wood 1450
NortM 1550
Eothra 1200 (got knocked out on turn 5 but still counts)
Arth 1300
Card 1500
NortG 1524
SoutG 1544
Dwarf 1700
Sinda 1800
Noldo 1000
Harad 1200
Total (TotWin) 15768

Dark Servants have a Rating of:
Nation Original Rating
WitchK 1290 (died on turn 8)
DragL 1100
DogL 1400 (dropped out two turns before the end of game)
Cloud 1050
BlinS 1784
IceK 1800
QuieA 1500 (new player so given default Provisional rating of 1500)
FireK 1600 (ran the Fire King and the Long Rider)
LongR 1600
DarkL 1856
Cors 1900
Dunl 1243
East 1542
Total (TotLose) 19665

Rhudaur was Neutral throughout the game so counts as losing. We'll come to
that one later.

Change = 45 + (15768 - 19665 )/150
                                 = 45 + 25.98 = 71 (round to nearest)

So the Dwarf's new score is: 1700 + 71 = 1771, and the Blind Sorcerer's new
score is:1784 - 71 =1713

Note - The Rhudaur player, who remained neutral all game loses 71 points.
His previous rating does not impact on the calculation. The Fire King and
the Long Rider's score is affected only once despite the fact that the
player is running two positions.

Maia Rating

Definitions
RatNew = New player rating
RatOrig = Original player rating
TmAv = Your team's average rating at game end (worked out in the same
manner as the Valar ratings)
Score = Score for the game where S = 4 Win, = 3 Draw, = 2 Loss
EndTurn = Generic turn number the game Ended

RatNew = RatOrig + (TmAv/RatOrig) x Score x SQR (EndTurn)

e.g. On turn 30 Dark Servants win. Their Average Rating is 1400. If I am a
winner on that team and I went into the game with a Maia rating of 1250, my
new Maia Rating would be:

= 1250 + (1400/1250 x 4 x SQR30 )
= 1250 + (1.12 x 4 x 5.477)
= 1250 + 25 (rounding nearest)
   = 1275

If I were on the losing side (FP) with the same start rating (and the
average FP team rating was 1600) then my new Maia Rating would be:

= 1250 + (1600/1250 x 2 x SQR30)
= 1250 + (1.28 x 2 x 5.477)
= 1250 + 14 (rounding nearest)
   = 1264

Istari Rating

Victory Points refers to the final score of each player, not including those
gained through completion of individual victory conditions.

Each scenario will have ratings for the individual nation. So there will be
a total of 25 from 1650, 25 from 2950, 3 from Fourth Age and 5 from Bofa.
Fourth Age will be for North Kingdom, South Kingdom and normal nation.

We'll show the top 10 ratings on the website and occasional Brees. This will
be presented under the title "Top nations".

In addition there will be an overall Istari rating.

VictPoints = Victory Points scored for that nation without Victory
conditions
AveRateNtn = Average rating of that Nation at game end.

New Istari Rating = Original Rating + (VictPoints - AveRateNtn)

With multiple nations you will alter your score multiple times for that
game.

Eg Your Istari rating is 1600. A 1650 game ends with you as the Woodmen
and the Northmen scoring 1050 and 1300 respectively. If the average ratings
of Woodmen before that was 1100 and Northmen 1150 then your new Istari
Rating would be:

Woodmen = 1600 + (1050 - 1100)
    = 1600 - 50
    = 1550

Northmen with your new I Rating = 1550 + (1300 - 1150)
    = 1550 + 150
    = 1700

So your new rating would be 1700.
Ainur Rating

Grudge game - a Grudge Team is defined as any group of players which has at
least 5 members of the same team as played together before. It also has
same designated Team Co-ordinator. Members can come and go as long as 5
players of the original team remain.

If you make a change to a team roster between games you lose ( C x C )
points, where C = number of players changed. This means you lose 1 point if
you change 1 team member on the roster, 4 points if you change 2, and 25
points if you change 5 etc.

Two examples of Grudge teams: Sam Roads' 'Team GM', or Ben Shushan's 'USA1'

Grudge games can occur across the spectrum of gaming formats, with a minimum
of 10 nations filled a-side. Many players will never play a grudge game
because they prefer different formats, so they need not worry about Ainur
ratings.

There is no change in your rating if there was a draw, if you won the game
you add the change, if you lost the game you subtract the change.

The Ainur rating is applicable to the team, not the individual players.

GruOrigLose = Original Grudge rating of Losing team
GruOrigWin = Original Grudge rating of Winning team
ActWinNtn = Number of Active nations on winning side at game end
NumNtn = Number of nations per side at game start

New Grudge rating = Original Grudge rating + Change

Change = 60 x ( GruOrigLose / GruOrigWin) x ( ActWinNtn / NumNtn)

E.g. Winning Grudge team has an original rating of 1500, losing team of
1450. It started as a 12v12 game and the winning team lost 4 nations by the
end of the game so ended with 8 active nations.

Change = 60 x ( 1450/1500 ) x ( 8/12 )
= 60 x ( 0.97 ) x ( 0.67 )
= 39 ( rounded to nearest )

So the winning team would walk away with a new rating of 1539 points and the
losers would skulk off with a new rating of 1411 points.
Council of the Wise

At the end of each game players will be given the opportunity to vote for
their team-mates. Vote for players, that given their position's resources
and characteristics made the best use of that nation and best contribution
to the team by filling in the following form and getting it back to us. The
deadline is 2 weeks after the end of the game.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
END OF GAME NOMINATION FORM

Dear Player please return this slip with your nomination for the players who
contributed most to the game # ______

BEST TEAM PLAYER
The players whom you feel contributed most to your team's effort to win:
1st ____________________
2nd ____________________
3rd ____________________

BEST PLAYED NATION
Talking into account the different potentials of the various nations at the
nations at the start, and the special contributions which you feel might be
expected of them:
1st ____________________
2nd ____________________
3rd ____________________

BEST PLAYED ENEMY NATION
1st ____________________

Your name __________________

Account number __________________

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

Guidelines for voting:
These are some of the ones that have been suggested as useful criteria for
voting:
Best Team Player: Co-ordination, data gathering and mapping, suggestions,
overall tactics, assistance to less experienced players, neutral wooing,
error checking, morale management,

Best played Nation: skill at playing a nation, success with nation, small
scale tactics.

Best played Enem: impact they had on us, interesting dialogue, fun I had
playing against a particular nation are some of the criteria you might want
to.
Nazgul Rating

GamStTa = Games Started or Takenover
GamWon = Number of Games won.

Nazgul rating = Winning% = GamWon / GamStTa

Eg if you had played 5 games and won 4 of them you would get a Nazgul rating
of 4/5 = 80%.

Multiple positions in games only count once. We would not include Bofa.

Monthly Adjustment

In addition at the end of every 1 month we'll run a normalising equation on:
Vala, Maia, Ainur (ie the Ainur database and Team Rating), Istari player
rating in the main databse (not the databse of Top Nations in each
scenario),

Nazgul and Council are not Adjusted.

New Adjusted Rating = [0.98 x ( Original Rating - 1500 )] + 1500

E.g. A rating of 1850 will be modified down to 1843 after one month and down
to 1836 after two months

   New Rating = [0.98 x ( 1850 - 1500)] +1500
     = [0.98 x 350] + 1500
= 1843

(1500 is the average, or the start rating. We will give people approximate
ratings when we start doing this. We'll discuss these approximate ratings
in a different article.)

****************************************************************
     Middle Earth Games
Mailto: me@M...
Website: www.MiddleEarthGames.com

UK: Office A, 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP, UK
USA: PO Box 280, Medford, OR 97501-0019, USA

Phone times: 10am-6.30pm UK time (BST - British Standard Time); 5am-1.30pm
(EST), 8pm-2.30am (AEST)
UK: 029 2091 3359/ (029 2062-5665 can be used if the other is engaged) [Dial
Code: 011 44 2920. for US players]
UK Fax: 029 2062 5532
US: 01 503 296 2325
US: Alternate Phone & Fax: 541-772-7872 (10-5pm weekdays) (fax24hrs)
****************************************************************

I was under the impression that the main PR's take into
account the previous PR's of the players in the game when
the game ends.

The last person to play an abandoned nation will have his
score adjusted if that nation is amongst the losers, no?

The last person to play an abandoned nation will NOT have
his score adjusted if that nation is amongst the winners, no?

Credit to the winners who are still competing, and shame on
the losers in their entirety...

If you replace yourself as the player for that nation, then
you are not included in these results.

There is a calculation of Games Finished. Straight %. I do
not believe there is any possible fair methodology to "adjust"
this for "legitimate" drops/transfers. It's not exactly a
"penalty" though.

Brad

--- "mepbm236 <mepbm236@yahoo.com>" <mepbm236@yahoo.com> wrote: > Maybe
this has been answered before, I dunno I haven't done any

···

research....

What would happen to your ratings if by chance you had to drop for
what I call "legitimate" reasons and you managed to get a replacement
player for the game? I know, I know, everyone hates drops, but
things like financial or other burdens do happen, and if you can get
a replacement BEFORE dropping, should you be penalized?

Just a thought....

The flames may begin now....

Peace,
Rick Lemons
Corsairs 236

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Middle Earth PBM Games" <me@M...>
wrote:
> Player and Team Rating Tables
>
> There has been a lot of discussion on the mepbmlist concerning
ratings for
> players. We've taken a look at this and also the emails sent to us
on the
> subject. Here then are some ideas.
>
> Please discuss and give feedback on what we can do to change it
(what
> changes you would make and what you would keep the same), what you
think of
> it (good or bad), what is unclear and needs improvement and
anything other
> feedback you think useful. We have in mind 6 ratings: Valar,
Maia, Istari,
> Ainur, Council of the Wise and Nazgul. Note you don't need to do
anything
> to get these ratings, we'll do all the work.!
>
> Valar - this is based on similar ratings found in other games such
as chess.
> The quality of both teams is taken into account, as is the split of
the
> neutrals. If this rating became popular, it would have a very
profound
> balancing effect on the neutrals, it would be rare to get games
where one
> side is too strong and the game ends too quickly.
>
> Maia - designed to be like experience points. This will show how
much
> experience you have at playing Middle-earth. It gives more points
for
> winning than for losing, it also gives more points if you play with
other
> more experienced players.
>
> Istari - individual success, based on ability to score well for a
particular
> nation relative to how that nation is normally scored at the end of
the
> game. In addition we'll have an overall rating.
>
> Ainur - a rating for Grudge teams. This rewards Grudge teams who
win without
> losing too many nations along the way.
>
> Council of the Wise - a player voting system. At the end of the
game
> players vote for their team-mates.
>
> Nazgul - a rating of experience combined with Winning percentage.
>
> Each of these ratings will be updated at the end of a game. For
scoring
> purposes the last player that ran that particular nation will be
counted.
> (This means that a player who runs a nation, then stops AND another
player
> takes over, will not be counted for any of these ratings) .
>
> This also means that if you are in more than one game your rating
could well
> be different by the end of the game. In these cases it is always
your newest
> rating that will be used. So if you start one game with 1,500
points and
> then lose 50 from another game when the game ends you will have to
use 1,450
> as your 'original rating'.
>
> Any games which start with less than 20 positions will count for
less and so
> only earn 1/2 points. Each rating will also alter as time goes on
to show a
> true status of active players. The updated ratings will be sent out
to
> players and added to the website each month. As time passes,
players who
> have not played recently will find their scores dropping, whilst
active
> players will remain at the top of the tables.
> After each month your scores will be modified as follows:
>
> The following pages explain each rating as we envisage them.
There's quite a
> bit of maths involved, so you might want to take it rating by
rating and
> think about each before looking at the next. There are also plain
English
> equations and examples, which should help.
>
> Valar Rating
>
> There is no change in your rating if there was a draw, if you won
the game
> you add the change, if you lost the game you subtract the change.
>
> New Valar Rating = Original Rating + Change
>
> Where; Change = 45 + (TotLose - TotWin )/150
>
> Definitions: TotLose = Total of the Original ratings of the Losing
team,
> TotWin = Total of the Original ratings of the Winning team
>
> Neutrals that do not change allegiance are counted as losing
players for
> their rating adjustment, but not for the total of the losing team's
rating.
>
> Example
> The Free Peoples win on turn 30 with 11 players on their team. The
losing
> team (DS) had 13 players on their team before the inevitable drops.
One
> Neutral dropped and was not taken up.
>
> Free People (winners) have a rating of:
> Nation Original Rating
> Wood 1450
> NortM 1550
> Eothra 1200 (got knocked out on turn 5 but still counts)
> Arth 1300
> Card 1500
> NortG 1524
> SoutG 1544
> Dwarf 1700
> Sinda 1800
> Noldo 1000
> Harad 1200
> Total (TotWin) 15768
>
> Dark Servants have a Rating of:
> Nation Original Rating
> WitchK 1290 (died on turn 8)
> DragL 1100
> DogL 1400 (dropped out two turns before the end of game)
> Cloud 1050
> BlinS 1784
> IceK 1800
> QuieA 1500 (new player so given default Provisional rating of
1500)
> FireK 1600 (ran the Fire King and the Long Rider)
> LongR 1600
> DarkL 1856
> Cors 1900
> Dunl 1243
> East 1542
> Total (TotLose) 19665
>
> Rhudaur was Neutral throughout the game so counts as losing. We'll
come to
> that one later.
>
> Change = 45 + (15768 - 19665 )/150
> = 45 + 25.98 = 71 (round to
nearest)
>
> So the Dwarf's new score is: 1700 + 71 = 1771, and the Blind
Sorcerer's new
> score is:1784 - 71 =1713
>
> Note - The Rhudaur player, who remained neutral all game loses 71
points.
> His previous rating does not impact on the calculation. The Fire
King and
> the Long Rider's score is affected only once despite the fact that
the
> player is running two positions.
>
> Maia Rating
>
> Definitions
> RatNew = New player rating
> RatOrig = Original player rating
> TmAv = Your team's average rating at game end (worked out in the
same
> manner as the Valar ratings)
> Score = Score for the game where S = 4 Win, = 3 Draw, = 2 Loss
> EndTurn = Generic turn number the game Ended
>
> RatNew = RatOrig + (TmAv/RatOrig) x Score x SQR (EndTurn)
>
> e.g. On turn 30 Dark Servants win. Their Average Rating is 1400.
If I am a
> winner on that team and I went into the game with a Maia rating of
1250, my
> new Maia Rating would be:
>
> = 1250 + (1400/1250 x 4 x SQR30 )
> = 1250 + (1.12 x 4 x 5.477)
> = 1250 + 25 (rounding nearest)
> = 1275
>
> If I were on the losing side (FP) with the same start rating (and
the
> average FP team rating was 1600) then my new Maia Rating would be:
>
> = 1250 + (1600/1250 x 2 x SQR30)
> = 1250 + (1.28 x 2 x 5.477)
> = 1250 + 14 (rounding nearest)
> = 1264
>
> Istari Rating
>
> Victory Points refers to the final score of each player, not
including those
> gained through completion of individual victory conditions.
>
> Each scenario will have ratings for the individual nation. So
there will be
> a total of 25 from 1650, 25 from 2950, 3 from Fourth Age and 5 from
Bofa.
> Fourth Age will be for North Kingdom, South Kingdom and normal
nation.
>
> We'll show the top 10 ratings on the website and occasional Brees.
This will
> be presented under the title "Top nations".
>
>
> In addition there will be an overall Istari rating.
>
> VictPoints = Victory Points scored for that nation without Victory
> conditions
> AveRateNtn = Average rating of that Nation at game end.
>
> New Istari Rating = Original Rating + (VictPoints - AveRateNtn)
>
> With multiple nations you will alter your score multiple times for
that
> game.
>
> Eg Your Istari rating is 1600. A 1650 game ends with you as the
Woodmen
> and the Northmen scoring 1050 and 1300 respectively. If the
average ratings
> of Woodmen before that was 1100 and Northmen 1150 then your new
Istari
> Rating would be:
>
> Woodmen = 1600 + (1050 - 1100)
> = 1600 - 50
> = 1550
>
> Northmen with your new I Rating = 1550 + (1300 - 1150)
> = 1550 + 150
> = 1700
>
> So your new rating would be 1700.
> Ainur Rating
>
> Grudge game - a Grudge Team is defined as any group of players
which has at
> least 5 members of the same team as played together before. It
also has
> same designated Team Co-ordinator. Members can come and go as long
as 5
> players of the original team remain.
>
> If you make a change to a team roster between games you lose ( C x
C )
> points, where C = number of players changed. This means you lose 1
point if
> you change 1 team member on the roster, 4 points if you change 2,
and 25
> points if you change 5 etc.
>
> Two examples of Grudge teams: Sam Roads' 'Team GM', or Ben
Shushan's 'USA1'
>
> Grudge games can occur across the spectrum of gaming formats, with
a minimum
> of 10 nations filled a-side. Many players will never play a grudge
game
> because they prefer different formats, so they need not worry about
Ainur
> ratings.
>
> There is no change in your rating if there was a draw, if you won
the game
> you add the change, if you lost the game you subtract the change.
>
> The Ainur rating is applicable to the team, not the individual
players.
>
> GruOrigLose = Original Grudge rating of Losing team
> GruOrigWin = Original Grudge rating of Winning team
> ActWinNtn = Number of Active nations on winning side at game end
> NumNtn = Number of nations per side at game start
>
> New Grudge rating = Original Grudge rating + Change
>
> Change = 60 x ( GruOrigLose / GruOrigWin) x ( ActWinNtn / NumNtn)
>
> E.g. Winning Grudge team has an original rating of 1500, losing
team of
> 1450. It started as a 12v12 game and the winning team lost 4
nations by the
> end of the game so ended with 8 active nations.
>
> Change = 60 x ( 1450/1500 ) x ( 8/12 )
> = 60 x ( 0.97 ) x ( 0.67 )
> = 39 ( rounded to nearest )
>
> So the winning team would walk away with a new rating of 1539
points and the
> losers would skulk off with a new rating of 1411 points.
> Council of the Wise
>
> At the end of each game players will be given the opportunity to
vote for
> their team-mates. Vote for players, that given their position's
resources
> and characteristics made the best use of that nation and best
contribution
> to the team by filling in the following form and getting it back to
us. The
> deadline is 2 weeks after the end of the game.
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ------------------------------------------------
> END OF GAME NOMINATION FORM
>
> Dear Player please return this slip with your nomination for the
players who
> contributed most to the game # ______
>
> BEST TEAM PLAYER
> The players whom you feel contributed most to your team's effort to
win:
> 1st ____________________
> 2nd ____________________
> 3rd ____________________
>
> BEST PLAYED NATION
> Talking into account the different potentials of the various
nations at the
> nations at the start, and the special contributions which you feel
might be
> expected of them:
> 1st ____________________
> 2nd ____________________
> 3rd ____________________
>
> BEST PLAYED ENEMY NATION
> 1st ____________________
>
> Your name __________________
>
> Account number __________________
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Guidelines for voting:
> These are some of the ones that have been suggested as useful
criteria for
> voting:
> Best Team Player: Co-ordination, data gathering and mapping,
suggestions,
> overall tactics, assistance to less experienced players, neutral
wooing,
> error checking, morale management,
>
> Best played Nation: skill at playing a nation, success with nation,
small
> scale tactics.
>
> Best played Enem: impact they had on us, interesting dialogue, fun
I had
> playing against a particular nation are some of the criteria you
might want
> to.
> Nazgul Rating
>
> GamStTa = Games Started or Takenover
> GamWon = Number of Games won.
>
> Nazgul rating = Winning% = GamWon / GamStTa
>
> Eg if you had played 5 games and won 4 of them you would get a
Nazgul rating
> of 4/5 = 80%.
>
> Multiple positions in games only count once. We would not include
Bofa.
>
>
> Monthly Adjustment
>
> In addition at the end of every 1 month we'll run a normalising
equation on:
> Vala, Maia, Ainur (ie the Ainur database and Team Rating), Istari
player
> rating in the main databse (not the databse of Top Nations in each
> scenario),
>
> Nazgul and Council are not Adjusted.
>
> New Adjusted Rating = [0.98 x ( Original Rating - 1500 )] + 1500
>
> E.g. A rating of 1850 will be modified down to 1843 after one month
and down
> to 1836 after two months
>
> New Rating = [0.98 x ( 1850 - 1500)] +1500
> = [0.98 x 350] + 1500
> = 1843
>
> (1500 is the average, or the start rating. We will give people
approximate
> ratings when we start doing this. We'll discuss these approximate
ratings
> in a different article.)
>
>
> ****************************************************************
> Middle Earth Games
> Mailto: me@M...
> Website: www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
> UK: Office A, 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP, UK
> USA: PO Box 280, Medford, OR 97501-0019, USA
>
> Phone times: 10am-6.30pm UK time (BST - British Standard Time);
5am-1.30pm
> (EST), 8pm-2.30am (AEST)
> UK: 029 2091 3359/ (029 2062-5665 can be used if the other is
engaged) [Dial
> Code: 011 44 2920. for US players]
> UK Fax: 029 2062 5532
> US: 01 503 296 2325
> US: Alternate Phone & Fax: 541-772-7872 (10-5pm weekdays)
(fax24hrs)
> ****************************************************************

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just what exactly is a PR anyway?(my guess: Player
Rating???)

and who cares about it?
are there games that start up that only allow people
in with certain PRs?
If PR is % won/played, then if you play one and lose,
your PR is 0! Well, that doesn't mean you'll be a bad
player in the middle or long run... Most people lose
the first time they play any game.

I'm confused about this PR thing. Is there a web page
somewhere that defines it? I couldn't locate it, but
admittedly, I only did a weak search.

Dave

···

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We've nearly done the programming for it so we'll get in touch with all players about it soon rather than open the debate all over again... :slight_smile:

Clint

···

At 23:22 20/01/03, you wrote:

just what exactly is a PR anyway?(my guess: Player
Rating???)

and who cares about it?
are there games that start up that only allow people
in with certain PRs?
If PR is % won/played, then if you play one and lose,
your PR is 0! Well, that doesn't mean you'll be a bad
player in the middle or long run... Most people lose
the first time they play any game.

I'm confused about this PR thing. Is there a web page
somewhere that defines it? I couldn't locate it, but
admittedly, I only did a weak search.

Dave

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
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****************************************************************
                    Middle Earth Games
Mailto: me@middleearthgames.com
Website: www.middleearthgames.com

UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
US: PO Box 280, Medford, Oregon OR97501-0019 USA

Phone Times: 10am-6.30pm UK Time (BST);5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main is engaged)
(Dial 011 44 2920 913359 if US)
UK Fax: 029 2062 5532 24 hours
US Fax: 1-503-296-2325
US Alternate: Phone and Fax: 541 772 7872 10-5pm PST Weekdays, Fax 24hrs
****************************************************************