Personally I don’t think dead nations should ever be revealed. We had this discussion once before, what was decided?
- Ben
Gunboat 229
Yeah agreed. That’s why there is a 585 order to discover which nations have collasped.
I’m unaware of any decision being taken about that though.
Cheers
Brendan
I’d agree with the dead nation things. It makes it too easy to pick up the pieces. In GB36? (or something like it) I was the DrkLT and once word of the NM collapse was released, I had Urzy and my emmi crew with the VODT all over Shrel Kain and the other NM pops. (Until the FP came sniffing around, I was going to open a resort!) Plus I also think it allows some players to slack. For example, if you know most of Mordor is dead and you are, say Arthe and Harad, are you going to go to Mordor and help clean up, or are you gonna sit back and collect VP’s?
So, no dead nations!!!
Fletch
In regard to picking up dropped nations…
I think its ok. Ideally the nation or nations should be offered to the short handed players first. That would keep everyone at two. Otherwise I dont see a problem with it. Better the game continues than someone rolls over the SS’d nation once they figure it out. This sort of ties in with not mentioning the dead nations. For example, if you have the list of dead nations and certain high value characters are lounging in one of your pops, yet this nation is not on the list of dead, you know its being SS’d. Without the “Dead List” you’d have to figure this out, and what a shock when Ji Indur wakes up after three turns of inactivity and slaughters half your characters!!! :>
I am running three nations in a GB now and actually its kind of a bitch as you have to find a way to integrate the 3rd nation into your plan. Not easy to do since the previous player will have spent sometime doing things that may not aid your nations in the immediate future. In my current case I have to do a 180 with the picked up position to make it work in concert with my others.
Fletch
I think the dead nations should be listed or at least the number of active/dead nations listed. I don’t care to play in game where it is 4 vs. 10 and with no coordination. It is a lot harder to make a comeback in GB once you get down because of the lack coordination/communication.
I also don’t think the 585’s are a realistic use of emmy just to see who is in the game unless it is the misc. order you do in a company.
While most mages can 413 and 415, the Perceive Secrets is a bit harder to master.
I feel there is enough “fog of war” without sending emmys around do uncovers or having mages cast lore spells. I would rather have emmys taking enemy pop centers or improving my own. I would rather have my mages tracking artifacts, working on curses, casting defensive spells and so on rather than working up to be able to cast perceive secrets on nation X.
Also if you don’t make the dead list public, it does give some advantage to nations nearby that share maps with dead nation. They gain an advantage of knowing nation X is not moving armies like he/she should and could be out. This is basically free information that one would get via the shared map not due to any efforts to obtain info.
Steve
But if you dont know its 10-4 nations, then you wouldnt have to worry about it!! :>
I have to disagree on the emmy and mage part. I thin that is a huge use for them. Certainly I would rather have my emmy working his mojo on pop centers. But the 585 order isnt too bothersome to use. It a Misc order so doestn prevent them from doing any other emmy tasks. There are lots of opportunities when you end up on some random camp of an ally and cant influence it so you can issue the 585 and see what you get.
In regards to the wizards, I wouldnt bother learning P.S. unless I already had the chain to begin with or was playing a dedicated Mage nation.
But, different strokes for different folks!!
The map issue is certainly a valid point, but one that cant really be helped. I certainly gives more of an advantage to the DS since their maps overlap, but even then, if a nation is dead, army icons still exist and pop centers dont always degrade. You could go several turns before realizing one of the DS is out.
I don’t care to play in game where it is 4 vs. 10 and with no coordination.
At that point the game is over anyway (>2:1 rule) - designed to stop it being a bug-hunt. I was in GB 36 and agree with Fletch - soon as everyone heard the NM was out it meant that I had to send forces over to re-capture the pcs (partially because the Eothraim had been wiped in the Rhun area so I sent an Agent to 4013 to find out what was what only to find the DarkL with Gothmog there…) When I found out the LR was out I hunted him down and killed his characters for his items (I was fp); I think the BS picked up Din Ohtar - so it was a mad rush to grab stuff.
We’re trying some games with no information about this sort of thing and they seem to be be working fine.
Perceive Secrets is a great spell in Gunboat - especially 1000. Not every order is a big order and deciding priorities like knowing what the situation is or just going with the flow and spending your effort elsewhere is part of the beauty of GB games.
Clint (GM)
Originally posted by Clint
At that point the game is over anyway (>2:1 rule) - designed to stop it being a bug-hunt. Clint (GM)
Has this rule changed? All my GB FS say (>4:1) to advantage in which case my 4 vs 10 example is vaild.
Steve
Oops, yep you’re correct. >4:1 it is. My apologies for that. Note a few Perceive secrets would soon tie down the dead nations. Doubling enemy characters would certainly help there as well.
Clint
Originally posted by Clint
[b]Oops, yep you’re correct. >4:1 it is. My apologies for that. Note a few Perceive secrets would soon tie down the dead nations. Doubling enemy characters would certainly help there as well.Clint [/b]
Seems like the >4:1 should be changed. Otherwise 12 vs. 3 would be allowed and that is a rout to me.
Perceive Secrets puts the nations with a single 30M at even more of a disadvantage. It is easy to say one will 710 for 10-12 turns to reach 60M but it is harder to do in the game. Misc orders like 325,947 and 948 seem to take up a lot of the extra orders one thinks of having.
Doubling enemy characters is fine if you have the chance. This gives nations with double scout, stealth and big agents somewhat of an advantage.
I think the game is fine as is but if you stop disclosing who is out I would like to see a numerical report of active nations i.e. (7FP/6DS still active) or some limited diplomacy like 20 words every 3-5 turns.
Steve
Then you’re no longer playing Gunboat. Make do with what you have and quit griping about it.
- Ben
Gunboat 229, 237
Originally posted by benmin18
[b]Then you’re no longer playing Gunboat. Make do with what you have and quit griping about it.
- Ben
Gunboat 229, 237 [/b]
I am happy with status quo. I would venture to say any “griping” is from those that want to changes things.
Feel free to email/PM me if you wish to debate matters. No reason to let this thread debilitate into inane ~15 word proclamations of little substance as others have.
Steve
GB 229, 30, 237