I need a NK for the LAS game 149 and also a player to pick up 2 nations in
the Gunboat 2950. Any takers?
Thanks
Clint
Hello all,
Is this cheating, or is it good play? I'm asking because what one person
might consider as fair game, the other might think is downright cheating.
I know where I stand on these issues - but I'm interested to see what
others think.
Scenario 1
Early on in a game, you get a good relationship with at least one neutral.
You ask him/her to tell you who is on the opposition team (so that you can
exchange insults) and who is talking to him/her and the rest of the neutrals.
He sends you the oppo list.
It's suprising how many people use hotmail accounts. You see the oppos
email addresses. One of them is something like jorisboets@hotmail.com (for
example). You take out a hotmail account called jorisbeots@hotmail.com You
then send emails to the undeclared neutrals and act like a complete tosser
(not too difficult for me) in the guise of the opposition player. People
tend not to check the address that carefully. The neutrals get pissed off
with Jos. They reply to the emails (so 'Jos'=you get the response). 'Jos'
then winds them up even more! They decide to join your team instead.
Is this cheating?
(Sorry Jos, I'm just using your name as an example because it struck me as
a good one - I've never sent anything to a neutral in your name using the
method above. It did cross my mind though)!
Scenario 2
In the dim and distant past, before email was as prevalant as it is now,
initial communication was via the medium of telephone calls, postal
messages and those in game cards thingys. It actually says on page one of
the rule book that, "deceit (between players) is a common and perfectly
acceptable tool in this game. Just because you've received a card from the
dwarves doesn't mean the dwarves actually sent it".
Replace 'card' with 'email'. Still OK? There are a number of handy tools
on the internet which allow you to send fake emails. If you know where to
look you can download a small file which will do the job. I could in
theory (and so could you) send an email to a neutral and insult them and it
would appear that it had come from one of my opponents. The email address
and name would be identical. If I was a freep, I could send an email to
the DS team and pretend to be (for example) the CL and say I hated my
teammates and was dropping. You would have to look at the header details
to make sure who it was.
Is this cheating?
Ideas like this run through my mind all the time! Deceit is encouraged,
but is this taking it too far? Doing this is of course, a dangerous game!
If you get caught out - who'll believe anything you say!
I do have another 'cheat' for which I've just blown my cover with Clint and
been told off for! I'll leave that one for another email in a couple of
weeks. 
Kev
Its cheating in my book.
···
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin" <kevin@bobbins71.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:43 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Am I cheat....?
Hello all,
Is this cheating, or is it good play? I'm asking because what one person
might consider as fair game, the other might think is downright cheating.
I know where I stand on these issues - but I'm interested to see what
others think.Scenario 1
Early on in a game, you get a good relationship with at least one neutral.
You ask him/her to tell you who is on the opposition team (so that you can
exchange insults) and who is talking to him/her and the rest of the
neutrals.
He sends you the oppo list.
It's suprising how many people use hotmail accounts. You see the oppos
email addresses. One of them is something like jorisboets@hotmail.com
(for
example). You take out a hotmail account called jorisbeots@hotmail.com
You
then send emails to the undeclared neutrals and act like a complete tosser
(not too difficult for me) in the guise of the opposition player. People
tend not to check the address that carefully. The neutrals get pissed off
with Jos. They reply to the emails (so 'Jos'=you get the response).
'Jos'
then winds them up even more! They decide to join your team instead.
Is this cheating?
(Sorry Jos, I'm just using your name as an example because it struck me as
a good one - I've never sent anything to a neutral in your name using the
method above. It did cross my mind though)!Scenario 2
In the dim and distant past, before email was as prevalant as it is now,
initial communication was via the medium of telephone calls, postal
messages and those in game cards thingys. It actually says on page one of
the rule book that, "deceit (between players) is a common and perfectly
acceptable tool in this game. Just because you've received a card from
the
dwarves doesn't mean the dwarves actually sent it".
Replace 'card' with 'email'. Still OK? There are a number of handy tools
on the internet which allow you to send fake emails. If you know where to
look you can download a small file which will do the job. I could in
theory (and so could you) send an email to a neutral and insult them and
it
would appear that it had come from one of my opponents. The email address
and name would be identical. If I was a freep, I could send an email to
the DS team and pretend to be (for example) the CL and say I hated my
teammates and was dropping. You would have to look at the header details
to make sure who it was.Is this cheating?
Ideas like this run through my mind all the time! Deceit is encouraged,
but is this taking it too far? Doing this is of course, a dangerous game!
If you get caught out - who'll believe anything you say!I do have another 'cheat' for which I've just blown my cover with Clint
and
been told off for! I'll leave that one for another email in a couple of
weeks.Kev
Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hi Kevin,
I don't think it's a black or white issue, but I
definitely think it's a LOW form of playing. Gaining
some kind of advantage through fake email accounts and
the like might not be "cheating" per se, but it is
definitely not a laudable means to victory, such as
thoughtful strategy, diplomacy, and original insights.
Just my opinion...
Nick
···
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
Hi List
As a person beeing in a game where such E-Mail fake was performed
(actually I was the victim) I can tell that it kills the game....
Game 227 (Hey Nick) ended on turn 6 with two players banned for half a
year.....
The side who performed the fake dropped afterwards.....
Stefan
Nick Cody schrieb:
···
Hi Kevin,
I don't think it's a black or white issue, but I
definitely think it's a LOW form of playing. Gaining
some kind of advantage through fake email accounts and
the like might not be "cheating" per se, but it is
definitely not a laudable means to victory, such as
thoughtful strategy, diplomacy, and original insights.Just my opinion...
Nick
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.comMiddle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Another word on this issue
I totally agree with Nick
I dont like to check all my Me-mails three times if it is
Oxymoron@hotmail.com or Oxmyoron@hotmail.com
Should every player make 9 filters for his Outlook every game he starts?
Me is a balanced game and with good ideas, diplomacy and strategie you
can win the game....
Faking E-mails in my opinion is just a thing bad players need
Stefan
Nick Cody schrieb:
···
Hi Kevin,
I don't think it's a black or white issue, but I
definitely think it's a LOW form of playing. Gaining
some kind of advantage through fake email accounts and
the like might not be "cheating" per se, but it is
definitely not a laudable means to victory, such as
thoughtful strategy, diplomacy, and original insights.Just my opinion...
Nick
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.comMiddle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RD: the issue is not whether -you- consider yourself to be cheating, but how the guy on the receiving end perceives it.
Confession time: back in pre-email days, an Easterling player told me he was dropping. I had a brilliant idea. I wrote to the opposition introducing myself as the standby Easterling player, using a false name but my own genuine address. The opposition kindly sent me their newsletter, which I circulated to my team-mates. We all had a good laugh as I kept this up for 3-4 turns. Then the opposition rumbled me.
Not content with calling me a cheat and his whole team dropping the game, their captain wrote me a long and quite unnecessarily offensive letter, which rankles to this day. The unpleasantness overrode any satisfaction in "winning" the game, becaue I hadn't achieved it by outplaying my opponents.
The moral therefore is, if it's outside the rules, don't do it. -You- might (as I did) think that what you are doing is a clever bluff, but if the opposition view it as cheating, it spoils the game for everyone and creates long-lasting ill-feeling. It's not worth it.
Richard.
···
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 12:43 AM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Am I cheat....?
Hello all,
Is this cheating, or is it good play? I'm asking because what one person
might consider as fair game, the other might think is downright cheating.
I know where I stand on these issues - but I'm interested to see what
others think.
Scenario 1
Early on in a game, you get a good relationship with at least one neutral.
You ask him/her to tell you who is on the opposition team (so that you can
exchange insults) and who is talking to him/her and the rest of the neutrals.
He sends you the oppo list.
It's suprising how many people use hotmail accounts. You see the oppos
email addresses. One of them is something like jorisboets@hotmail.com (for
example). You take out a hotmail account called jorisbeots@hotmail.com You
then send emails to the undeclared neutrals and act like a complete tosser
(not too difficult for me) in the guise of the opposition player. People
tend not to check the address that carefully. The neutrals get pissed off
with Jos. They reply to the emails (so 'Jos'=you get the response). 'Jos'
then winds them up even more! They decide to join your team instead.
Is this cheating?
(Sorry Jos, I'm just using your name as an example because it struck me as
a good one - I've never sent anything to a neutral in your name using the
method above. It did cross my mind though)!
Scenario 2
In the dim and distant past, before email was as prevalant as it is now,
initial communication was via the medium of telephone calls, postal
messages and those in game cards thingys. It actually says on page one of
the rule book that, "deceit (between players) is a common and perfectly
acceptable tool in this game. Just because you've received a card from the
dwarves doesn't mean the dwarves actually sent it".
Replace 'card' with 'email'. Still OK? There are a number of handy tools
on the internet which allow you to send fake emails. If you know where to
look you can download a small file which will do the job. I could in
theory (and so could you) send an email to a neutral and insult them and it
would appear that it had come from one of my opponents. The email address
and name would be identical. If I was a freep, I could send an email to
the DS team and pretend to be (for example) the CL and say I hated my
teammates and was dropping. You would have to look at the header details
to make sure who it was.
Is this cheating?
Ideas like this run through my mind all the time! Deceit is encouraged,
but is this taking it too far? Doing this is of course, a dangerous game!
If you get caught out - who'll believe anything you say!
I do have another 'cheat' for which I've just blown my cover with Clint and
been told off for! I'll leave that one for another email in a couple of
weeks.
Kev
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't think it's a black or white issue, but I
definitely think it's a LOW form of playing. Gaining
some kind of advantage through fake email accounts and
the like might not be "cheating" per se, but it is
definitely not a laudable means to victory, such as
thoughtful strategy, diplomacy, and original insights.
I think it is cheating and the moderator should make that clear.
If you know what your doing, it would not be hard to fake anyones
email address (spammers do it all the time). If you can do this,
then why not send fake orders to Harlequin? If it is OK to do this
to the players, then it should be OK to do it to Harlequin. They
would have a wrong security code but that means they better check it
good. Harlequin would get a taste then of the confusion and crap
that occurs when cheaters do this sort of junk.
Paul
They
would have a wrong security code but that means they better check it
good.
*** Around half the players that send in turns send in incorrect security codes - this would be a big issue to deal with trying to get players to correctly update their turnsheets and send in the correct information.
Harlequin would get a taste then of the confusion and crap
that occurs when cheaters do this sort of junk.
*** We are aware. I have commented on such in earlier postings.
C
Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:
They
would have a wrong security code but that means they better check it
good.*** Around half the players that send in turns send in incorrect security codes - this would be a big issue to deal with trying to get players to correctly update their turnsheets and send in the correct information.
I dare say if you guys refused to run turns for incorrect codes, people would pay attention much more closely.
jason
···
--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!
I dare say if you guys refused to run turns for incorrect codes, people
would pay attention much more closely.
*** But we would have a lot of angry customers and many drop outs...
Clint
Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:
I dare say if you guys refused to run turns for incorrect codes, people
would pay attention much more closely.
*** But we would have a lot of angry customers and many drop outs...
I guess I'm just a little confused. Every set of house rules has always emphasized the security code, and I always assumed you guys would discard orders that had the wrong code. Now you're saying you ignore the code because no one gets it right. Why tell everyone to put it on there if you aren't going to enforce it?
jason
···
--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!
>>I dare say if you guys refused to run turns for incorrect codes, people
>>would pay attention much more closely.>
> *** But we would have a lot of angry customers and many drop outs...I guess I'm just a little confused. Every set of house rules has always
emphasized the security code, and I always assumed you guys would
discard orders that had the wrong code. Now you're saying you ignore the
code because no one gets it right. Why tell everyone to put it on there
if you aren't going to enforce it?
** Just explained why...
With AM we need the secuirty code to be correct.
Clint