FS 19th March - please read...

Hello Everyone

GSI Takeover:

The big news is that we're looking to buy out GSI. The present situation
is that GSI are not able to support and improve the game. We feel that the
only way to move forward, update the game and possibly offer more scenarios
and variants is to buy them.

This will really stretch us monetarily so we're looking for players to help
support us. We're offering a bonus of 4 free turns if you're able to send
us �500, or US$900 or AU$1200. If you can afford to send us more than that,
we'll give the same bonus for each �500/US$900/AU$1200.

As always, we offer a no quibble refund policy, so you can ask for your
money back at any time, but we would then take back any free turns you had
earned!

If you want to help us to help move the game forward then get in touch,
whether or not this means financial investment and support, technical
support or even just a "best of luck"! It's a big move for us and we're
pretty sure we can do good things for the game with your support and input.

In the past we've been very successful doing deals like this, I think this
will be the 10th PBM firm we've bought. An example of our success is that
when we took over Allsorts, they had 17 games running - we brought that up
to 28. More games are being played and more players are presently playing
Middle Earth with us than ever played with DGE and Allsorts, and we are
close to the record number of players playing Middle Earth.

10th Anniversary - Harlequin games celebrates 10 years of gaming end of
March early April. Whew - who'd have thought it! :slight_smile:

Price Changes: Our yearly review of our pricing structure is below - we'll
be implementing these on Monday 5th April onwards. Other prices stay the
same. (Check House rules for details - feel free to request a copy).

UK, Europe and Rest of the World prices:
AMEOW turn (ie you send in your turn using AM or MEOW with the correct
attachment): �4.40
Turn Fee Postal (Ie you receive your turn by post): �4.90
Turn Fee Email (Ie you send in your turn by email, NOT using AM or MEOW):
�4.60
Set-up in a game (base cost): �7.00

Australasia:
AMEOW turn (ie you send in your turn using AM or MEOW with the correct
attachment): AU$9.90
Turn Fee Email (Ie you send in your turn by email, NOT using AM or MEOW):
AU$10.90
Set-up in a game (base cost): AU$16.50
Reprint: AU$4.50
Map: AU$16

North America:
AMEOW turn (ie you send in your turn using AM or MEOW with the correct
attachment):US$7.60
Turn Fee Postal (Ie you receive your turn by post): US$8.30
Turn Fee Email (Ie you send in your turn by email, NOT using AM or MEOW):
US$7.90
Set-up in a game (base cost): US$12.90
Map: US$9.50

(For reference turnfees for North America have been �3.60 and this brings it
back to around �4.20 for a AMEOW turn. Also NA don't get the 5% CCard
charge that UK based players do due to the difficulty of getting payment to
us by Cheque.)

The following new games are filling up.
2950 2wk [Game 237] Gunboat: 4 duo of nations available. [12/3/04) Clint
playing
2950 2wk [Game 236]: 5 nations available. [30/1/04) (FilledLast:2 mth 2wks )
1650 2wk [Game 50]: 15 nations available.[9/3/04] (FilledLast: 31days [14d,
19d])
1000 2wk [Game 142]: 17 nations available [29/1/04] Game format not
decided (FilledLast:2mt 9 dys)
1000 2wk [Game 141] Gunboat - Regional Set-up; 5+1 King set-ups available.
Play a Kingdom OR 2 duo of nations [29/1/03] [6 days to fill first game -
forever for this one!)

Grudge Games we need opposition for:
1650 Brad Jenison FP 12v
2950 Wotr Var Paul Sacco FP 12v12 Dun/WW FP, Cor/KE DS

Setting up in a game:

When I get all 25 nations into the game I will allocate you your choice of
nation from the list of nations that you have sent me - please send multiple
nation choices as this helps to get everyone their 1st or 2nd choices - if
too many choose only 1 nation the system falls apart. All nations are
potentially available until I set up the game.

Descriptions of the type of game follow - please check this when contacting
me with regards playing in that game. When joining with allies please tell
me so that I can help out. You cannot join 1650/2950 games as Neutral with
an aligned or Neutral ally.

Up to 2 nation game: You can play one or two Aligned nations, or one Neutral
nation.
2 nation game: You must play two nations.

Note please ask for variant games we can try to get you opposition for them
if you are interested - mostly Grudge teams though - if I get 10 players for
any single type of game then I will put it up for general availability below
and push it, always check the rules for variant games;

I have drop-outs available - don't forget you get a free turn for taking
these up...
E [Early] = 0-10 turn, M [Midgame]= 11-20, L [Late game] = 21+ [A= Aligned
if a Neutral, N= not aligned if a Neutral, P = Postal and Email game, G=
Grudge, 1w = 1week game, 3w = 3week game]
Bofa: None
1000: None
2950: None
1650: SouGon (m)

Some GB duos available as well - ask for more information. (1650).

(Please note past turns for all these nations are available) Ask for
specifics on what is available.

Thanks
Clint

Check out our Message Board: www.halo5.net/meforums and the "mepbmlist" via
http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

···

************************************
           ME Games Ltd
Mailto: me@middleearthgames.com
Website: www.middleearthgames.com

UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
US: EpicMail, PO Box 801, Wexford PA 15090-0801

Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)
UK Fax: 029 2062 5532 (24 hours)
US Fax: 1-503-296-2325 (preferred)
US Phone: 412)302-2505 EST Weekdays
US alternate Fax: 801 650 8073 Fax 24hrs

Here's what you'll need then:

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/2nded.htm

:slight_smile: Good luck.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 16:37 19/03/2004, ME Games Ltd wrote:

Hello Everyone

GSI Takeover:

The big news is that we're looking to buy out GSI.

>The big news is that we're looking to buy out GSI.

Here's what you'll need then:

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/2nded.htm

:slight_smile: Good luck.

That's something we'd look into. :slight_smile: Not for a while though as we've done this around 10 times and my experience says not to do things like this. We'd offer variant games which would bring in some additional rules - eg a Points based 1650 game with random artefacts is a possibility.

It's all very exciting.

Clint

Dude. $900 is some serious cash. Is this 4 free
turns, 1 time ($30 value) or 4 free turns in EVERY
game we play with you in the future (30 games to get
back the $900)?

···

--- ME Games Ltd <me@MiddleEarthGames.com> wrote:

Hello Everyone

GSI Takeover:

The big news is that we're looking to buy out GSI.

This will really stretch us monetarily so we're
looking for players to help
support us. We're offering a bonus of 4 free turns
if you're able to send
us �500, or US$900 or AU$1200. If you can afford to
send us more than that,
we'll give the same bonus for each
�500/US$900/AU$1200.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: ME Games Ltd [mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com]
Subject: [mepbmlist] FS 19th March - please read...

This will really stretch us monetarily so we're looking for players to

help

support us. We're offering a bonus of 4 free turns if you're able to

send

us £500, or US$900 or AU$1200. If you can afford to send us more than

that,

we'll give the same bonus for each £500/US$900/AU$1200.

Ahhh. Now I get it. You meant for us to put this money into our
Middle-earth Games account. When I first read the line "4 free turns if
you're able to send us US$900", I thought you were offering 4 free turns
in EXCHANGE for a $900.00 'donation'. While the game is very enjoyable,
that would have been a bit expensive. :wink:

This makes more sense, but I'm not certain if many people will be able
to afford that.

Just out of curiosity, (if it's not a secret), how much are you looking
to raise overall?

Mike Mulka

···

-----Original Message-----

Hello Everyone

GSI Takeover:

Wow, not every day you see a British company (or should I say Welsh?) taking
over an American one! If I had any spare cash I'd willingly send you some,
but I have more debts than I care to look at.

Now, if you were to offer shares in ME Games, which under your enterprising
and efficient management could realistically be expected to rise in value, I
would be interested, but I'm afraid �500 for 4 turns doesn't sound like a
good deal.

Best of luck anyway,

Richard.

The big news is that we're looking to buy out GSI. The present situation
is that GSI are not able to support and improve the game. We feel that the
only way to move forward, update the game and possibly offer more

scenarios

and variants is to buy them.

This will really stretch us monetarily so we're looking for players to

help

support us. We're offering a bonus of 4 free turns if you're able to send
us �500, or US$900 or AU$1200. If you can afford to send us more than

that,

we'll give the same bonus for each �500/US$900/AU$1200.

As always, we offer a no quibble refund policy, so you can ask for your
money back at any time, but we would then take back any free turns you had
earned!

If you want to help us to help move the game forward then get in touch,
whether or not this means financial investment and support, technical
support or even just a "best of luck"! It's a big move for us and we're
pretty sure we can do good things for the game with your support and

input.

In the past we've been very successful doing deals like this, I think this
will be the 10th PBM firm we've bought. An example of our success is that
when we took over Allsorts, they had 17 games running - we brought that up
to 28. More games are being played and more players are presently playing
Middle Earth with us than ever played with DGE and Allsorts, and we are
close to the record number of players playing Middle Earth.

10th Anniversary - Harlequin games celebrates 10 years of gaming end of
March early April. Whew - who'd have thought it! :slight_smile:

Price Changes: Our yearly review of our pricing structure is below -

we'll

be implementing these on Monday 5th April onwards. Other prices stay the
same. (Check House rules for details - feel free to request a copy).

UK, Europe and Rest of the World prices:
AMEOW turn (ie you send in your turn using AM or MEOW with the correct
attachment): �4.40
Turn Fee Postal (Ie you receive your turn by post): �4.90
Turn Fee Email (Ie you send in your turn by email, NOT using AM or MEOW):
�4.60
Set-up in a game (base cost): �7.00

Australasia:
AMEOW turn (ie you send in your turn using AM or MEOW with the correct
attachment): AU$9.90
Turn Fee Email (Ie you send in your turn by email, NOT using AM or MEOW):
AU$10.90
Set-up in a game (base cost): AU$16.50
Reprint: AU$4.50
Map: AU$16

North America:
AMEOW turn (ie you send in your turn using AM or MEOW with the correct
attachment):US$7.60
Turn Fee Postal (Ie you receive your turn by post): US$8.30
Turn Fee Email (Ie you send in your turn by email, NOT using AM or MEOW):
US$7.90
Set-up in a game (base cost): US$12.90
Map: US$9.50

(For reference turnfees for North America have been �3.60 and this brings

it

back to around �4.20 for a AMEOW turn. Also NA don't get the 5% CCard
charge that UK based players do due to the difficulty of getting payment

to

us by Cheque.)

The following new games are filling up.
2950 2wk [Game 237] Gunboat: 4 duo of nations available. [12/3/04) Clint
playing
2950 2wk [Game 236]: 5 nations available. [30/1/04) (FilledLast:2 mth

2wks )

1650 2wk [Game 50]: 15 nations available.[9/3/04] (FilledLast: 31days

[14d,

19d])
1000 2wk [Game 142]: 17 nations available [29/1/04] Game format not
decided (FilledLast:2mt 9 dys)
1000 2wk [Game 141] Gunboat - Regional Set-up; 5+1 King set-ups

available.

Play a Kingdom OR 2 duo of nations [29/1/03] [6 days to fill first game -
forever for this one!)

Grudge Games we need opposition for:
1650 Brad Jenison FP 12v
2950 Wotr Var Paul Sacco FP 12v12 Dun/WW FP, Cor/KE DS

Setting up in a game:

When I get all 25 nations into the game I will allocate you your choice of
nation from the list of nations that you have sent me - please send

multiple

nation choices as this helps to get everyone their 1st or 2nd choices - if
too many choose only 1 nation the system falls apart. All nations are
potentially available until I set up the game.

Descriptions of the type of game follow - please check this when

contacting

me with regards playing in that game. When joining with allies please

tell

me so that I can help out. You cannot join 1650/2950 games as Neutral

with

an aligned or Neutral ally.

Up to 2 nation game: You can play one or two Aligned nations, or one

Neutral

nation.
2 nation game: You must play two nations.

Note please ask for variant games we can try to get you opposition for

them

if you are interested - mostly Grudge teams though - if I get 10 players

for

any single type of game then I will put it up for general availability

below

and push it, always check the rules for variant games;

I have drop-outs available - don't forget you get a free turn for taking
these up...
E [Early] = 0-10 turn, M [Midgame]= 11-20, L [Late game] = 21+ [A= Aligned
if a Neutral, N= not aligned if a Neutral, P = Postal and Email game, G=
Grudge, 1w = 1week game, 3w = 3week game]
Bofa: None
1000: None
2950: None
1650: SouGon (m)

Some GB duos available as well - ask for more information. (1650).

(Please note past turns for all these nations are available) Ask for
specifics on what is available.

Thanks
Clint

Check out our Message Board: www.halo5.net/meforums and the "mepbmlist"

via

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "ME Games Ltd" <me@MiddleEarthGames.com>
To: "mepbmlist" <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 4:37 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] FS 19th March - please read...

http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
************************************
           ME Games Ltd
Mailto: me@middleearthgames.com
Website: www.middleearthgames.com

UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
US: EpicMail, PO Box 801, Wexford PA 15090-0801

Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)
UK Fax: 029 2062 5532 (24 hours)
US Fax: 1-503-296-2325 (preferred)
US Phone: 412)302-2505 EST Weekdays
US alternate Fax: 801 650 8073 Fax 24hrs

Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

Now, if you were to offer shares in ME Games, which under your enterprising
and efficient management could realistically be expected to rise in value, I
would be interested, but I'm afraid £500 for 4 turns doesn't sound like a
good deal.

It's not - BUT it's about what you might spend with us in a year anyway. We're asking that instead of you sending that money in a year's time you send it now. That way we can use that to pay the initial upfront monies and reduce the (big) loan we have to take out. The more money we have spare the more money we'll have for development of the game or promotion of it. The better the game and more players the less you guys will pay for each turn. So in that way it's a good deal.

"4 free turns in EVERY game we play with you in the future (30 games to get back the $900)?"

Nope - just total. Note this is an advance of your normal payment (say you play 2 games that's around 2 years payment). Would players go for half that amount for 2 free turns?

"What is the duration though, I.e. how long would my $900 have to be in my account?"

As per the email - one year you have to keep it in to get the 4 free turns. But that money can be used for turns as normal, after the 4 free turns are used up, and if you want it refunded then that's fine as well (note we'll then charge you for the 4 free turns if less than a year has passed). We'll keep records of who paid us - don't worry.

"Just out of curiosity, (if it's not a secret), how much are you looking to raise overall?"

Sorry that's confidential. :slight_smile:

"Wow, not every day you see a British company (or should I say Welsh?) taking over an American one! "

Harlequin has done it 4 times so far. (Also a few other companies - I think 10 is the total companies Harlequin has taken over - that's about 1 per year). :slight_smile: Like I said we're reasonably experienced at this sort of thing. I'm pretty sure I know what we're doing here... (gulp)

"...you get MEPBM the program. It's now your own personal possession to hack and nick around with at your leisure?"

Well it would belong to the company that owned it but basically yes.

"If that is the case, I'm sure you're prepared for a few members to have something to say about making changes to the program. "

Yes I'm prepared...

"What can the customer base expect in regards to changes to the code? "

Nothing to start with. First off we'd streamline our operations. Running Middle Earth is very labour intensive and this would free us up to do other development, promotional work.

"Do you have some general ideas as to how you want to handle this line of debate? "

Yes, but as always feedback welcome. Generally I'd want to create a group where any interested parties could discuss the bits and pieces, propose ideas etc and then we'd take them back to the player base at large. It's worked very well for other projects we've done. Anyone welcome to join that group as long as they are prepared to input. I'd want to create a Wish list of things that need to be sorted out (for example I know of at least one bug in the game that GSI haven't addressed at present) and then see what player feedback on that is.

1stly: Get the program to work on PC. Reasons: It's a clunker using Macs and we can't get any program support. Should be a simple conversion program. (Simple in the broadest meaning of the word). Also we'd then be able to do FTF events in other locations and demos at conventions. (Last year we invested a bunch of money going to conventions bringing in new blood, getting the GWCs sorted, programs [MEOW etc] and other bits like that).

2ndly: The bit you guys are interested in.
A) Pretty up the game - the report and all the rest if very old fashioned nowadays. Say you want a portrait of your beloved in full colour then we'd be able to provide that...
B) I'd see what you want to do with the program. For example players claim to want 1650 artefacts randomised - is this actually the case? - we'd need to investigate and run some dummy games to test out if this is an improvement and if so then offer it as a variant game. I've got a list in my head of stuff that could be improved, and other players have other ideas, but that would very much depend on what you lot want here and I'll be bugging you lot for this information. We also want to keep the game as it stands - why fix what's broken? But for the players that are jaded we'd like to offer something there as well. Also I'd like to offer you cheaper games - without us losing money - that's something to be investigated as well.

Eg "Everyone" knows that no-one recruits Light Infantry and Light Cavalry - there's been some good ideas bandied about them so that's something to look into for example, get a group together and test out potential modifications.

For those that want major changes I'd certainly want to discuss that as well as for those that don't want any changes and work out what points are valid and worthy of further investigation. What I don't expect at all is a lot of changes to the game or any dramatic changes.

3rdly: Let's not count any chickens - we need cash to do this and player support. So if you do want to invest - maybe shares/dividends etc then get in touch. I KNOW you want to discuss 2ndly most but that's a lot of work to sort out - some several hundred hours work I reckon and there's no quick answers.

No-ones yet asked me why we want to do this!? :slight_smile: Short answer, we're pretty sure we can do better than GSI (they've done a good job in many ways so it's actually harder than you might think) and provide a better game and service. It also will make the game more secure over the next 10 years. Long answer - well it's too long for this - chat to me at a pubmeet... :slight_smile:

"Solid assurances given that the core game will be untouched, etc?"

Short answer: Yes. We might develop additional variants - and that's one I'd like to be able to do is create variants for players more cheaply for you guys. At present we have to cover our costs for setting up, say the Wotr Variant game, and that makes it expensive for you (as a player) to set-up in it. You're our future income so we have to look after you. (If any indication is needed the sort of development that we've done so far might be a yardstick - I don't know yet).

We do need your financial support and mostly it's the sort of payment that you'd give us over the coming year we'd just like it earlier. Cash flow forecasts are good for us regaining our investment in time, and development of the game (see above) and looking after the players.

For further reference Harlequin bought the Legends Licence last year. The major difference between the two programs is that Legends is buggy - very out-dated so Harlequin has been spending a lot of time fixing those bugs and with lots of player feedback fixing balance. Legends strengths are many as well and with Sam's mutual assistance we've learnt a lot .

Thanks for all the positive feedback (that's not a call to get negative feedback I'm pretty aware of the potential pitfalls thanks partially to warnings from players!) and thanks for all the offer of help... now about your bank balance... :slight_smile:

Clint

You expect someone too? Anyone who knows anything about this game would
presume you've been dreaming of it since you started mepbm in the first
place...

Brad

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "ME Games Ltd" <me@MiddleEarthGames.com>

No-ones yet asked me why we want to do this!?

>Now, if you were to offer shares in ME Games, which under your enterprising
>and efficient management could realistically be expected to rise in value

What sort of monies would you suggest and what return would you get? If any enterprising entrepaneur out there want's to put something forward it's something that we'd consider at least for part of the monies we need to raise.

With a player base of around 700-1000 to raise the money we need around $10k each from 2-3% of the player base if that puts into perspective. Or $1k from 20-30% of the player base. (So half the monies can be raised if we get half those players to finance their accounts for one year in advance).

We can take out a loan for a reasonable amount (7% I recall) so any shares we give out take from our future wages so it has to be good for us as well. :slight_smile: It reduces the risk spreading the initial investment around but our reckoning is that even the worst case scenario we're okay so we're a good risk we reckon.

Make me an offer... :slight_smile: (Off list preferably)

Clint

Very good, a Welsh triumph. Maybe you should have Harlequin take over your
Rugby team :wink:

[For the benefit of those abroad: Wales got its annual ritual thrashing by
England yesterday.]

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 04:02 21/03/2004, ME Games Ltd wrote:

"Wow, not every day you see a British company (or should I say Welsh?)
taking over an American one! "

Harlequin has done it 4 times so far.

> No-ones yet asked me why we want to do this!?

You expect someone too?

A little bit... :slight_smile:

Anyone who knows anything about this game would presume you've been dreaming of it since you started mepbm in the first place...

More like nightmares. :slight_smile: Like any such venture it's a risk but it's one we can back-up. It's a risk that tomorrow everyone leaves the game for example and I have to find a NORMAL job... ouch. :frowning:

However, I think the future of the game is if we run it. If anyone else runs it then I don't think they have the hand on the pulse that we do BUT we could have that very wrong. For example I know we have a very different perspective to a small number of our player base, but also that for others they think we're great and give us a lot of support.

Takeovers of any sort are a Nightmare - DGE t/o was 90+ hour weeks for a long time for example and not fun at all ... so dreaming of this might be a little strong. When we took over Allsorts it was also a very steep learning curve - I still remember the first day when a player got his nation killed.... (after a little while I realised this happened a fair bit and major panic sessions were reduced to inane dribbling and inane emails such as this one)...

'Best go to bed - got a convention tomorrow to try and sell Bofa to the unaware hordes... :slight_smile:

Clint

Wow, this is exciting! I came back to the list just in time! :wink: My inbox just needed a break.

Unfortunately, I don't think my fiance' would be too keen on me dipping into the "wedding fund" even if it is just 900 bucks. :slight_smile: I wish you luck with this, though. I love the game but its life is limited in its current form (IMO).

-Russ

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Brad Brunet
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 11:31 PM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] taking over gsi

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "ME Games Ltd" <me@MiddleEarthGames.com>

  > No-ones yet asked me why we want to do this!?

  You expect someone too? Anyone who knows anything about this game would
  presume you've been dreaming of it since you started mepbm in the first
  place...

  Brad

  Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
  To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail is twofold:

    First : I do want to participate in the wishlist as my head is always filled with possible modifications to the game, not only in the technical area, like algorithms and order sucess (but i do think that some of this needs to be checked out. Some classes/nations maybe toned down by changes in the overall game, but save that for later ), but changes that would add more flavor to the game. As Clint mentioned, Not only the reports are somewhat archaic, but we've dissecte them so deeply that we read letters but convert them in numbers before even really absorving the information, like "huge army losses"as 80-99 % of troop loss. I've also read in an old article about adding more flavor to assassinations, like "Bain was found unf\der a boulder" etc. So here I'm demonstrating my interest in participating in this bouncing of ideas in case Harlequim actually seals this takeover.

    Second : If Harle do buy GSI, being the new de facto owner of the game, how will be handled the other game distributors' contracts to GSI ? Will they be renegotiated or transfered nominally from GSI to Harle? This concerns me because I play the brazilian version, distributed by Anel Um. Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but of business and business law I could not know less.... I'm majoring History for crying out loud !!!! =P. Which brings me to the real point : If relations between owner/distributor remains the same, as I suspect they will, the changes made to scenarios supplied to the distributors be given to them ? Or supplied at a small fee ? Let's take as an example 3rd age 1650; If you decide to make series of changes, will the new and reformed program be passed to the distributor free of charge, as an update ? I realize that this may seem dumb of me to even ask, as it seems ilogical to give away what you paid programmers to develop, but in the other hand, If the distributors have to pay for every update, which in my way of seeing should be many small instead of some big reforms, will bring serious harm to them and their clients, despite the fact of the need of such companies to in fact hire a full time translator to keep up with changes.

      As you can see, this e-mail is full of assumptions, as Harle is still in the early stage of its "purchase". Rightly so, not much is being elaborated about it as it is not yet a solid deal. However, I think it is important to discuss, and this e-mail is an attempt to kickstart such a discussion. Answers from all of you and clarifications from Harle of the points above would be most appreciated

            Sorry If I wrote too much, but as I said, I'm a History major, I don't even notice it anymore :slight_smile: . To Harle best of luck on your projects as I firmly believe such a move will improve the quality of the game and hence, my entertainment

                        Rodrigo Maia

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: ME Games Ltd
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 8:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] FS 19th March - please read...

  >Now, if you were to offer shares in ME Games, which under your enterprising
  >and efficient management could realistically be expected to rise in value, I
  >would be interested, but I'm afraid £500 for 4 turns doesn't sound like a
  >good deal.

  It's not - BUT it's about what you might spend with us in a year
  anyway. We're asking that instead of you sending that money in a year's
  time you send it now. That way we can use that to pay the initial upfront
  monies and reduce the (big) loan we have to take out. The more money we
  have spare the more money we'll have for development of the game or
  promotion of it. The better the game and more players the less you guys
  will pay for each turn. So in that way it's a good deal.

  "4 free turns in EVERY game we play with you in the future (30 games to get
  back the $900)?"

  Nope - just total. Note this is an advance of your normal payment (say you
  play 2 games that's around 2 years payment). Would players go for half
  that amount for 2 free turns?

  "What is the duration though, I.e. how long would my $900 have to be in my
  account?"

  As per the email - one year you have to keep it in to get the 4 free
  turns. But that money can be used for turns as normal, after the 4 free
  turns are used up, and if you want it refunded then that's fine as well
  (note we'll then charge you for the 4 free turns if less than a year has
  passed). We'll keep records of who paid us - don't worry.

  "Just out of curiosity, (if it's not a secret), how much are you looking to
  raise overall?"

  Sorry that's confidential. :slight_smile:

  "Wow, not every day you see a British company (or should I say Welsh?)
  taking over an American one! "

  Harlequin has done it 4 times so far. (Also a few other companies - I think
  10 is the total companies Harlequin has taken over - that's about 1 per
  year). :slight_smile: Like I said we're reasonably experienced at this sort of
  thing. I'm pretty sure I know what we're doing here... (gulp)

  "...you get MEPBM the program. It's now your own personal possession to
  hack and nick around with at your leisure?"

  Well it would belong to the company that owned it but basically yes.

  "If that is the case, I'm sure you're prepared for a few members to have
  something to say about making changes to the program. "

  Yes I'm prepared...

  "What can the customer base expect in regards to changes to the code? "

  Nothing to start with. First off we'd streamline our operations. Running
  Middle Earth is very labour intensive and this would free us up to do other
  development, promotional work.

  "Do you have some general ideas as to how you want to handle this line of
  debate? "

  Yes, but as always feedback welcome. Generally I'd want to create a group
  where any interested parties could discuss the bits and pieces, propose
  ideas etc and then we'd take them back to the player base at large. It's
  worked very well for other projects we've done. Anyone welcome to join
  that group as long as they are prepared to input. I'd want to create a
  Wish list of things that need to be sorted out (for example I know of at
  least one bug in the game that GSI haven't addressed at present) and then
  see what player feedback on that is.

  1stly: Get the program to work on PC. Reasons: It's a clunker using Macs
  and we can't get any program support. Should be a simple conversion
  program. (Simple in the broadest meaning of the word). Also we'd then be
  able to do FTF events in other locations and demos at conventions. (Last
  year we invested a bunch of money going to conventions bringing in new
  blood, getting the GWCs sorted, programs [MEOW etc] and other bits like that).

  2ndly: The bit you guys are interested in.
  A) Pretty up the game - the report and all the rest if very old fashioned
  nowadays. Say you want a portrait of your beloved in full colour then we'd
  be able to provide that...
  B) I'd see what you want to do with the program. For example players claim
  to want 1650 artefacts randomised - is this actually the case? - we'd need
  to investigate and run some dummy games to test out if this is an
  improvement and if so then offer it as a variant game. I've got a list in
  my head of stuff that could be improved, and other players have other
  ideas, but that would very much depend on what you lot want here and I'll
  be bugging you lot for this information. We also want to keep the game as
  it stands - why fix what's broken? But for the players that are jaded we'd
  like to offer something there as well. Also I'd like to offer you cheaper
  games - without us losing money - that's something to be investigated as well.

  Eg "Everyone" knows that no-one recruits Light Infantry and Light Cavalry -
  there's been some good ideas bandied about them so that's something to look
  into for example, get a group together and test out potential modifications.

  For those that want major changes I'd certainly want to discuss that as
  well as for those that don't want any changes and work out what points are
  valid and worthy of further investigation. What I don't expect at all is a
  lot of changes to the game or any dramatic changes.

  3rdly: Let's not count any chickens - we need cash to do this and player
  support. So if you do want to invest - maybe shares/dividends etc then get
  in touch. I KNOW you want to discuss 2ndly most but that's a lot of work
  to sort out - some several hundred hours work I reckon and there's no quick
  answers.

  No-ones yet asked me why we want to do this!? :slight_smile: Short answer, we're
  pretty sure we can do better than GSI (they've done a good job in many ways
  so it's actually harder than you might think) and provide a better game and
  service. It also will make the game more secure over the next 10
  years. Long answer - well it's too long for this - chat to me at a
  pubmeet... :slight_smile:

  "Solid assurances given that the core game will be untouched, etc?"

  Short answer: Yes. We might develop additional variants - and that's one
  I'd like to be able to do is create variants for players more cheaply for
  you guys. At present we have to cover our costs for setting up, say the
  Wotr Variant game, and that makes it expensive for you (as a player) to
  set-up in it. You're our future income so we have to look after you. (If
  any indication is needed the sort of development that we've done so far
  might be a yardstick - I don't know yet).

  We do need your financial support and mostly it's the sort of payment that
  you'd give us over the coming year we'd just like it earlier. Cash flow
  forecasts are good for us regaining our investment in time, and development
  of the game (see above) and looking after the players.

  For further reference Harlequin bought the Legends Licence last year. The
  major difference between the two programs is that Legends is buggy - very
  out-dated so Harlequin has been spending a lot of time fixing those bugs
  and with lots of player feedback fixing balance. Legends strengths are
  many as well and with Sam's mutual assistance we've learnt a lot .

  Thanks for all the positive feedback (that's not a call to get negative
  feedback I'm pretty aware of the potential pitfalls thanks partially to
  warnings from players!) and thanks for all the offer of help... now about
  your bank balance... :slight_smile:

  Clint

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Urzahil wrote:

Ahhh. Now I get it. You meant for us to put this money into our
Middle-earth Games account. When I first read the line "4 free turns if
you're able to send us US$900", I thought you were offering 4 free turns
in EXCHANGE for a $900.00 'donation'. While the game is very enjoyable,
that would have been a bit expensive. :wink:

This makes more sense, but I'm not certain if many people will be able
to afford that.

I really hope Clint is able to pull this off. However, given the reaction
when I suggested a deposit scheme for games to reduce dropouts, I have to
agree with you: I cannot see anyone being in a position to cough up that
sort of money.

If they do, then the arguments of "poverty" against a deposit go right out
the window. :slight_smile:

Gavin

Rodrigo Maia wrote:

  Second : If Harle do buy GSI, being the new de facto owner of the game, how
will be handled the other game distributors' contracts to GSI ? Will they be
renegotiated or transfered nominally from GSI to Harle? This concerns me
because I play the brazilian version, distributed by Anel Um. Forgive me if
this is a dumb question, but of business and business law I could not know
less.... I'm majoring History for crying out loud !!!! =P. Which brings me to
the real point : If relations between owner/distributor remains the same, as I
suspect they will, the changes made to scenarios supplied to the distributors
be given to them ?

This brings up another point: relations with the holders of the original
copyright, the Tolkein estate. Have you checked how they would react? I'm
not even sure of the relationship between GSI and them, but I do remember
many years back that this was an issue for one of the parties. Could this be
used as an excuse to change royalties or whatever...?

Concerned of France. (aka Gavin)

Rodrigo Maia wrote:

Not only the reports are somewhat archaic, but we've dissecte them so deeply
that we read letters but convert them in numbers before even really absorving
the information, like "huge army losses"as 80-99 % of troop loss. I've also
read in an old article about adding more flavor to assassinations, like "Bain
was found unf\der a boulder" etc.

Too true. I would have two main wishes if Clint succeeds: remove a lot of
the certainty from the game that's built up over the years so that the
original sense of wonder returns (heck, we all have dragon lists, riddle
lists, artefact lists, starting set ups etc by now) and sort out the various
army problems (make it worth while recruiting different troop types, sort
out the "sandwich" problem and make troops of different nations really
differ).

But it's very early days yet.

Gavin

    Second : If Harle do buy GSI, being the new de facto owner of the game, how will be handled the other game distributors' contracts to GSI ? Will they be renegotiated or transfered nominally from GSI to Harle? This concerns me because I play the brazilian version, distributed by Anel Um. Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but of business and business law I could not know less.... I'm majoring History for crying out loud !!!! =P. Which brings me to the real point : If relations between owner/distributor remains the same, as I suspect they will, the changes made to scenarios supplied to the distributors be given to them ? Or supplied at a small fee ? Let's take as an example 3rd age 1650; If you decide to make series of changes, will the new and reformed program be passed to the distributor free of charge, as an update ? I realize that this may seem dumb of me to even ask, as it seems ilogical to give away what you paid programmers to develop, but in the other hand, If the distributors have to pay for every update, which in my way of seeing should be many small instead of some big reforms, will bring serious harm to them and their clients, despite the fact of the need of such companies to in fact hire a full time translator to keep up with changes.

I don't know yet - that we'll discuss with each licencee. With Harlequin everything was shared out but then each licencee also did a lot of improvements to the game that everyone benefited from. We'll look after them though of course - they're part of our income... :slight_smile:

  To Harle best of luck on your projects as I firmly believe such a move will improve the quality of the game and hence, my entertainment

Thanks
Clint

This brings up another point: relations with the holders of the original
copyright, the Tolkein estate. Have you checked how they would react? I'm
not even sure of the relationship between GSI and them, but I do remember
many years back that this was an issue for one of the parties. Could this be
used as an excuse to change royalties or whatever...?

Things are fine with them - the dangerous period was the period of the films coming out and things have calmed down now.

Clint

> Middle-earth Games account. When I first read the line "4 free turns if
> you're able to send us US$900", I thought you were offering 4 free turns
> in EXCHANGE for a $900.00 'donation'. While the game is very enjoyable,
> that would have been a bit expensive. :wink:
>
> This makes more sense, but I'm not certain if many people will be able
> to afford that.

I really hope Clint is able to pull this off. However, given the reaction
when I suggested a deposit scheme for games to reduce dropouts, I have to
agree with you: I cannot see anyone being in a position to cough up that
sort of money.

Actually we already have had some players "cough up" this sort of money. Others are offering smaller quantities which is great. £250, $450, AU$600 will get you two free turns (addition to the earlier offer). We've also had a lot of interest in players wanting shares in the company as well and we're working on a deal for that. As mentioned earlier we only need a small percentage of players to take this up and we can do the deal. :slight_smile:

If they do, then the arguments of "poverty" against a deposit go right out
the window. :slight_smile:

Different players?

Clint

ME Games Ltd wrote:

Actually we already have had some players "cough up" this sort of
money. [...] As mentioned earlier we only need a
small percentage of players to take this up and we can do the deal. :slight_smile:

Actually, if I wasn't so completely and utterly impoverished, I'd be among
them...

Gavin