I am really confused. We were winning. Why did we surrender?
- Steve M.
Obviously, you guys were about to collapse en masse! The weaker-willed leaders must have succumbed to Sauron’s gaze.
Mark F.
If you were the FP, then why did you surrender?
Noldo/Sinda losing MT’s, Elrond/Galadriel turned 2+ Curse groups into 1+. Sinda under attack from 5 different nations. Pops being revealed, off map armies coming from the North and beyond. Imladris gone, intel reveal Dol Amroth was no longer SG (Murazor was in SG for eons after taking various pops from North down towards there). DS icons multiplying, massive agent and curse companies finding precious few targets then getting cursed from more than 1 duo themselves (see Elrond and Galadriel).
With multiple characters scattered across the “known” map, various palantirs and spells filling in much information, off-map DS MT’s, etc. The Elves saw no evidence of FP activity outside of some battles in Rohan, but a continuous stream of DS activity and successes. From the Elven perspective 30 turns of mystery and only evidence of DS power (even from a nation deficit position) initiated the call to end. The particular DS hammer on the Sinda with both Elven economies weakened was the last straw.
We communicated poorly via the 5 turn diplo method, but then only 1 player appeared to have communicated at all and only the first 2 opportunities, until he disappeared. Might we not have called the end if we heard of better tidings across the lands? Might have.
Riddle me this: Why do you think the FP were winning, at which point, why did you vote to concede?
1/2 the Elves
Weak…or bored and frustrated. Northmen out early as multiple “combo’s” attacked together, Sinda being attacked similarly. And some strategic mistakes in an unfamiliar scenario and module certainly added fuel to the “this is done” fire.
Meanwhile, I’d like to say the WK was particularly frustrating, as was the Dragon Lord in the early game, I have to expect he bankrupted himself with him consistent military attacks - game plan from the get-go tossed into the scrap heap, then a thoroughly dismantled Northmen died and a multiple SS’d Noldo picked up and started from scratch early on. Kudo’s to the DS here, while it appeared for a bit when it was 5 DS down to 3 FP that we’d gain an ascendancy, well, the Elves never saw evidence of such. Complacency and isolationism amongst the other FP?
Elven companies cruised Mordor MT’s/Capital with the multiple curse squads and agents, found few targets and lost key characters from next-door cursers (little stealth, no double scouts…??..argh…) causing reorg turn’s over and over again. Attempts to play a role beyond our nation borders cost mightily when our borders were crashed from beyond, so to speak.
1/2 the Elves
The only evidence of FP play I saw came from the Sinda and Silvan, well played there, a constant thorn in my side. Apart from the odd incursion by a Riders army no other FP pressure on Mordor. The hardest thing I as DS had to contend with was my economy through the winter…
I was finding it harder to find any FP targets to take on. Rhun was cleared and the DS were pushing further and further afield. Unkle Bully was having fun roaming around challenging Freep characters…4 dead Rangers at 2508 one turn, 2 riders…it`s going to be fun checking back through my turns and writing a report…
PS, whoever assinated Dendra Dwar may well have saved me from bankruptcy…I`d retired all but 100MA and was selling everything every turn at one point
I guess this means the GB nondisclosure is lifted.
As the WK, I had no real financial problems, since I went for the more economic game (and never had a coordinated attack mounted on me). My brother Mike played the CL, and his agent core probably wasn’t as good as many CL nations at this point, but our economic base was pretty mighty. I took Belegost, upgraded it to a City, then used it as a recruiting base that took all of Western Eriador (Bree, Imladris, Forlond, Mithlond-East, Mithlond-West, all the ranger villages etc etc). There was much less resistance than I expected - most of the FP characters were bouncing around Mordor in agent/curse companies, not protecting their interests back at home!
When the opportunity arose, we elected to rescue the Corsairs from the brink of destruction (neg 15k deficit and 4PCs when I took over) - and it made my efforts slower. We decided to go after the Ranger/SG/Silvan set, and we saw a gold x-fer to Linhir (the Rangers again!) - so we took it and Dol Amroth, the next goal being the rest of SG then consolidating the rest of the area west of the Misty Mtns. Murazor stayed at Dol Amroth to coerce the persistenly annoying populace - and even thought their will was strong, we slaughtered enough to place them under our yoke. We gave the SG cities to the Corsairs since he had the supporting commanders to mount a military assault. All the WK commanders were pillaging the NW, and the CL … well he had very few commanders.
Aragorn II was being a little annoying threatening away PCs, but it was only a matter of time before the knife was in his back. Or General Ulduin would catch him . . . .
Our use of diplos on the DS side was poor as well, but personally I prefer the fog of war element to the game. I appreciated the DkLts sending out a diplo with the artifacts he had found. We had an awful start to the artifact game (no one at start with any artifact spells) - so we gave up rapidly, and resolved to tracking characters. Many of the big artifacts were in the water anyway!
Many thanks to the IK for the gold shipment to the Corsairs - a few turns later I bought out steel, and made multiple product shipments to help out when I had excess resources.
Dragons really weren’t a factor for us - every time I got one, he left before he could be used well.
I expect that this game was much more enjoyable for the DS than the FP!
:fork: <<<---- it’s done!
Mark F.
I was playing the Riders/RE combo in my first gunboat.
RE kept alive barely by the gift from the Riders of an ex WW MT.
Riders going well until a recent major capital hit wiping out my mount producers.
Had a decent emmi squad taking PCs from the DS, but I couldn’t do more militarily than hold off the DS.
Thanks all for the game. Congratulations to the DS.
Paul
Because, apparently, I was outvoted. I voted to continue.
Interesting. I sent out a team diplo in EVERY 5-turn segment. And I received several. Here’s the entire Diplo history from my perspective:
Subject: Fwd: ME/2950 Game 220 Diplo Note to Fellow FP from SG/SY
DS using 3017 road.
Any plan 2715, 2305, 2006?
Goblingate armyless T4.
Sylvans Supporting Rhun, SG against CO QA
Locating A15, A188 3228 SG retrieving
SG captured 2730, CO 2628
CO navy down to 5T, SG navy destroyed
Send timber 2227
Camp 1725 1825 1824 2024 2323 2123 2222 2423
TEAMWORK!!! SEND DIPLOS!!!
Dw Dun SS T4 (Sorry)
DrL Gaskbuz 700 troops 2212
WW troops 2017 1918 2119
Turukulon 2004
Dun hit hard StlGold
Camping:
Dw 0712 0713 0813 1404 1504 3414 3514 3612 3614 3712 4427 4429 4431 4433!!!
Dun 1422 1423 1426 1522 1526 1619 1622 1722 1724
50 words so far
-
moving to 1715 to help Duns
-
Artifacts at these areas
a, #187 @ 1727
b, #152 @ 1939
c, #180 @ 1106
d, #185 @ 1920 -
We have #15
Received T11:
Duns pls 230 WW capital Rohan will 498 enough troops arriving Have taken WW other MT
Rohan economy difficult to take WW capital Help?
Rhun alive but supporting Riders Din often at 4014
Rhun 1200HI 4321
DS icons at 3318 and 2715
Sent T13:
Dwarves almost bankrupted 95%
Artifacts:
Have #21
#102 @ 2212 T10
#185 not @ 1920 T12?
#133 @ 2506/2507/2607/2508 T12
Saruman has Curses
WW MT 2117 Army AND Turukulon
Camps:
Destroyed 1502 1920 4236 4433
Attacking 3924 4126 4026
Taking 1623 1715 2018 2118 3925
Took 1923
50 words so far
Received T13:
“SG owns 2430, 2039, 3234, 2730, 3533, armies 2039, 3234, 3533, will move against CO QA. SG captured CO transports 2628. DS camps 2134, 2735. DL army 2711 Duran, Dog army 2811. Sylvan army 2715 suicide attack. Sylvan 600 HI 4413. WM moving armies Goblingate. 3822 loyalty 40 no army.”
Matt
Sent T16:
NG:
SS T9 T12 T13
Taxes were 96% (Repaired)
Lost most Pops (Fixing)
Dwarves:
Economy repaired
Bridges down
Have Camp, Army, 7766 Timber at 3538
Adding Emmies, 2000 Mounts, 4000 Leather T16.
Dunlendings:
Moving to SabFort 2119 lots
WW has MT 2119 2117 1922 (Grrr)
WW has 1600 HI 1918
50 words so far
Received T17:
Elves cursing with emissaries. 2119 Rohan when Duns
diplo’d last turn, Elves on it and More. Saruman a
target, this area should be clear. Moving to various
Mordor MT’s next.
Northmen likely dead when you read this. Multiple DS
attacked continuously.
Sinda econ bad, no military from here.
Received T18:
Sylvan own 3822
SG threatening 3034 next 2734, 2438
Sylvan burnt 4415, killed DS armies 2715, attacking Dog 3109
BS took 4413
Assassinated Akhorahil, Storlaga, Naldurgarth, Aab
Emis at 2715 moving 3109
Rangers threatening 2006 next 2305
Dog owns 3109, CL v/t 3437, Rangers own 2508
Rangers, Sylvan, SG strong!
Sent T22:
Dwarves dead. After Cap moved Taxes to 133%.
NG struggling but liveable.
Duns trying to ensure WW is disfunctional.
Agents Capturing Corsair Emmies in 2734 then heading to Corsair Capital.
Army in Hex 3605 is just under 1600 HC/ST/ST Captain Vuglug of
DkL with low morale and training.
(Not yet sent)
50 words so far
Received T25:
SG, Rangers cursed, assassinated, few characters, pop centers left. Sylvan ok
WK, Dog hit hard, moving emis to attack 3124
Moving agents to 3221
WK MT 2209, 0812, 3124, 2006. Dog MT 3624, 3822, 3221
Need to emis CL
Sent T27:
NG Cursed, assassinated, 1 Commander/Agent 1 Mage left (naming 1 Cmdr now).
May recover but mostly just keeping them off youse guys.
Duns Cursed a lot, built back up to 14 Characters and going strong. Still have good Agents.
Heading back soon into Corsairs territory with Agents and Emmies.
50 words so far
I thought we were winning because I saw no evidence of sustained successful DS military activity anywhere but in the Sea of Rhun theater (and that was my fault, 3 stupid moves in two turns left my Capital with no defending Army, which sat and watched the Capital burn from one hex away).
Despite inheriting NG on the ropes (with THREE SS turns) and repeated DS character attacks, NG never went under and was sustaining a rebuild rate of two Characters per turn.
It looked to me like the DS were desperately trying to find targets anywhere they could, and I unfortunately gave them a few at times but overall I was watching lots of their Pop Centers come to us and only a few of ours going to them – with plans to take them back in motion.
For the last several turns, in fact, I was frustrated that all the “known” DS Camps I was visiting to Emmy strike turned out to be FP-owned – clearly I was not the only one pecking away at the DS.
So all evidence I could see had the DS desperate and waiting for us to come take things more central to Mordor away from them. So I was ramping up to do just that. And then the surrender request came in. I was baffled.
I did NOT vote to concede. I voted to CONTINUE. Near as I can tell, I’m the only one who did.
:: sigh ::
Does anybody play a game to its actual conclusion anymore?
Apologies on the vote part, my partner since advised me that it was indeed a majority, not a unanimous vote the carried the day.
I did not save the diplo’s, and I certainly recall a couple of those above, even the one about the elves… 
But there are others that I cannot recall at all. T 18, 22, 25 and 27 nope, no recollection of those at all. T16, nope. T13 one, yes. T11 nope. The first 3 yes. I’m not making any claims as to whether they were sent out or not.
WK had the NWest corner (Mithlonds, etc) Imladris, SG hammered from my perspective. Multiple nations attacking Sinda, Curse companies roaming Mordor MT’s as per our diplo, killing numerous army coms and blowing various fortifications (Morannon, Durthang, Dol Guldor). Very little FP iconic activity. Some Ranger icons on the Noldo map, investigating Noldo camps on occasion whilst the WK had his way with us in the back end. The odd pawn in Mirkwood we saw also. No impact into Mordor beyond 3822 being FP at some point and 3533 being SG I believe.
We also found numerous DS appearing pops turn out to be FP. We made a concerted effort to double-palantir from turn 5 onwards and had most of the map filled in, sending our training agents out to ID them in numerous circuits around the world. Of course, the palantirs also advised us of various off-map, from scratch DS MT’s.
Our poor success in the character game, our main Curse/Emissaried dead (Elrond/Galadriel) severly reduced their effectiveness. The DS apparent focus on us amongst others (but apparently not all the FP…??) and the decided lack of FP VP’s on Page 1 of our shared pdf’s (950/825/825) really put the game into the “lost blindfolded in a strange wood” feel for us, frankly. We tried many things and were successful in many, but with our economies/character bases slowly eroding and Hidden pops being revealed well, we called it a day. And from the Majority requirement and the number of players, it would appear you’re alone in your assessment of the situation.
So it would seem.
Again. :: sigh ::
Ah, well, a break from Gunboat for a bit, I think. I was all motivated to try to form a 2950 Gunboat club, membership restricted to those who never dropped a game without warning, but Clint has pretty well demoralized me in that arena for awhile.
- Steve M.
Interesting game from the IK’s point view. No real pressure on Mordor after the Dwarves were eliminated. It is tough to win 2950 non-grudge as FP, IMO.
Still placing camps 
Dk Lts and IK spent a lot of time/resources trying to secure Mordor so our contributuion was cleaning up the Sea of Rhun (DK Lts) and some pretty nasty curse/agent action. In the past couple of turns we foucused on projecting force west and north of 3017
Congrats to the other DS
IK
Note, in repsonse to Steve and just for general information. We’ve updated the FPs so that they are stronger (another game where they lost, using the old format of nation allocation). Also the Player Pool works much more effectively for pickups so that’s benefited the game as well.
Diplos: Most players don’t use them. 
If players are up for another game the new format would be used. I’d like to see how it impacts on the game.
Clint (GM)
Diplos: As a player I find it very weird that players don’t use them. 2950 seems to suffer even more from that than the 1650 game for some reasons. It’s an advantage that seems to benefit whichever sides uses them the most effectively (regardless of allegiance).
Clint (player)
Fyi, here is the ruleset for game termination in a Gunboat game:
End game:
No more often than once per five turns (ie turns 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 etc), a player may request that their team vote to concede. Each surviving nation on the team gets one vote. If 2/3 or more of the surviving nations on the team vote to concede, the game ends. Votes are confidential (including which player requested the vote) and are solicited by ME Games. A “no-response” is considered to be a vote to continue play. The other team is not informed the vote is taking place unless the vote is successful, at which point all players are notified, the final turn is run, and the game ends.
Sorry it was frustrating for you Steve. You had 8 Nations left, so at least 6 said to quit. We were intentionally working off people’s maps and directing against specific Nation sets. The VP thing is a good indicator of how precarious your situation was - the DS had 1550, 1500, 1483 in this last turn. The FP used diplos MUCH more than the DS did.
Clint, we are ready for the next 2950 GB game when you are. Could you repost the new Nation pairing again, or direct me to a link with them? Also, we’ve removed the dreaded three Nation thing, correct? I am glad to play in a dedicated no-drop fashion, not quitting until I win. 
Mark F.
I`d be happy to share at game end any pdfs or xmls. You can see how carelessly I bankrupted the Long Rider when Din was doing such a good job on the Nmen and Ea.
Also I`d love to see just who owned what and where on the map with all the xmls input.
I’m a PDF/XML whore so I’m up for sharing.
It will, unfortunately, reveal what appeared to be a very drunk Dwarven King right before they died. I had a grand plan in motion and I ran the ship onto the shoals rather effectively.
:: sigh ::
- Steve M.