Game 55 in 1650

General
#41

I could be wrong, but I think Bradford is simply saying that he is not using neutrality as an excuse for isolationism. Rather, he is pursuing a policy of ‘engagement’. I don’t think he is actually contrasting his style of play with that of any other neutral. If I read him correctly, he is merely responding to your light-hearted message about the difficulties of operating as a neutral under the inherent political pressures. If he has declared, I haven’t heard about it. One gets the feeling that when Bradford declares there will be no uncertainty about it.

Sincerely,

Prince Celdrahil
Chairman, Dept. of Political Science
University of Southern Gondor
Ithil Pass Campus

#42

Rhudaur Hasn’t declared and yes you are correct in your assumption about his meaning, at least in my narrow vision. :slight_smile: Dunlend - What a shame. You should have at least waited for your allies to be able to help you :cool: Cardolan is a numerically superior nation and now he’s pissed and geared up. Witch-King can’t do to much to help because he lost 2305 and is being pressured by myself. So any help he will muster will be morale at best.
Witch-King I hear you are doing a lot of smart and cool stuff :wink: I hope I don’t dissapoint you. I will try and raise myself to your challenge. I have played your position before and found it to be my favorite :smiley: With support from Mordor you will in a one on one basis be able to drill me. My only hope is that Dunlend be dealt with fast and we can bring in pressure from a slew of areas. We will see how you do at 1805. You will probably win. I was hoping to get passed you but kudos on the block.
Big-Doug

#43

(Back from my vacation)…

Nah, I haven’t declared, although I’m watching events in Angmar and Dunland closely at this point. I was sitting here huddling in my OWN population centers, but it seemed appropriate to give you a hard time for doing exactly what I’m doing myself.

Bradford - Rhudaur

#44

Dont run, dear peolpe of mordor we come in peace :smiley:

Easterlings :cool:

#45

Just because an army drops by on your pops that is no reason for hard feelings, look at me already the Noldo are on my MT and I am smiling my heead off :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Yes, thank you for being such an excellent host. two turns of exquisite goblin ale. We the noldo do thank you for your kindness and hope we and/or the other free can join you at capital in the future. (Note to the rest of the free, do not eat the cavier, for more information ask the family of Dae atar of the sinda).

For a dark servant your not half bad.

In fact, hopefully you could convience the QA to be as friendly and accomidating as you have been to the Easterlings now that they have joined him for toast, jelly, and tea.

Also, could you please ask your refuges to leave the misty mountains, there be dragons up there and they could get hurt.

See ya,
Kitirat, rose sniffer of the gardener for the gardener of the chief chef of the guy who was the shoe cleaner of the human servant who knows of elves (through drunken stories told in Bree) who are of of the house of Elrond.

#46

Okay, that sounds reasonable :smiley:

#47

Hey Adunaphel,

I know your known for being quite but this is to much. Have the Easterlings caused you to become quite for good? I bet he does more damage with his nation here then you do in other games :slight_smile: . I will be pressing Simon to squeeze you badly. Your luck seems to be holding though as he is taking pity on you. Good Luck my friend as you will need all you can muster :stuck_out_tongue:

Arthedain

#48

I hadn’t wanted to join the war this early, but it seems the Free Peoples are making the decision for me. That is, unless Southern Gondor does not speak for all of the free. If not, the please speak up. I’m not going to go into how sad I think it is to delcare war on a neutral simply for desire of a powerful artifact. Everyone has their own opinions on what is wise, I suppose. For posterity, I am including the entire thread which will illustrate the forcing of my hand.

Sincerely,
Scott
Corsairs

Scott,

I’m sure you knew that my team would interpret the unannounced
appearance of
your navy next to my capital as aggressive. Including the other
neutrals,
every player I talked to about the move said the same thing. More
importantly, I simply couldn’t allow you to sail away with the Ring of
Wind.
We found it impossible to believe that you both located and planned to
utilize the Ring of Wind yourself. I have no doubt that I would have
seen
that ring again on a DS agent’s hand while he was running around
Southern
Gondor kidnapping and/or killing my commanders.

If you had wanted it, you could have asked us for it as a condition for
joining our team. We had two navies in the area that could have picked
it
up for you. But, I doubt you intended to keep it for your own use.

I enjoyed communicating with you and hope to play with you again in the
future. However, for the remainder of this game I’m afraid we are
enemies.
Some suggested that I write to you pretending to have accidentally
bumped
into you. I have chosen, rather, to be up front with you.

Happy gaming.

Scotty,
S. Gondor

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott McKelvey [mailto:naturist32@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:27 PM
To: Scotty
Subject: RE: No violence

Hi Scotty,

Just a note to say that my continued presence in your
area is now not by my own doing. :slight_smile: I just wanted to
go home.

Scott
Corsairs

— Scotty <otscotty@jam.rr.com> wrote:

> Hello Scott,
>
> I’m sure you know that the Sinda and I are regularly
> patrolling my
> coastline. You obviously had no problem avoiding
> our navies last turn. But
> just to be clear, we will be continuing our patrols.
> Let me know if you
> have any special requests.
>
> Scotty,
> S. Gondor
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott McKelvey [mailto:naturist32@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:59 AM
> To: Scotty
> Subject: No violence
>
> Hi Scotty,
>
> I just wanted to let you know that the navy next to
> your capitol belongs to me. I apologize for getting
> so close to your shores. I’m sure it must have
> caused
> quite a stir! I sent that little flotilla out
> fishing
> for artifacts. Unfortunately, one happened to be
> right next to your capitol. As I see your ships
> mustering for sail to intercept whatever interloper
> is
> there, I bid you a peaceful farewell. My ships will
> be leaving your waters on the next high tide.
>
> Scott
> Corsairs

#49

While this is my first game, I think I’ve learned enough not to post private communications on this public forum. However, I don’t think there is any problem quoting messages previously posted in this forum. So, here is what the Corsairs posted earlier in this thread:

“We would humbly request that our borders be respected and not infringed upon without permission, by settlements or armed forces. Included within this missive is a map with roughly drawn boundaries. These boundaries, we feel, are a fair representaion of what we consider the borders of our nation.”
Note, his self-defined boundaries included the coastal hexes surrounding his population centers
[i]"We have little enough room to expand and trust they will be respected. We shall conduct our own affairs in a like manner.

Thank you.
Lord Angamaite,
Captain in Chief,
Corsairs of Umbar”[/i]

Only, he didn’t conduct himself in a like manner. His navy appeared unannounced in the coastal hex next to my capital. This is clearly a violation of the standards he himself defined as appropriate. I really don’t feel a need to justify my decision to prevent your escape. However, I would like to submit that I had every hope of gaining you as an ally up until your aggressive move. I would not have made a similar move against you precisely because I still hoped to gain you as an ally. Your willingness to break your own standard of conduct between nations signaled to me and my team that you no longer held out any hope of that happening. If you had wanted the artifact and also hoped to continue friendly relations with the FP you could have done so by simply following your own prescription for national conduct.

For the record, I’d also like to add that I meant what I said about having enjoyed all my communications with you up until this point and I do hope to have a chance to play with you in future games. There was certainly nothing personal in my decision.

Best of luck to you.

Scotty,
S. Gondor

#50

[QUOTE=Dendra Dwar]I hadn’t wanted to join the war this early, but it seems the Free Peoples are making the decision for me. That is, unless Southern Gondor does not speak for all of the free. If not, the please speak up. I’m not going to go into how sad I think it is to delcare war on a neutral simply for desire of a powerful artifact. Everyone has their own opinions on what is wise, I suppose. For posterity, I am including the entire thread which will illustrate the forcing of my hand.

Sincerely,
Scott
Corsairs

Are ya honestly saying you didn’t think running up next to and behind SG’s capital to get the ring of wind (which the DS told you about because we didn’t) was not going to provoke us? Ya didn;t even talk to us first. Did ya think we DIDN’T TRACK the ring of wind and going up and saying “I’m just artifact hunting” was going to fly under the radar? Perhaps for a teleport arty or some such, but for the ring of wind? Scotty is new but not stupid. Ya seem nice but that was “showing” your hand a bit.

So I enjoy your “feint” post here saying ya didn’t want to get involved, but I’ll point out for ya: you made your choice, we didn’t.

Hey, who knows, if we get a 4 DS :1 FP neutral split it will have worked out nicely for you.

See ya,
Ken, The Noldo

#51

Are ya honestly saying you didn’t think running up next to and behind SG’s capital to get the ring of wind (which the DS told you about because we didn’t) was not going to provoke us? Ya didn;t even talk to us first. Did ya think we DIDN’T TRACK the ring of wind and going up and saying “I’m just artifact hunting” was going to fly under the radar? Perhaps for a teleport arty or some such, but for the ring of wind? Scotty is new but not stupid. Ya seem nice but that was “showing” your hand a bit.

So I enjoy your “feint” post here saying ya didn’t want to get involved, but I’ll point out for ya: you made your choice, we didn’t.

Hey, who knows, if we get a 4 DS :1 FP neutral split it will have worked out nicely for you.

See ya,
Ken, The Noldo[/QUOTE]

Ken,
I’m sorry. I missed the part in the rules that says neutral powers have to ask aligned powers for artifacts. I also missed the part that says when a neutral starts with Locate Artifact, he cannot use it. As I have said in private emails, it amuses me that everyone seems to think neutrals have to come begging for artifacts from aligned nations, and cannot hunt them on their own. Perhaps to trade to the highest bidder, or for other artifacts. You’re correct, I didn’t ask you. I didn’t need to. I have the same rights as any other nation in this game to hunt artifacts. It seemed pretty obvious to me that neither side would want to give up such an item once they had it. So I mentioned it to no one. I was pretty sure that any team worth their salt would know where it was, certainly. But there it still lay on turn 6! I knew the DS weren’t going to get it where it was. The fact remains I made no hostile moves toward anyone, and explained my presence. It was not I that called anyone enemy.

This all being said, I am not personally upset by any of this. It is all part of the game and I am enjoying this game. If my posts came across as personal attacks, it was not my intention (I should differentiate better from in character and out of character posts). Scotty’s move was a smart one and a bold one. But the fact remains he’s drawn my nation into the game against the Free by his statements. Your team could have asked me for the ring. Did that every occur to any of the Free? Anyone who sees where his navy intercepted mine will notice that I was LEAVING his shores, not instigating any hostilities. I guess in a way its better for me… takes the burden of deciding off of my shoulders.

Scott
Corsairs

#52

Hello One and All,

I have followed this little ruse from afar and I have to agree with Ken. You stated very strongly how you were to be respected in regards to your nation and it's borders. Then you go and seek out a do-dad right under the nose of South Gondor. I don't get why you just didn't send a little private message to the South Gondor player and say "Hello fella just a note to let you know I'm seeking an artifact out and it is very close too you. I will be there for one turn and then I will be gone." That would have been fine.

I hope that not all the neutrals will be swayed by this foolish action. I for one hate the idea of the neutral nations but as it is everyones money and it is the way of things so be it.
I don’t think it will be four to one. They’re are at least two very honorable neutrals yet declared. I put my trust in their sound judgement. If the Corsairs are to become a slave of the minions of Sauron then so be it. With the Easterlings acting as a beacon in a very dark part of middle earth anything is possible.
I ask the Harad and Rhudaur to come to our banner and help us in ridding the world of this pestilence. Dunlendings acting on turn one out of fear and now the Corsairs out of who knows why. I ask For all of us now to right the wrongs and pound our enemies to dust.
Big-Doug

#53

I think it is very clear why, actually. When one of the aligned nations calls you an enemy, let alone the entire alliance, you have very little choice but to end up on the opposite side.

Corsairs

I ask the Harad and Rhudaur to come to our banner and help us in ridding the world of this pestilence. Dunlendings acting on turn one out of fear and now the Corsairs out of who knows why. I ask For all of us now to right the wrongs and pound our enemies to dust.
Big-Doug[/QUOTE]

#54

Mighty Corsairs,

Let it not be said that I have been called subtle. My ally considers you hostile so then I do also. Frankly I don't care. I was informed by the QA that you had been coordinating moves and they had asked you to get the artifact for them as a show of faith. I guess my spies were wrong and you are not against us but for us? Then my brother declare this turn and I will shower you will all my team has to offer. After all isn't this just a bunch of saber rattling from both camps? If you have no ill will towards us then come on aboard and South Gondor will choke down 2-3 helpings of humble pie:)

Big-Doug

It’s just a game…this little game of ours…

#55

Hello,

Firstly Greeting to one and all from the Eothraim. My first time writing on this forum, so it is with some trepidation that I ‘pop my cherry’ and post a maessage.

To the Corsairs - I think that you are being somewhat disingenuous when you say that you had no ulterior motive other than a simple desire to collect an artifact. Besides the obviously provocative movement of your navy off the S. Gondor coast (without the courtesy of forwarning him of your intentions), the Ring of Wind is one of the most powereful artifacts in the game.

Whilst you may feel that you are as entitled to it as anyone else, the reality is that without declaring soon, it is unlikely that you would hold onto it for long. It therefore does not seem credible that you would make such a bold move without the comfort of allies ready to support you.

No doubt you will be planning your military response against us if you have not aready done so. I am just a little disappointed that it appears that you made your decision to join the DS without engaging in any serious dialogue with the FP.

Regards

Faisal (Eothraim)

P.S It is afterall only a game, so I hope you enjoy the (brief) remainder you have left.

#56

Artifacts? What are they then? What’s all this fuss about? Is there a war on?

#57

Yikes! Don’t pull me into this, I just live here!

Flips a coin lazily… watching it as it catches the light… the shadows… the light… the shadows…

Rhudaur the indecisive…

#58

:rolleyes:
I was merely trying to ease you in our direction. That fence cannot be comfortable at all. :stuck_out_tongue:
Come on now boys and let’s git’em :slight_smile:
Douglas

#59

So if I promise to ally with you, my navy will be allowed to sail happily home (for surely I cannot join with someone who has taken it upon themselves to shed first blood; my peoples’ blood)? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

Corsairs

#60

Hail Corsairs,

The problem with talking out of the side of one's head is it's hell on one's neck :)  Let's see what South Gondor says he is a the party that is hopping about.

Doug