Game 130

mepbmlist
#1

Clint/Stuart/Rob

We the free people in game 130 have collectively decided to drop Game 130
and conceded to the DS as worthy winners,

Regards

Jerry

···

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#2

--- In mepbmlist@y..., jerry.mellerick@l... wrote:

Clint/Stuart/Rob

We the free people in game 130 have collectively decided to drop

Game 130

and conceded to the DS as worthy winners,

Regards

Jerry

Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm not enjoying my
dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but enough is enough. We
shall see on Thursday....

Brad for Arfanhil the Omnipotent NeoNazgul

#3

pbmnoot wrote:

Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm not enjoying my dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but enough is enough. We shall see on Thursday....

We're not going to lie to you guys about dropping! :slight_smile:

Yes, this is for real. Congrats to the DS. First game I've seen where Rhudar and the Duns went DS quickly. Made for an interesting game!

    jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

#4

FP: If you want us to run your turns then we can do that. But otherwise to save you money we don't input or run the turns.

Your call. We've not had an independent email saying the game is over but never had a bogus end of game. If a DS player gets a turn in then we'll contact both them and you asking what you want to do. (This is what we normally do in this situation).

Up for another?

Clint

···

At 08:26 24/04/02, you wrote:

pbmnoot wrote:

> Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm not enjoying my
> dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but enough is enough. We
> shall see on Thursday....

We're not going to lie to you guys about dropping! :slight_smile:

Yes, this is for real. Congrats to the DS. First game I've seen where
Rhudar and the Duns went DS quickly. Made for an interesting game!

                jason

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

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#5

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:

pbmnoot wrote:

> Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm not enjoying my
> dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but enough is enough. We
> shall see on Thursday....

We're not going to lie to you guys about dropping! :slight_smile:

Yes, this is for real. Congrats to the DS. First game I've seen where
Rhudar and the Duns went DS quickly. Made for an interesting game!

    jason

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
E pur si muove!

I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns and
Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one thing
for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but quite
another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the outcome.
I'd be curious if anyone has a single example of a game where these 2
neutrals went dark on turn 0 and the free ended up winning. I'm
willing to be persuaded, but none of us really like boring 10 turn
games. The moral may be that the southern powers have to decide if
they want a short game immediately if these 2 nations go dark - e.g.
are the free hopeless or did the northern neuts make an unreasonable
choice?

Marc

#6

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "marc_pinsonneault" <pinsonneault.1@o...>
wrote:

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:
> pbmnoot wrote:
>
> > Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm not enjoying my
> > dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but enough is enough.

We

> > shall see on Thursday....
>
> We're not going to lie to you guys about dropping! :slight_smile:
>
> Yes, this is for real. Congrats to the DS. First game I've seen

where

> Rhudar and the Duns went DS quickly. Made for an interesting game!
>
> jason
>
>
>
> --
> Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
> E pur si muove!

I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns and
Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one thing
for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but quite
another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the outcome.
I'd be curious if anyone has a single example of a game where these

2

neutrals went dark on turn 0 and the free ended up winning. I'm
willing to be persuaded, but none of us really like boring 10 turn
games. The moral may be that the southern powers have to decide if
they want a short game immediately if these 2 nations go dark - e.g.
are the free hopeless or did the northern neuts make an unreasonable
choice?

Marc

Marc; Game 71 had Duns, Easterling, and Rhudaur, all go dark from the
very first turn. We are now in the upper 20's as far as turns go still
the Free continue the fight, but it remains to be seen for how long.

Brad

#7

marc_pinsonneault wrote:

I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns and
Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one thing
for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but quite
another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the outcome.

The neutrals didn't switch on turn 1, but it was fairly early (turn 3-4). We southern neutrals (I was Harad) dickered around for another few turns while AR & CA were overrun. There was a lot (LOT!) of wailing and gnashing of teeth on both sides to try and woo HA and CO. In the end, we both went FP, although to no avail. Had we gone FP earlier, things would probably have been much different.

    jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

#8

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:
  > pbmnoot wrote:
  >
  > > Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm not enjoying my
  > > dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but enough is enough. We
  > > shall see on Thursday....
  >
  > We're not going to lie to you guys about dropping! :slight_smile:
  >
  > Yes, this is for real. Congrats to the DS. First game I've seen where
  > Rhudar and the Duns went DS quickly. Made for an interesting game!
  >
  > jason
  >
  >
  >
  > --
  > Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
  > E pur si muove!

  I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
  How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns and
  Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
  1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one thing
  for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but quite
  another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the outcome.
  RD: Why on earth would neutrals want to join "an obviously superior team"?

  If they have any interest in a good game, as opposed to a walkover, neuts should join the obviously weaker team in the interests of game balance. This seems to have happened in most Brit games I've been involved in. Brits are renowned for championing the underdog!

  Richard.

  I'd be curious if anyone has a single example of a game where these 2
  neutrals went dark on turn 0 and the free ended up winning. I'm
  willing to be persuaded, but none of us really like boring 10 turn
  games. The moral may be that the southern powers have to decide if
  they want a short game immediately if these 2 nations go dark - e.g.
  are the free hopeless or did the northern neuts make an unreasonable
  choice?

  Marc

  RD: I can't recall neuts declaring on turn 0 in any of my games. Frankly, it stinks. Such neuts have had no time to assess the play of the respective teams, maybe not even any communication. I would regard any such declaration with deep suspicion. If a neut wants to declare on turn 0 and has no ulterior motive, he should join a grudge game - there are enough around.
  Richard.

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: marc_pinsonneault
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:42 PM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] Early neut declarations (was Re: Game 130)

#9

Rhudaur decided turn 2. Duns were egging him on and joined the
next turn. The three southern neuts all went free. Arthedain
and Cardolan are gone, I was on my way back to the last Noldo
MT in the theatre, Woodmen gone also as Rhu/Witch/Dragon had
excellent coordination from the get go. Currently not expecting
turn 28 to process as Gondor and the South, harbouring all the
other Free, are tired...

Brad Brunet for Arfanhil the Omnipotent

ps - who remembers his 2nd ever game...310, as SG, and the
anihilation of Cardolan turn 4 when a desperate 949 using
Tarondor failed...Duns and Rhu going dark weren't the only
reason the Free lost that one...

···

--- marc_pinsonneault <pinsonneault.1@osu.edu> wrote:

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:
> pbmnoot wrote:
>
> > Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm not enjoying my
> > dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but enough is enough.
We
> > shall see on Thursday....
>
> We're not going to lie to you guys about dropping! :slight_smile:
>
> Yes, this is for real. Congrats to the DS. First game I've seen
where
> Rhudar and the Duns went DS quickly. Made for an interesting game!
>
> jason
>
>
>
> --
> Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
> E pur si muove!

I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns and
Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one thing
for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but quite
another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the outcome.
I'd be curious if anyone has a single example of a game where these 2
neutrals went dark on turn 0 and the free ended up winning. I'm
willing to be persuaded, but none of us really like boring 10 turn
games. The moral may be that the southern powers have to decide if
they want a short game immediately if these 2 nations go dark - e.g.
are the free hopeless or did the northern neuts make an unreasonable
choice?

Marc

______________________________________________________________________
Only a few days left to file! http://taxes.yahoo.ca

#10

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "kingoftherill" <kingoftherill@y...> wrote:

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "marc_pinsonneault" <pinsonneault.1@o...>
wrote:
> --- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:
> > pbmnoot wrote:
> >
> > > Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm not enjoying my
> > > dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but enough is enough.
We
> > > shall see on Thursday....
> >
> > We're not going to lie to you guys about dropping! :slight_smile:
> >
> > Yes, this is for real. Congrats to the DS. First game I've seen
where
> > Rhudar and the Duns went DS quickly. Made for an interesting game!
> >
> > jason
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
> > E pur si muove!
>
> I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
> How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns and
> Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
> 1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one thing
> for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but quite
> another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the outcome.
> I'd be curious if anyone has a single example of a game where these
2
> neutrals went dark on turn 0 and the free ended up winning. I'm
> willing to be persuaded, but none of us really like boring 10 turn
> games. The moral may be that the southern powers have to decide if
> they want a short game immediately if these 2 nations go dark - e.g.
> are the free hopeless or did the northern neuts make an unreasonable
> choice?
>
> Marc

Marc; Game 71 had Duns, Easterling, and Rhudaur, all go dark from the
very first turn. We are now in the upper 20's as far as turns go still
the Free continue the fight, but it remains to be seen for how long.

Brad

Ouch. If people want that sort of game they should go for a
prealigned grudge match...where you'd also have to consider
the formidable Harad/Corsair free combo and look at what they
could do to Mordor with the Gondors.

Marc

#11

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:

marc_pinsonneault wrote:

> I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
> How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns and
> Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
> 1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one thing
> for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but quite
> another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the outcome.

The neutrals didn't switch on turn 1, but it was fairly early (turn
3-4). We southern neutrals (I was Harad) dickered around for another

few

turns while AR & CA were overrun. There was a lot (LOT!) of wailing and
gnashing of teeth on both sides to try and woo HA and CO. In the

end, we

both went FP, although to no avail. Had we gone FP earlier, things

would

probably have been much different.

    jason

It is true that Rhuduar has to go dark early if they want the choice
to do so; the WK usually won't be in good shape by turn 10 :slight_smile: But
the whole key to the strategic flow of the game is a race: can the
free win militarily before the dark character advantages turn the
game around? It makes it very, very hard for the free to win if they
are fighting for their lives in the north rather than using it as
their stronghold. A neutral declaration on turn 7 is very different
from one on turn 1. I'm a bit surprised that the dark side was trying
to also get the ha/co on their team. To be honest I really discourage
more than three neutrals from joining my team, since there is no real
achievement in winning a 14-11 or 15-10 game.

Marc

Marc

#12

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Player <pbmnoot@y...> wrote:

--- marc_pinsonneault <pinsonneault.1@o...> wrote:
> --- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:
> > pbmnoot wrote:
> >
> > > Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm not enjoying my
> > > dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but enough is enough.
> We
> > > shall see on Thursday....
> >
> > We're not going to lie to you guys about dropping! :slight_smile:
> >
> > Yes, this is for real. Congrats to the DS. First game I've seen
> where
> > Rhudar and the Duns went DS quickly. Made for an interesting game!
> >
> > jason
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
> > E pur si muove!
>
> I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
> How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns and
> Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
> 1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one thing
> for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but quite
> another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the outcome.
> I'd be curious if anyone has a single example of a game where these 2
> neutrals went dark on turn 0 and the free ended up winning. I'm
> willing to be persuaded, but none of us really like boring 10 turn
> games. The moral may be that the southern powers have to decide if
> they want a short game immediately if these 2 nations go dark - e.g.
> are the free hopeless or did the northern neuts make an unreasonable
> choice?
>
> Marc

Rhudaur decided turn 2. Duns were egging him on and joined the
next turn. The three southern neuts all went free. Arthedain
and Cardolan are gone, I was on my way back to the last Noldo
MT in the theatre, Woodmen gone also as Rhu/Witch/Dragon had
excellent coordination from the get go. Currently not expecting
turn 28 to process as Gondor and the South, harbouring all the
other Free, are tired...

Brad Brunet for Arfanhil the Omnipotent

ps - who remembers his 2nd ever game...310, as SG, and the
anihilation of Cardolan turn 4 when a desperate 949 using
Tarondor failed...Duns and Rhu going dark weren't the only
reason the Free lost that one...

Quite true. But it did lead to a cascade of other events that made it
very fast. And, unfortunately, extremely bitter if memory serves..

Marc

#13

In defense of the Duns and Rhudaur of 130, they did
NOT go DS immediately, nor did they go DS easily. Both
were presented with coherent (at least I like to think
so) battle plans and incentives for conversion to the
DS. In Rhudaur's case, the offer was a clearly defined
place in team strategy(absoluetely the most important
point) plus agent support, a +10 command arty, a +750
combat arty, and the Pectoral. Dunland recieved the
promise of loot in Cardolan (with an evil Rhuduar, how
could he not loot the place), a +30 mage arty, a +35
command arty, and a 500pt sword.

These are both attractive offers. When backed by solid
strategy, good communication, and a solid
relationship, what would you choose, especialy in the
absence of concrete counter offers? Some arbitrary
idea of Game Balance? Even so, would it behoove you to
know that the Easterlings, Corsairs, and Harad went to
the FP? It was 12DS vs 13FP for you "game balance"
fans, and ALL netrals declared within 3-4 turns of one
another.

In the end, I think we made solid offers to and solid
plans with the Duns and Rhudaur. Though these two
nations made Eraidor decidedly difficult for the Free,
the absent strength of Cardolan and Arthedian could
have been easily made up by Harad and the Corsairs at
Mordor, let alone the Easterling. Dont fault the
Rhudaur and Dun players for accepting a good offer,
especially when the remaining neuts went Free.

Mike-azor
Silver-tongued Lord of Angmar

···

--- Richard DEVEREUX <rd@pagan-47.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: marc_pinsonneault
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:42 PM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] Early neut declarations (was
Re: Game 130)

  --- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett
<jasonab@a...> wrote:
  > pbmnoot wrote:
  >
  > > Cripes I hope this is bona fide...not that I'm
not enjoying my
  > > dominant position as Rhudaur in this one, but
enough is enough. We
  > > shall see on Thursday....
  >
  > We're not going to lie to you guys about
dropping! :slight_smile:
  >
  > Yes, this is for real. Congrats to the DS. First
game I've seen where
  > Rhudar and the Duns went DS quickly. Made for an
interesting game!
  >
  > jason
  >
  >
  >
  > --
  > Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
  > E pur si muove!

  I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some
memories.
  How often is it possible for the free to win when
both the Duns and
  Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate?
This happened in
  1650/310 and it was over within a very short time.
It is one thing
  for neutrals to decide to join an obviously
superior team, but quite
  another to have turn 1 declarations effectively
decide the outcome.
  RD: Why on earth would neutrals want to join "an
obviously superior team"?

  If they have any interest in a good game, as
opposed to a walkover, neuts should join the
obviously weaker team in the interests of game
balance. This seems to have happened in most Brit
games I've been involved in. Brits are renowned for
championing the underdog!

  Richard.

  I'd be curious if anyone has a single example of a
game where these 2
  neutrals went dark on turn 0 and the free ended up
winning. I'm
  willing to be persuaded, but none of us really
like boring 10 turn
  games. The moral may be that the southern powers
have to decide if
  they want a short game immediately if these 2
nations go dark - e.g.
  are the free hopeless or did the northern neuts
make an unreasonable
  choice?

  Marc

  RD: I can't recall neuts declaring on turn 0 in
any of my games. Frankly, it stinks. Such neuts
have had no time to assess the play of the
respective teams, maybe not even any communication.
I would regard any such declaration with deep
suspicion. If a neut wants to declare on turn 0 and
has no ulterior motive, he should join a grudge game
- there are enough around.
  Richard.

__________________________________________________
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#14

mike bateman wrote:

These are both attractive offers. When backed by solid
strategy, good communication, and a solid
relationship, what would you choose, especialy in the
absence of concrete counter offers? Some arbitrary
idea of Game Balance? Even so, would it behoove you to
know that the Easterlings, Corsairs, and Harad went to
the FP? It was 12DS vs 13FP for you "game balance"
fans, and ALL netrals declared within 3-4 turns of one
another.

Well, I might as well tell the whole Harad story at this point.

First, congrats to the DS. Nothing I say here takes away from their solid play.

Here's how the start of the game went. The initial CO player dropped early, and I don't think put in a single turn. The eventual CO player didn't pick up the nation until turn 4 or 5 (don't remember which now). This put the CO at a serious disadvantage.

I attempted to consolidate my navies on turn 1. Unfortunately, SG took this opportunity to move his navy to the Mordor gap, and we had a little run in. This led to some major fireworks over email, and a determination on my part to go dark.

After almost collaborating with the EA to destroy the CO (I ended up deciding to wait), the new CO player came online and started talking. This was about the same time the Duns went evil (T5) (I assume Rhudar went DS about the same time).

At this point, a major propoganda war, complete with some scaremongering over game balance, ensued. The FP obviously didn't want the southern neutrals going DS, since that would put 4 neutrals on one side. On the other hand, the DS started their own campaign to convince us that the HA and CO going the same way would also unbalance the game. At one time or another, I think each side threatened to drop if the southern neutrals went the same way (although I could be wrong). The CO and I had determined that splitting our alliegance would only lead to a protracted war of attrition, so we decided to shift the same way. For the sake of balance, we went FP, although the DS didn't necessarily see it that way. I changed on T12, although we decided to go free around T8 or T9. This is on the outlier of Mike's "3-4 turns."

The FP finally won because they took out AR, CA and the WM, and reduced the NM to a shell. This meant that their agents could focus on HA and the CO, taking out any large armies we raised with agents and a curse squad. We finally resigned on T27, although the DS made it clear they thought we should have quit much earlier (even though we still had 8-9 active nations). Finally, though, the Noldo and Dwarves were within a couple of turns of being out. That was the final straw.

        jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

#15

You are wrong. It was the Free, or at least a Certain Free
player, who did all the screaming about dropping the game
if ANY ONE of the southern neutrals had the audacity to go
Dark Servant. Same Free player that you had your initial
problems with. The Corsairs were considered, at least by
myself, as a free agent who could go either way. The
Easterlings seemed to enjoy playing the "I'll lie to both
sides using my anonymous email..." game, while the Harad
caused a certain amount of "teeth gnashing" over waffling
from virtually certain to go DS to eventually whimpering
into the Free camp.

It was this delay that enabled the DS to eventually shore up
their position and keep the Ithil pass secure (yes, OF COURSE
dragons played a roll...that's as much DS strategy as the Fire
king recruiting naked HI and dying...). Remember: the Duns
failed, not just once, but TWICE to take Tharbad. I had to
take my Metriath, then Imladris, then, after Noldo, Cardy,
Arthedain, and the Dwarves used starting and 2nd wave armies
directly against me alone, I was forced to do someone elses
job and take Tharbad too. Very distressing, as at one point,
Rhudaur had his capital, Metriath, and Tharbad as his only
pops....the game in the North West was most CERTAINLY in doubt
for a lot longer than maybe the Free realized...

The indecisiveness of the Duns Almost cost us the NorthWest,
while the indecisiveness of the Southern Neutrals certainly
cost the Free the Ithil/Anduin theatre. Morale of the story?
Just Do It. When we were "whining" about a southern split,
we most very certainly had every reason to believe it was
necessary for our side.

As for the DS asking of the Free to drop easily around turn
20 (game end 28), it was because the absolute superiority of
our position was obvious. While me and Witch continued our
campaign to totally cleanse the NorthWest, many of our Mordor
brethren became lazy. Whole companies of 80+ agents were
guarding camps...waiting for a game end pdf. Turns out, we
ended up losing 6 of our players out of sheer boredom (well,
laziness maybe too...) towards the end. Rhu/WK/Drag/Cloud all
doubled up and were about to escalate the efforts tenfold.
Too bad the game ended...it would have been nice to see... :wink:

Arfanhil the Omnipotent

···

--- Jason Bennett <jasonab@acm.org> wrote:

At one time or another, I think each side threatened
to drop if the southern neutrals went the same way
(although I could be wrong).

______________________________________________________________________
Post your ad for FREE! http://personals.yahoo.ca

#16

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:

marc_pinsonneault wrote:

> I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
> How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns

and

> Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
> 1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one

thing

> for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but

quite

> another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the

outcome.

The neutrals didn't switch on turn 1, but it was fairly early (turn
3-4). We southern neutrals (I was Harad) dickered around for

another few

turns while AR & CA were overrun. There was a lot (LOT!) of wailing

and

gnashing of teeth on both sides to try and woo HA and CO. In the

end, we

both went FP, although to no avail. Had we gone FP earlier, things

would

probably have been much different.

    jason

No it would not have, you are not that good of a player. The DS saw
at most 3000 Harad troops the entire game, how lame.

Brian

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
E pur si muove!

#17

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "blchezluis" <blchezluis@a...> wrote:

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:
> marc_pinsonneault wrote:
>
> > I'm not in this one, but it does bring back some memories.
> > How often is it possible for the free to win when both the Duns
and
> > Rhuduar go dark right out of the opening gate? This happened in
> > 1650/310 and it was over within a very short time. It is one
thing
> > for neutrals to decide to join an obviously superior team, but
quite
> > another to have turn 1 declarations effectively decide the
outcome.
>
> The neutrals didn't switch on turn 1, but it was fairly early

(turn

> 3-4). We southern neutrals (I was Harad) dickered around for
another few
> turns while AR & CA were overrun. There was a lot (LOT!) of

wailing

and
> gnashing of teeth on both sides to try and woo HA and CO. In the
end, we
> both went FP, although to no avail. Had we gone FP earlier,

things

would
> probably have been much different.
>
> jason

No it would not have, you are not that good of a player. The DS

saw

at most 3000 Harad troops the entire game, how lame.

Brian

And add to the fact you had stated you were going to go DS, and then
backed out because you didn't want to tangle with the Corsairs. Give
me a break, RH and Dunn together do not equal a turn 8 Corsair,
Harad, and Easterling. The DS just outplayed you all. Congrats to
those who were willing to still spend money on the game.

Brian

PS No hard feelings to the Corsairs or Easterlings who had never made
such claims of going DS.

···

>
>
> --
> Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
> E pur si muove!