Mike, you sing to my choir. I LOVE GB. I play in one FA GB and one “no drop” 1650 GB at all times. Add 75 to that as an interesting experiment for sure. And finally add the Grudge Team “Veta Schola” - we’re still undefeated - to the list. I’m exactly at Clint’s magic number of 6 concurrent games. And, to cross post just a bit, this grudge team has several players that should be listed as more competent/better than me on the PRS listing thingy… As you suggested, Kevin Given is awesome! Drew Carson, the Huiatts, Bernd, Marty - they’re all awesome.
I wonder if that could be an underlying problem also – some of those players you mention I know from the message boards only , but haven’t played with or against at ALL or in a Long while , I play with a set of 4 others in one evil game and one freep game and when the game finishes we refill that slot with the same side and am sure those others are looking to get in another game – and I also notice that in the one weekers seems to be an awful lot of the same people – maybe one way to change it is to try and get to play with or against some different players – but will tell you this will be trying to work my way into every gunboat game that I can get into !! Gunboat has definately brought back the excitment , fun and not the same ole thing for me !!
One way to work this issue about neutrals and team mind sets etc…join a variant…like gunboat or an all neutral game or the war of the ring I like also…2950 set but with 1650 add ons for army and so forth…
I think the Kin strife will allow people to try it out also but I would say that if folks are worried about neutrals deciding early what to do for themselves…they won’t have that particular issue go away, per se. Lots of guys will want to see how those early declarations change the dynamic so that they will be more experienced with dealing with the same area in a future game…
Like taking rhudaur and going free then playing cardo or arthedain and understanding better that dynamic…
I think sometimes players, like people in general, fall into catagories about playing on or giving in…some want to fight on for a challenge, some want as close to balance as they can, some will fight on despite being hit hard, some won’t…just depends…like in life.
I don’t get in a twist if neutrals start declaring one way or the other…for starters if you’re that nervous about what they intend…go hit them yourself…or get others to do it…it might not be “PC” to do so but so what…you’re paying to play a game here…have fun and don’t sweat stuff like that…the police won’t come to your door for beating up a neutral or for declaring t001 if you so choose to…but there may be a price down the road…with that player…but again, so what…it’s a game…
anyway, I guess I’ll just attack everyone around me in game 86 and invite both sides to eat me up…so guys…eat me…lol…jk
I think there are a number of problems with 1650 for me that are solved by FA.
The strategies for 1650 are by now very well defined and to my mind it no longer seems such a challenge. In FA the nations and positions are always different and as a result I get a different game everytime and to an extent there is a FoW effect since you only know where the nation capitals are through the Kingdom reports. Yes the camp limit goes by turn 4 or 5 due to the powerful emissaries, but that isn’t the end of the game.
I’m not one for online games like the one described as I wouldn’t pay for it. Online games like Travian are free and suffer from dropouts much higher than ME. I like ME as a turn based game where you have time to plan strategy.
The OBN code is the area I see ME is really suffering at present. Once this is fixed I think there will be less complaints (except from the normal source of complaints I see on this board).
Kin Strife is going to be awesome once the code is complete and we’ve finishing testing it. The power of the Champion characters (3 orders each), the new encounter system, recruiting NPCs and the new map are all factors in its favour. Plus there are only two neutrals who are encouraged to go different ways early, which should help the poor neutral split problem.
Good point. The less you pay the less valuable a thing is. I’ve found that with both the recent “free” games of Untold War that we run and other special offers. It’s a commitment thing.
So I don’t think that cheaper games will actually help the game.
“It is good to be the king”. So good, in fact, men will wall up their young nephews so that they can be the king. Comments over the years and noble poses struck, show that many people have difficulty with a particular concept. That concept is that it is possible to simulate ambitious/selfish/crminal/human behavior.
The Harley game IS a good team game. But that is all that it is. The GSI game COULD be a good team game. But it could also be more. The warping ot the Stassun/Feild game into nothing but a team game is a creative cul-de-sac. Like others on this thread, I prefer gunboat and alliance games—which partly roll back the erosions that render the ‘standard’ 1650 game nothing but a team game. Lets face it, after 8 years of Harley team games it is pretty well exhausted.
Look forward to the Kin Strife. Will someone imagine something few peoplw can imagine? Will it be layered in such a subtle manner that few understand what is going on? Or, will it be more of the same because "teams’ is all someone can imagine?
Ed,
Clint & company have expanded the GSI game (which they didn’t want to run anymore) into a wide variety of gaming styles, each available to players to choose from. When you and I worked together, we came up with the Alliance game and Clint is running it. Kudos to him for being open to input. Just because one of the game styles offered (team game) doesn’t match your desire is no reason to continually beat this drum.
Ed, I know you have a deep understanding of this game, probably deeper than mine. Yet you fail to grasp that the “team” aspect of the game has become dominant
because communication has become faster than in GSI times
because a team will always beat a group of individuals
as Dave said, there are games now like 75, so no reason to complain any more.
As to the whole discussion: I have started playing a free online strategy game some weeks ago. I log in ten minutes on lunchbreak and ten minutes before going to bed, doing my orders and see what happened. Sometimes I forget to do that. Heck, it doesn’t matter! Well, I NEVER EVER have SS’ed in MEPBM! In germany there is a saying that could be roughly translated into: things that don’t cost anything aren’t worth anything. there is some truth in that.
OTOH there is no way I could convince my teammates in that online-game to join MEPBM. Paying money for a pdf turn report? more money per month (for a two-weeker) than WoW or Warhammer online would cost? ordering a rulebook, printed actually on paper? unimaginable!
yes we are old-school (veta schola - Dave thx but I am not awesome, but maybe I will be someday learning from you guys). but we are special, and I like that and fortunately, enough other people like that as well…
Well said Bernd, eloquent yet succinct as usual. Like Ed, I too mourn the “old game” but alas, it is gone forever. Playing in G75 is nice, but nevertheless still yet doesn’t quite capture the feel. Fortunately I like the “new game” too, and Clint’s customer service is head and shoulders above GSI’s, so all-in-all, I’ll take it.
I also agree with the previous poster who mentioned that the thread title somehow suggests the game is broken and needs to be fixed or restored. The game isn’t broken; it is changed. It is an overworn expression but true, the only constant is change. Embrace it, play FA or one of the several variants if you don’t like 1650/2950 (or persuade Clint to start a brand new variant like we did with the Alliance Game).
Not broken, but every mention of an idea to improve or add to it is met with “Nothing new will work, there are no problems, everyone who complains about anything is in the teeeeny minority so too bad for them.” Obviously, nothing happens until 4 years after it’s promised, and only what’s already decided is even up for supposed “discussion”.
Agreed, day to day customer service is miles ahead with MEGames.
If you want to play in a game that lasts longer than most I would recommend you play in a gunboat game. Especially gunboats that do not allow any communication between players.
I am currently playing in:
1650 gunboat on turn 42
2950 gunboat on turn 32
and heck Im even in a FA-1000 game on turn 34 at present.
If you cant afford to play 2 nations at a time get a friend and share the 2 nations in a gunboat, thats what I do.
I get a lot of suggestions on how to change/improve the game pretty much once a week. Whenever a new concept comes up I put out the idea to the list and see if has merit and support. Eg The Gunboat game, The Alliance Game, changes/updates to FA set-ups (this is quite long). We’re presently working on the KS new module and have brought out Untold War this year as well.
I generally have to see what is viable, what players actually want and whether that is an indivdual wish or what the overall base of customers want. For reference: The biggest complaint I do get is player v player communication. That’s something that could be addressed in trying to visualise being FTF and saying the same things that have been written. That’s out of my hands.
We’re developing the code as fast as we can within budget.
KS will be what it will be. There’s no way to avoid the advent of the internet but if you want to play a variant of it with no or little communication that’s entirely possible. Just find me 14 players who want to and we’re set. Gavin and I are in the first test game of that at present and both enjoying it enormously and we have quite different styles of play. Lots of new things in that to whet the jaded palate.
No game is perfect, nor will there ever be a perfect game. It’s not a perfect game and that’s something that you as the customer can help us with making it the best game that we can put forward. That means that sometimes individuals won’t always get what they individually want all of the time, but that as a whole I expect that I’ll aim to please 95% of the players. Trying to please all of the players all of the time is doomed to failure straight off the bat I’ve found in 15 years + of moderating and longer in my gaming experience.
Some players want faster turnaround, some want slower. Some want more communication, simpler, faster, easier to collate their data, others want other things. When I see a desire for a particular idea or development I aim to follow that up, and I think I’ve a proven track record of doing such a thing.
I’ve not had anyone come forward to help with the on-line version of the game so I can’t develop that concept further at present until the game conversion has been completed. Then I can look at what needs to be done to further the game and see what players as a whole want.
How about any idea’s to adding to the orders for characters or improving them – have two examples !!
1 – Notice there is no order to TRANSFER hostages to another nation to hold them for you – have quite a few hostage in one game with one nation – of course CL – and we wanted to pass them off to other nations character to hold them and couldn’t find an order to do this !!
2 – the 765 order should be updated – it should only split the troops you STATE and if don’t have them shouldn’t go into a TRANSFER of the 100 troops of a different kind – i found this out the hard way when I purposely left 100 Light Calvary (so wouldn’t make mistake of transfering them) on the dog lord capital and did a 765 order to transfer 400 heavy infantry to another character but forgot to raise 400 HI so it gave the new character the 100 light Calvary (which I didn’t tell it to split) – who then moved out and guess what – Didn’t have the gold to raise a new army from scratch and couldn’t get that 100 troops back as was useless and would be over run and as a result of this lost the Dog Capital 2 turns later , instead of being able to send out blocking armies to stop the enemy – so to sum it up – the 765 order should only split the troops STATED and not give over the last 100 troops unless they are the kind STATED , 355 doesn’t do this but only tranfers the Stated troops and I think 765 should be the same way !!
Just food for thought , but know I wouldn’t have lost the Dog Lord capital if wasn’t for that 100 Light calvary getting transfered , I mean why state the troops at all then in 765 order !!
David: Actually, it was Drew and yourself who worked out the Allaince game. I saw movement in the right direction and I kept my mouth shut.
Drew: GSI did not publish the names of people playing, publish on a front sheet which nations were still operational and allowed putative players to freely contact each other.
Exploiting the common tendancy for some not to communicate, many an enemy army went off goal to help an ‘ally’ over ‘here’ not ‘there’. Sun Tzu would have approved as did GSI. Stealth/deception/ruses was one of the seven alien concepts incorporated into the Stassun/Feilds game. Recall, Grimma was a character in the epic also. Persons who enjoy strikeing noble poses would have been babes-in-the-woods against the Olde Tyme Americans in the Miami game.
Digressing on the subject of ruses: In Viet-Nam we killed the VC batallion commander in out OpZ with a particular ruse. Some years later I read where the Byzantine emperor Alexis recovered the city of Sinope with the very same ruse. Since, I have used that ruse with both GSI and Harley and it worked. How much more ‘realistic’ can you get, without actually hurting someone? Harley has, inadvertantly, destroyed many of my ruses but some are still possible. When I arrived at Harley I had a full bag of dirty tricks and a whole new universe of Europeans to try them on. In one game an entire team of opposing Europeans gave up without me shooting an arrow----such was the unfamiliarity with the Olde Tyme ‘American’ game.
!! Gunboat has definately brought back the excitment , fun and not the same ole thing for me !!
In germany there is a saying that could be roughly translated into: things that don’t cost anything aren’t worth anything. there is some truth in that.