ok, I’ll take your bait Tim. Yes, I believe that CL should be tied with a DS nation. In fact, I like FK/CL (the old pairing). I also believe that WK/Rhu should be tied together to give the NW DS the advantage of coordination that that NW FP don’t have… I’d love to play WK/Rhu in an experienced player GB. I have some ideas that I’d love to try (snicker snicker). Of course, they’d probably blow up in my face and everyone would laugh at me (except my team mates who would cry and curse my name).
Anyway, I like the following DS duos:
WK/Rhu (1910 Fort)
FK/CL (CL pops unchanged from standard 1650)
Drg/CO
IK/LR
QA/DkL
BS/Dog
But whatever… Everyone has an opinion on this and there are lots of good arguments all the way around. The current duos aren’t bad, but I do think splitting up CL’s attention hurts the DS, and if people agree/believe that the DS are at a bit of a disadvantage in the current GB scenario (especially for a winter start), it seems that splitting up of CL’s attention is yet another big straw on the proverbial camel’s back…
Clint has data that shows that over time, the DS & FP win about the same amount in GB. However, there has been a bunch of experimentation with duos during those ~30 games. It’s hard to draw statistical meaning from the smaller sample sizes if we were to look at the results on a duo setup basis, but I do think it would be interesting data. i.e. how many games have run with the current duos and what are the results? What were results from prior duo setups? etc.
I see how CL makes the DS too weak if he’s paired extra-Mordorly, but IMO is too strong paired with a pass nation who can ID targets close to home so consistently.
Consider, remove Cloud from the game, all he does is cause trouble, replace with Easterlings…
Well, it’s certainly worthy of discussion. Besides the WK/Rhu pairing, you are saying that the Cloud Lord is most certainly worth more than 1/24 of the Gunboat environment. How goes Cloudie is how goes the DS. Well, that’s pretty invalidating for the other 11 DS, so, in true Canadian fashion, get rid of the Cloud Lord and you have 11 other DS with greater self esteem - easily a key ingredient to success in their endeavors, no?
Or keep him and find an adequate partner… I think Cloud should only but help bolster the fractured North West, looks good on paper, but then, I have yet to invest heavily in Gunboat so while I may have less say than others, as you point out re: size of data set, nobody really has an “educated” opinion beyond their own anecdotes.
Hmmm. I just can’t seem to get into the “think like Brad” kind of mindset…
Brad, the last two GB no-drop games both ended in FP victory. There was mild feeling that there was FP advantage for the current duo-makeup. This led to my posting above. Taking the CL out of the DS lineup will not help reduce the mild feeling of FP advantage IMO…
And, if you haven’t played much GB, then… ehm… perhaps you should play a bunch of GB and develop an educated opinion?
Not meaning to bait your Dave, but I do agree with your analysis. Cloud lord should be tied to the Fire King. I would probably put the Long rider with Rhuduar however.
And no Brad, the Cloud lord should not be removed from the DS mix.
My Gunboat experience is limited, but the old FK/CL pairing seems pretty rough on poor old NG (especially with SG likely distracted by things down south).
The GB pairing certainly aren’t the strongest combinations, but obviously that is intentional. If things were going to get switched around, it might be nice to improve some of the FP combinations - not to make them stronger, but to make them more interesting (e.g. 2/8 is like watching paint dry).
Dave, for your sake, I hope you never figure out how to think like me…
Tim, as Keith notes, if Cloud gets Fire, play the NG duo and revisit your opinion…that’s one neighbourhood I have some experience…
Keith, 2/8 is quite interesting after Turn 15 or so when you have Dwarven assassins… Emissary nation from the deep dark, is all I can really see with that duo.
Cloud is fine to keep, sure. Rhudaur and FK are likely the best options as weak character nations who can’t play partnership ala QA, Drag, etc… Can’t pair them with Ice, too many agents. Or Dark/Dog/Long - same reasons and/or artifacts. BS is another “support” nation, as is Corsairs, can’t couple 2 of those and leave the rest swinging, eh? I vote keep Cloud with Rhudaur…
Yes the combinations are not designed to make them the strongest for either FP or DS. Noldo/Harad are clearly not strongest for FP and if you were to do that then NG/SG seems a good combo (or SG/Har) … :eek:
Part of the reason is that if you do that then you end up with boring nations. The entire original concept of the GB game was that you fight on two fronts, not just one which can quickly become boring if the fighting in your area ends. I’ve seen a number of players complain about the game getting boring when the area around them was won, so I think that getting nations into one region of the game will, although, make that duo more powerful in that particular area make it a less exciting game overall.
Numbers for FP/DS win tally up closely as before - ie no real change in win/loss as it’s basically 50/50.
I think the present pairings are all OK to play but it can be fun to experiment a little with different combo’s. And if anyone ever wants to try a game with WK/Rhu pairing I would certainly be begging for the honour to play that position, especially in a no-drop.
Also I recall once playing a Rhu/LR combination and in my opinion that gives a better survival chance to Rhudaur then any of the other combinations I have seen inclucing Rhu/CL. And IK/CL would be a viable combination too (though you would need the town to MT and Town to village changes). Very heavy on the agent power yes, but no double scouting and the difficulty of the GB fog of war as to where to send them all.
