la la la la la <the fat lady singing>
Game over… cool (last set of orders to put in according to Rob). I was playing the Northmen, Dwarves (and Harad). Biggest success for me was keeping the Harad alive and beating on the Corsairs whilst being beaten by the QA - thanks to some help from the SG… 
Interesting battle against the Corsair, QA and agent support from Dog Lord and CL…
Thought I had the North of Harad sewn up and them came along the IK ( I think) and FK start armies (along with the CL!) ouch.
Up in Mirkwood took Dol Guldur (not sure what the Sindar was upto - didn’t seem to like recruiting!) with the dwarves and then just sent troops into Mordor with the NM. Northmen had the fun of QA/Dog and LR agent activity and later on the Rhudaur (how come he wasn’t dead!?). Nice to see an Arthedain army in Mordor though…
Lots of fun overall but I found the Dw/NM combo a bit limited and add the Harad and you’ve not got a lot of options but other than that it was cool.
Clint (player)
I guess since Clint is now talking about GB 14, we’re aok to also talk about it. I started as CL & FK. BS dropped at some point and I picked up BS.
Game comments:
My CL strategy was to cripple NG by kidnapping as many of his commanders as I could. I got quite a few. This allowed me to send in emissaries to InfOthr away his pops as he abandoned his southern pops. I couldn’t rebuild the bridge as IK had Osgiliath and there was no way for me to talk to him… So I couldn’t send FK troops across the river.
FK captured Ithil pass and kept it most of the game. FK also had to support the gate as well on several occasions as did CL. My hat’s off to Cardolan for his sneak move with Huge army at the end. a huge Cardolan army that shouldn’t be on 3224 at all given the blocking armies in place was a very unpleasant surprise! CL had 2927. BS or CL had 2622, but i suspect it fell to Arth. FK had pumped 2926 to a City and I was attempting to build a very large MA army there with conjure hordes, but SG or Duns (not sure which) came in with some good agents and causes me some problems before I could move out to Threat 2924. SG’s armies were also proving to be a problem by the end of the game. Of particular sadness was turn before last when my best CL agent (who should have killed the SG huge army commander at 2828. my other intercepting CL agent got the other commander) was whacked by a stupid encounter, losing the ROW in the process.
I got BS too late to do much in the way of procuring curse arties. Fortunately CL got Tinculin in a really major character war with Noldo at Morannon. That was the CL highlight of the game. That one turn, a lot was on the line. CL had a ton of really valuable agents & artifacts at Morannon and Noldo had most of his major characters there & his curse squad. I just knew they were going to curse the ROW holder. I gambled and had her IssPers one of the curse mages & she won! that was enough to allow her to not die from the curses (17 health left) and to assass one. That plus the others that were assassinated by my other agents eliminated the Noldo curse squad in one turn. Only Elrond escaped to the best of my knowledge. Also, she got Tinculin out of the exchange and immediately fled to give it to the BS mage company (which was constantly moving around) The BS curse squad was building up at the end of the game and would have been there in a few turns.
The one ring was in the sea of Rhun, so again, since it was GB and i couldn’t talk to LR, there was no way to realistically go retreive it. If it had been somewhere that I could get it, I would have stayed in the game and tried to get a DS one ring victory. But as it was, the northwest FP were invading Mordor and the top 3 DS VPs showed that the game was over (indeed Blind One, the fat lady was singing), so I told Rob that I felt the game was over and wanted to quit.
I also tried to support QA/Corsairs against Harad with armies and agents in North Harad. At one point the DS had almost taken over all of North Harad. But pesky SG came in and Harad fought back. Then it became an emissary/agent war in north harad that bounced back & forth
General GB comments:
I hope this doesn’t sound like whining, but I think it’s harder for the DS to win GB 1650 than the FP. In a normal 1650 game, for the DS to win, they have to survive the military game in the early turns, and then win with a character war after that. Yet, the character war depends significantly upon information exchange, coordination, and planning. I found it to be very difficult to play the CL as effectively in the GB scenario as it should be played in a normal 1650 game. There were instances where, in hindsight, I should have sent CL agents into 3120 to whack incoming EO armies, but didn’t know they were incoming (for example). And the IK could surely have used CL agents to whack the incoming Card & NW FP armies before they took Durthang and 3123 at the end. But there’s a limit to how much information can be gathered, even with lots of mages casting 415s and 428s…
I definitely think that in a 12v12 scenario, that Corsairs should be DS and Harad FP. The other way around is way over-balanced toward FP, so this game was balanced in that respect.
I think we need to figure out a way to more cleanly decide that the game is over. I don’t really have a good answer, but am curious if others have any ideas.
Over all, it was lots of fun. I did more planning and preparation for this game than any other game I’ve played in a long time. I congratulate the FP! You played well and you deserve the win!
LA LA LA LA (so sings the fat lady)
Dave
Shame about this coming to an end so suddenly… I was in combat with quite a few of my enemy and things were starting to get interesting… boy they seemed to be everywhere!!!
I was playing Woo/SGo… tempted to pick up Har when it became available but thought it would be a bit unfair.
I’m still kicking myself over my missed turn… that really set me back in mirkwood and made me have to change all my plans to accomodate the disaster of loosing 2405.
I spent ages sending help into Har… just couldn’t get a foothold that lasted, but it seemed to give Har the chance to keep going, which was very important… then when I finally managed to get a 2000+HC+WarMa army going to help NGo I found Cities owned by FiK and ClL!!! Sheesh!!!
I knew NGo was having a rough time because he never featured on the top 3 FP… and I knew we were kicking ass in Angmar because Car was there with big points.
Very happy when Art sent an army over to help in mirkwood… and then strange to see Art in mordor when I finally turned up!!! I’m sure that will make for an interesting report.
Acquired a nice Agent artifact early on but didn’t really utilise it to huge effect… couldn’t ever seem to free up commanders to form companies so wasted tons of orders moving people around… I also found I never could get enough money together to name all my characters… probably because my armies were quite big to compensate for not knowing that my allies probably had similar size armies to me.
It’d be good to know who was playing each pair.
Cheers
Michael
SGo/Woo
We played Cardolan/Sindar and picked up the Arthedain early in the game.
First game in five years and first Gunboat ever. Loads of fun for anyone that has not tried this format.
Thanks for ending game Dave, as the writing was on the wall and Tony and I are ready to play another gunboat game. We hoped the evasive movement past your troops at Minis Ithil would avoid your agents. Was our army going to die this turn? Blind Sorceror capitol was about to be visited by our agent squad and curse squad (I think in two more turns)
Great play in the early part of the game by the Woodmen/Southern Gondor player and the Dwarves/Northmen player. We guessed Clint was one of the players (I thought he was woodmen from his reputation).
Tough luck for Northern Gondor/Duns, as he got blasted by Rhudaur early. I applaud you for sticking out the game.
Tony wants to post the turn results, but we are willing to swap pdf’s if anyone wants to swap.
I agree with Dave, although most the other players seem to think otherwise. I think the freeps have a big advantage in Gunboat.
Tim Huiatt
yeah it was a little tough going there for a while as the n gondor/dun…I had the cloud lord, fire king, ice king, dog lord and rhudaur starting armies all after me at the same time and minor skirmishes with the long rider and dark lt armies plus the cloud lord was picking off a lot of my n gondor commanders…it was ok until the bs starting army showed up and at the same time I combined a couple of armies under one commander only to have him get kidnapped that same turn turn…that’s when the bridges had to go…I felt bad for harad but I knew s gondor was helping out down there so hoped he’d be ok…my positions were never in any danger of falling so it wasn’t a problem sticking it out…the emissaries were a problem but I did have dun agents trying to pick them off so I hoped to put an end to that but with all the pop center losses and the corresponding loyalty losses the n gondor is a prime target for emi action and that was probably my biggest worry until s gondor wandered on to one and then I figured that would be under control soon enough…I’m actually suprised the dark servants lasted as long as they did after the military losses they took so early while getting so little in return…bet the dog lord is still cussing about losing his cav to the ents
So the blind one played North Gondor/Duns
Again, thank you for sticking out the game. We gave the duns a little cash but not much else. Blowing the bridges was the right thing to do and then wait for the north to come help.
We pretty much left Harad out to dry after our starting Sinda navy got beat up down on Corsair land. We hoped Southern Gondor was taking care of that as we did not even try to find out what was happening down there.
If ARthedain, Noldo, Cardolan and Duns can not beat up the Witch King and Rhudaur, then the free people will lose.
One thing that stunk in the game is Sinda did not get any stealth until the 23rd character. We killed two agents trying to get some stealth and then finally gave up. We also never got to use our Curse squad. I dont know if we beat the noldo to e mere vardo, or he just let us have it, but we appreciate the curse artifact. We were going to form three curse squads, but obviously the game ended.
Who played Noldo and Eothraim. And why did the Arthedain/Harad quit the game on turn two.
Hi Guys,
Just joined the forum and was surprised to find this much communication on the game.
I played the Rhudaur/Dark Lieutenants combination at start and picked up the Corsairs around turn 11 when the player gave up after loosing Dragon Lord (I assume anyway) and after loosing some major battles with characters killed against the Harad (as I saw when I picked up the nation).
A very difficult game from the start for both Rhudaur (partly due to the fact that Witch King seemed to drop out very early) and Dark Lieutenants (which suffered because I decided to financially support Rhudaur and focus on character war with DLieu). I managed to pull off some very succesfull attacks with the Rhudaur on Dunland before I had to retreat to Mordor under the combined attacks of Arthedain/Cardolan and Noldo and what was left of the Dunland troops. I actually held off these nations from taking Rhudaur for much longer then I thought possible. Unfortunately the Rhudaur cavalry attack on Arthedain died early as the Arthedain had some Hobbit help just at the right time.
The whole game through I could not raise Rhudaur above 13 characters as I was fighting bankruptcy nearly every turn. Dark Lieutenants faired hardly better because of the financial support I had to give to Rhudaur and just when I completed a curse squad on turn 16 to help out the Rhudaur, Dark Lieutenants was eliminated: I discovered that due to drop-outs Arthedain had also acquired Cardolan (I my mind a very unfair combination advantage which should not have happened though Rob did just explain me how it came about) and he combined both nations to attack all known DLieu PC’s in the Misty mountains (7 if I remember correctly) at the very same turn that the Eothraim also attacked the DLieu capital (though I assume the latter to be coincidence). If it had been a teamgame it could not have been more perfectly timed and there was no way to safe the DLieu. Possibly this was when the tide turned against the DS.
From then on Rhudaur could do harly more then try draw some attention here and there by raising armies and quickly threathen a PC before the army was squashed again.
When I took up the Corsairs the nation was close to bankruptcy too and also here the financial situation never really changed. I managed to recover at one stage even though I was short of characters, but just when I was looking at an improving situation, the SG navy joined in with perfect timing and also assissinated some of my best characters. Due to lack of characters I then lost MT’s to emis squads and still I managed not to go bankrupt even though I had some very close calls. Perticulary enjoyed the battle against the Harad (thanks Clint) which was tight right to the very end even when he brought over some Dwarf characters.
Though none of the nations I played in this game ever really developed their full potential, I really enjoyed beating the odds for survival and think this was one of the most enjoyable games I played. I was really sorry to hear my teammates decided to drop the game, I had just taken up the BS in an effort to keep it going.
I too think the DS are at a disadvantage but my feeling is that if WK+Rhudaur became a combination while the FP (Arthedain/Cardolan/Noldo/Dunlendings) are not allowed to make a combination between them the situation in the North would be more balanced.
Now it seems to me WK and Rhudaur are fighting a loosing battle from the start.
Cheers,
Alain Deurwaerder
Well put Alain and thanks for chiming in about your play. After reviewing the game, I agree that Cardolan/Sindar picking up Arthedain is unfair. We should have picked up Harad instead and possibly this game would have been different, as Clint or Southern Gondor would have picked up Arthedain then instead of Harad.
However, with competent play even if you get a Rhudaur/Witch King pairing, you will not be able to hold on in Angmar. Remember, you are only two nations while you will be fighting a minimum of four to five nations with the full might of the arthedain and cardolan against you. Yes I have seen many times the witch king has won in gunboat, but I don’t see how unless Arthedain and Cardolan don’t know how to play.
Coincidence with the eothraim sacking the dark lieutenants capitol while we continued to hit your camps. We did not even know the Eothraim was on your capitol. However, we were never going to let you keep any camps in the mountains as we could not afford the easy dragon finders. We scouted the mountains continuosly and lost quite two or three characters to dragons finding out who owned the pop centers. We figured if you were going to put a pop center there, we were going to make your economy pay for doing it. You could have held out a lot longer if we had not been given the arthedain, but with the Witch King quitting early, you had no chance. Heck, the Dwarves, Duns and even Northrern Gondor had armies running around on your pop centers after we took them.
This brings up another point that I harped on a long time ago. When a nation gets picked up in gunboat. It should be anounced what the pairings are. Rhuduar and the Witch King should have been warned that cardolan and arthedain were working together.
Nice job with Urzahil doubling tharudan, but we needed your mage artifact for our curse squad.
tim
Tim,
I like your suggestion that when nations get picked up the new pairing should be announced. The other side knowing that a nation is picked up shouldn’t change the game. But I also think that in future GB games neighbouring nations should not be allowed to pick up a dropped nation. Cause even if we had known about the Arthedain/Cardolan combination it wouldn’t have changed the advantage.
I see your point about the WK/Rhudaur combination, even with the coordination advantage it would still be very hard and then there would be no point in Mordor to retreat to if it went wrong. How about changing to a WK+CL combination and FK+BS combination? This would give some agent aid to the WK and indirectly to Rhudaur, plus it would easy up the pressure on NG which is a very difficult position right now.
I will copy this message to Clint’s other message titled new GB, cause I think this is part of a more general discussion others should read too. Please react to it there.
BTW, it wasn’t Urzahil that doubled Tharudan, it was the other emis that you kidnapped. He just bribed Urzahil the turn before.
Cheers,
Alain
I like Alain suggestion of changing the pairings for the dark servants to Witch King/Cloud Lord and Fire King/Blind Sorceror. Now if Tormog shows up with the cloak of the abyss and a couple cloud lord agents join the Witch King, the north would be a lot more interesting.
Reiterate again that all pairings should be announced. I am not sure if you should not allow neighboring nations to be picked up. If no one had picked up the Arthedain, then I think the dark servants could have won that game.
Looking forward to a new gunboat game, with just about any pairings.
Tim Huiatt
Alain,
Tim and I played the Cardo/Sinda and then Arthedain nations together…it was a lot of fun discussing the game and strategies with my brother…
I too felt it was unfair that as Cardolan, giving me the Arthedain position was not right. As a minimum I wanted the Rhudaur and WK players to know what had happened. Really I wanted all the DS to know…
I’m not sure what the WK was trying to do in this game. Arthedain didn’t run turns 2 and 3, and he could have really been more proactive. He just moved way to slowly. I had identified ALL of your Rhudaur starting forces/locations by turn 4, and by my calcs, you shouldn’t have been able to take the Dun capital. Then I saw there was a challenge of the Dun character who assumed your entire force was there (the cav was in Arthedain country) and the Dun capital fall…bummer. I felt bad that as Cardolan I hadn’t done more to help the Duns…if we could have just communicated you wouldn’t have been able to take the Dun capital. I also felt guilty about retaking all of the Dun pop centers, and not being able to give them back!!!
We were trying to make this game an economic nightmare for the Rhudaur/Drk Ltnts, and it was pure coincidence about your capital and all the camps…
send me an email to mhuiatt@cox.net and I’ll forward my last PDFs to anyone interested…
later
tony huiatt
Alain,
Hmmm, I think a better combination would be CL and Rhudaur versus WK/CL. I think the WK can hold out a bit longer than Rhudaur can, and the CL can fund the Rhudaur dark hole, as well as support agent wise. But then the FK and DL would be “too coordinated” in Mordor. Perhaps CL/Rhudaur, DL/WK, BS/FK as pairings…
Perticulary enjoyed the battle against the Harad (thanks Clint) which was tight right to the very end even when he brought over some Dwarf characters.
Yeh good hard fight. At one time I was about to move 900 HC off and then the QA assassinated it. Arghhhhh. Had the NM inf the pcs (working on 2135 and 2137 this turn) give a back-up to the Harad and another pc to the Dwarves to recruit. Saw that the Cor capital was on 22 loyalty at one point and then you brought the navy back to stop the inf… nice one.
Didn’t get a lot of characters for Harad… (ended on 8) The original player named an Emi which was a major pain if it had been a Commander things might have been different. With major Emi attack towards the end I ran @1% tax to keep it alive…
Clint (Player)
Note - there’s a discussion set up for changes to the GB format. You might want to post there so that everyone can discuss it rather than just GB14ers.
Clint (GM)