Four Nation 1650 GB

General
#1

I realise that this has probably been debated over before but I still think that this would be a good variant, allowing a small team of up to 4 players to communicate and work together in a regional combat but avoiding some of the problems 12 v 12 or 25 nation games.

Surely there are 5 other players/teams of players that would be willing to play this variant?

In addition to the normal tri-nation GB rules (Diplo on Turn 0 and no SS allowed, game does not run until all orders are in), I would suggest the following additional changes to normal GB:

Diplos are mandatory and can be upto 120 words. Not sending a Diplo hurts your side too much, it should be a duty not an option. ME Games to send reminders of Diplo turns and not to run the turn until all the turns and all the diplos are in.

Let me know whether you would play this variant and what you think the teams should be?

Here is my suggestion:
FP: 4/5/8/10, 1/2/3/9 and 6/7/22/24
DS: 11/12/19/23, 16/17/18/21 and 13/14/15/20

Cheers,

Mike

#2

I probably would, but it seems to me that 13, 16, 18 and 20 should be the Mordor DS quad and the southern DS’s would be 14, 15, 17, 21.

Did you mean to put the Duns on the DS and Rhudaur on the FP? I’m not sure the WK or the Duns would last very long that way.

#3

DS 11, 24, 12, 19 - North
DS 18, 16, 13, 20 - Mordor
DS 17, 22, 14, 15 - South

FP are a little trickier as you can’t so easily draw 2 lines across the map geographically.

For the West, you’d try: 10, 4, 5, 23
Then you can make a human front against Mordor; 3, 6, 7, 21
Leaving the rest: 8, 9, 1, 2 for a Middle grouping.

#4

Yes sorry - I swpped 23 and 24 around (can never remember which is which)!

I think you have put 21 instead of 22 in the above!

#5

The problem with the human front is that there is no agent support in the quad (except starting with the ROI). This grouping gets a massive kicking in the middle game, which is why I suggest adding the Duns in with SG, NG and Harad.

Also I think that it is important to keep the CL away from 12 and 17 (the double scout nations) otherwise the combo is just too powerful.

#6

I prefer traditional gunboats without any diplo at all and without special rules like “No Offensive Actions Against Characters” , actually you cant steal on a ally camp in order to improve your skill agent and noldor cant sabotate cardolan’s harbours.
I would sign for a game without any communication and with a little risk of “friendly fire”

#7

For a 4 nation combo, I’d suggest:

1, 4, 5, 10
2, 3, 6, 23
7, 8, 9, 22

If you put 8 with the NW combo, they will tear through 11/24 like a hot knife through butter.
It won’t even be a fight, it’ll just be a slaugther.

The Frontal combo have 23 to boost them against Mordor agents, but they will still have to work quite hard.

Finally the last combo gets Sinda navy, and it’s agents, to help vs. CL.
Dwarves and Sinda will work together to get rid of DL.

11, 12, 20, 24
13, 14, 16, 18
15, 17, 19, 21

DS are harder to balance, mainly due to CL, because either you give him scout, or agent arts… both makes CL extremely lethal.

Now NW combo gets more military power, but will lack agent power.
This should though be balanced out, by WM being fairly isolated (from the rest of his combo), so WK/DL can do something to hit that hard.
The combo should recover a large number of arts, and starts with a curse art, and mages that could form curse group turn 5 or so.

Mordor combo gets CL, so should be quite hard to break through Mordor.

Finally south combo gets BS, which helps give them access to art recovery, and in turn curses. Also puts all DS navies on one combo… :slight_smile:

#8

I would be willing to give 4 nation gun-boat a try.

Mike Bel…

#9

Even allowing kidnapping & assassination? Gotta draw the line somewhere.

#10

I like the freep breakdown on yours the best – yours spreads the wealthy nation around some to help the group out and not have to depend on allies in other groupings sending you gold. The evil break down might be hard pressed for gold on some of those groupings !! But depending on when this is to start and finances are ok – would be willing to play this as I am enjoying the 3 nation gunboat !!

Mike

#11

GREAT!!! That’s two (since Mike Hornung and I would make one team). Just need four more. Any takers?

#12

You keeping the forts on 1910 and 4017 ??

#13

I think all of the DS combo’s has good access to gold, and it’s hard to fiddle much around… And as I see it, it’ll mainly be first combo that should be struggling.

I would sign up for such one as well :slight_smile:
Love pretty much everything that even smells slightly like GB’s…

/Martin

#14

Doug already talked me into this format so I guess Doug and I are taking a team between us :o

I would be interested in taking one of the DS teams.

Kevin

#15

I like the DS combos as suggested.

I still think that whoever plays 2/3/6/23 needs a stern constitution as you face the brunt of Mordor in the middle game and would rather see NG together with SG and Harad so that this quad needs to focus on how much to send South and how much into Mordor but if at least one of you are willing to put it down as a choice then I am happy to go with these Quads.

Definitely agree that the Forts should stay at 1910 and 4017 as well as the usual CL upgrade to an MT/downgrade to a village instead of two Towns since both of these make total sense in GB.

I think that with four nations in each combo that allows a LOT of offensive actions (any characters on any of your PCs are fair game for anything provided that you do not know that they are on your side). Therefore I suggest that we leave the GB rules as they are to save the effort of having to rewrite them in detail.

So I think the only thing left to decide is on the Diplos - I am strongly in favour of making them mandatory and getting the reminders since the effect of missing a Diplo is huge (particularly where you are only getting two diplos from team-mates!).

I think that longer is necessary given that you are covering four nations - is everybody happy with up to 120 words?

Let me know and I will get this listed :slight_smile:

Mike

#16

I don’t think you can make diploes mandatory…

I strive to diplo every turn, but holding back a turn till everyone diploes, means you get “DL here”… :slight_smile:

Also 120 words is a novel! 30 words is standard, so 50 words should more than sufice for playing 4 nations.

Regarding the 2/3/6/23 constitution, then the combo in 3 nation comboes was 2/3/6, and they seem to do okay?
The combo has quite a lot to work with actually.
It gets the strongest starting military, and it gets 2 nations with atractive nation powers (40 emmis, +/- 20% sell/buy, 40 agent, double scout).

But yes, surviving the middle will be rough vs. DS, but it’s allways been so?
I think it’ll be hard to put another nation in that combo, and still retain it’s biggest asset, the ability to throw tons of troops at Mordor.

#17

I’ve played 2,3,6 and felt it was viable (though dependent on the other trios to take some pressure off, but with 23 and some more realistic expectations than I had, it should be fine).

I am also fine with 120 words and think 60 should be minimum (you get 30 in a 2 nation GB, so why not at least 60 with 4 nations?).

Mike - I have already asked ME for a spot in this game but have not submitted nation requests until you finalize them.

#18

My normal teamates are all filled up with other games. I’d like to split the quad with 1 or 3 other players. If anyone wants to split a quad with me, I have already told ME that I am in. (no preferences, yet submitted). Please feel free to email me at: mbelancio at everestkc dot net.

Mike Bel…

#19

Mike, 120 words seems way to much, how about 60?

#20

If you want a minimum, then you should say 20 words.
And maximum should be 50 or 60.

One of the fun things in GB’s is to say what you need in 30 words every 5th turn. So you need to be very creative, and select your wording carefully.

120 words is not carefull anymore, it’s blabber :slight_smile: