Thank you for your prompt reply, Al.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch.....
If you actually looked at the web page you offered, you would see the very
first 8 games all DS, after that, it was DS 10, FP 9. Hmmmm....
Besides, I'm not sure if this is your first time on that particular web site, but
those very same 27 games were up there when I first saw that site, when I
played my very first game, over a year ago. Whatever updates have nothing
to do with new results, that is for sure.
I have seen much older articles that were based on the same "sample size" of
under 30 games. It really struck me as odd that people were seriously
discussing such a teeny weeny set of results so seriously. Seriously.....Anyone
else ever take a statistics 101 course in grade 6 or what ??
Oh, in counter to facade's comment that because DGE didn't post results that
prove the game is balanced thus it wasn't…what kind of circumstancial
logical circle of unreason is that … ???
Quite frankly, it seems to me, from some direct questioning that I haven't
posted on this list, sorry Al, I don't share my entire life history with you, it has
never seemed to me that the DS win any unreasonable amount more than the
Free RECENTLY. I have seen sooooo many people tell their own bio's about
pretty evenly split personal gaming history,and then turn around and say that
the game is unbalanced...it seems, just because that is the prevailing opinion.
Noooo, you don't think people just go around "believing" things that could
very well "sound" good, even if they contradict their own (albeit, somewhat
limited…) experiences? What? In this Enlightened day and age? I mean,
hasn't EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS AN OPINION ABOUT THIS gone to
the GM's and received complete listings of all the results, thus ensuring that
their opinions were of the "informed" variety ??? I know for a fact that our
esteemed A. H. here must have, otherwise he wouldn't have slapped me
down so quickly for my childish innocence…
Regards,
Brad Brunet, who can't imagine neutrality protecting Rhudaur for very long.....
···
On Sun, 14 January 2001, "Alan Hamilton" wrote:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>A recent compilation of game results, supposedly
updated</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>11/18/00.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><A
href="http://www.middleearthpbm.co.uk/main/statisti.htm">http://www.middleearthpbm.co.uk/main/statisti.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If it wern't possible to win as the FP, the DS would have a
100%</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>win ratio, not a 66% win ratio, the fact that the FP won a
game</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>does not make the statistics untrue. We did not simply
'make</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>this up' as you seem to think. As far as agent tweaks, that
limited</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>the power of mid ranged agents, that double character guard
bonus</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>thats in the book is untrue, far to many 70pt agents have been
cut</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>down by 90-100 agents(every single time), and the FP have
just</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>as many mid</FONT><FONT size=2> level agents as the DS do, the
high powered agents</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>are the DSs</FONT><FONT size=2> advantage, and those are
virtually unaffected.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Instead of trying to discredit something</FONT><FONT size=2>
by denying compiled statistics</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>, explain to us all</FONT><FONT size=2> how it was in the game
designers grand</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>sceme for the DS</FONT><FONT size=2> to be able to place a few
camps and generate</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>a constant</FONT><FONT size=2> stream of 30k combat modifiers.
Perhaps your games are</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>this close as the FP because you're opponents are not
doing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>this. If you don't accept the game statistic results
posted</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>by Bobbins, then by all means compile your own or
poll</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>the player base on who they feel has the upper hand in
the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>game(which was what I suggested).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If you really want to play the underdog, play the Eoth,
Woodmen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Dragonlord or Witchking, all of whom look forward to
nothing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>but a world of hurt when their turns come in, they have no
neutrality</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>to spare them hostilities in the early game.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:ditletang@canada.com"
title=ditletang@canada.com>ditletang@canada.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:mepbmlist@egroups.com"
title=mepbmlist@egroups.com>mepbmlist@egroups.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 14, 2001 8:42
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [mepbmlist] Game
Balance</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><TT>On Sun, 14 January 2001, Nick Barnes wrote:<BR><BR>>
<BR>> People keep going on about game balance favouring the DS. Facade
states<BR>> that anyone who has ever recruited a dragon is a cheat, and a
figure of 66%<BR>> DS wins is constantly being quoted.....<BR>> <BR>>
Personally I am getting fed up with it, I'm not going to stay silent
any<BR>> longer, and I say that that is a complete load of
crap.<BR><BR><BR>Thank you Nick. I see that in a few ways where I had
previously thought I was<BR>alone in the dark, I am not (no pun
there....).<BR><BR>I too have been getting a little tired of the "facts" as
presented to us. I have<BR>yet to see a recent compilation of game
results. While much of the info and<BR>opinion that we rely on to make
sense of the Middle Earth world we find<BR>ourselves immersed in (facade,
Bobbins, et al..) is excellent, it is also, mostly,<BR>outdated where it is
info, and anecdotal/opinion otherwise.<BR><BR>I wish I myself was willing to
ask the GM's for the results in order to compile it,<BR>but alas, I haven't
the time. I am also a little tired of people saying "this is<BR>what
happened in a game I was in, therefore it is the holy truth".....for
reasons<BR>I am sure you can appreciate....<BR><BR>Having said that, I WILL
share my own anecdotes:<BR><BR>Freep victory in a game where ALL DS where
viable, and Mordor was entered not<BR>once, never even ordered the tour maps
we were so far from attempting it....<BR><BR>Potential DS victory in a game
where they have no business still trying. WK and<BR>Dragon long gone,
Mordor crashed from 3 directions all around, took 15 turns<BR>before someone
finally assassinated someone......yet, those of us who remain<BR>are still
battling the winter econ, the various threatening icons, etc....Lots of<BR>fun
this one!<BR><BR>Moral of the story? Anything can happen, especially now
with this expanded<BR>player pool. The agent "tweeks" have definitively
lessened the DS powers. The<BR>game seems to my inexperienced mind,
quite well balanced.<BR><BR>Also, this "talk" I keep seeing about the better
players "always" picking DS?<BR>I don't see that either. I have played
in 3 games (only) but have seen some<BR>excellent AND well known players
mixing it up on both sides.<BR><BR>I am the type who automatically takes the
underdog, but team wise, I really<BR>don't know who that would be......maybe
I'll just play Rhudaur forever.....<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Brad
Brunet<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________________________________<BR>Get
your FREE personalized e-mail at <A
href="http://www.canada.com">http://www.canada.com</A><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>Middle
Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games<BR>To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com<BR><A
href="http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm">http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm</A><BR></TT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<br><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>eGroups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td width=470><a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=169066.1281467.2883016.2/D=egroupmail/S=1700334760:N/A=560437/*http://cgi.pathfinder.com/cgi-bin/magsubs/cc/subs/fortuneext1rf?EFFORTKEY=FOBTHW2" target="_top"><img width=468 height=60 src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/fo/fortune/yahoo_ban6_fo.gif" alt="Click Here!" border=0></a></td>
</tr>
</table><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt>
Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games<BR>
To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com<BR>
<a href="http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm">http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm</a><BR>
</tt>
<br></BODY></HTML>
__________________________________________________________
Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com