OK, I toggled show range of an army ON in JOverseer, useful. But I would now like to turn it off and stop it showing on the map!
No option for this on the pull down menu, can anyone tell me how to do it?
Cheers
Dean
Try Tools/Clear map items; or the icon on the tool bar that looks like a yellow, a blue, and a red dot with a slash through them.
Yeah, found the clear map items this morning and it worked, but thanks for this or I might have still have those move numbers on my map!
Dean
Although the topic was already resolved, just wanted to add a bit of a ramble regarding JOverseer. When calculating army movements, it would be nice if it were able to take into account fortified pop centers and non-friendly armies; as it is, it only shows unrestricted movement. Not sure of the mechanics in implementing such a change, but if someone were able to synchronize relations with the army movement, then it might be possible to map such movements.
Yes, this particular feature was always a bit of a nuisance as well. Every now and then I still have to manually count the movement points per hex, when negotiating obstacles in an army’s path.
Because JO calculates only shortest distances from hex to hex, it can seem off. It may not count the route you wish to follow.
And calculating enemy fortifications would probably be impossible to program in. Especially in FA. It even gets bridges wrong sometimes after they have been dropped.
Not quite sure how you cam up with that.
JOverseer does NOT calculate the shortest distance as you said, rather it shows the MAXIMUM range an army can move if it encounters no player-created obstacles (and this can be quite a long distance). What I was wondering is if those restrictions which would impede movement could be implemented, to give a more accurate movement range when plotted.
As I said, I do not believe it should be that difficult to program (although I’m not a programmer myself, it’s only the logic is there to support what I’m saying) and the scenario would make no difference, since all army movement operates on the same principles. The gist is that when plotting a movement route which would cause one of your armies to pass through a fortified population center (or army), it should be able to access the data tables regarding your present relations with that nation whose entity you have encountered, and thus calculate movement based on that data. The same would apply when plotting a route which would pass through static armies, unless the intent was to attempt an overrun. If the data would indicate the fortified population center (or army) would impede movement, then perhaps there might be a pop-up confirmation window asking if one wished to still attempt moving through the hex (such as with an attempted overrun). If certain variables are not met, then movement would stop in the hex where the obstacle was encountered and no further movement would be plotted in that particular direction. However, if the data tables indicated the fortification was of a friendly nation, no pop-up window would be necessary and movement would be plotted as normal.
For example, let’s say that there are enemy population centers on the Dunland road, so at the very least you have “Disliked” relations with them. However, you wish to bypass a fortified population center to strike at one just behind, located on the same road. JOverseer will plot the movement as if the fortified population center did not exist; it only goes based off terrain for the hex. In the same way it reads the terrain variables for the hex, it should be able to read if there is a fortification, and if so, it should then be able to access the owner of the fortification and your relations with that owner. Thus, rather than JOverseer plotting movement through the fortification as though it were invisible, it would perceive it as the end of movement. Then, all other movement points around that hex would take into account and no longer include that hex in the calculation of further movement. Make sense? The way it is now, JOverseer will continue calculating movement even beyond a point which would otherwise make you stop, which will essentially screw up the numbers for adjacent hexes.
As you can see, if the attachment works, is that we’re trying to move an army from 2719 to the unfortified town at 2818, bypassing the fortified town at 2718.
JOverseer currently does not take into effect fortifications or armies, when plotting movement, which is indicated in the pic on the bottom. The BLUE arrow indicates movement on the road would stop at the fortification (if it’s not friendly), yet JOverseer continues to plot movement points along the road from that fortified location. The RED arrow indicates the movement you would like to take, to bypass the fortified town, which mean that (with infantry in this example) it would require 5 pts to move into the hills/rough at 2819, and then 3 pts to move into the unfortified town in the plains, for a total of 8 pts. However, JOverseer shows movement ending in that hex only requiring 4 movement points because it’s assuming you’re moving along the road.
Granted, when you plot your movement points you’re selecting to bypass the road, but you only discover your movement points BECAUSE you are actually plotting it. When you use the “show XXXXX army range”, in this example, it assumes that you’re trying to get to the unfortified town by the road, because it does not take into account the fortification in your way. Thus, when using the “show XXXXX army range”, the numbers are now inaccurate beyond that fortified population center, because your route shows movement as 8 points, not the 4 shown.
Basically, an easy fix (in theory) would be to make the fortification hex read as impassable, so that JOverseer would not calculate any movement passing through that hex (but only with the pop-up addition I mentioned previously, asking if one wished to continue showing movement through the hex, as this is only for “probable” movement, and not actual movement).
There are 6 ways out of each hex…it can’t plot everything. You could manipulate it by moving armies/characters to that hex then issuing army orders to see how it plays out - a lot easier to just do the math. What if allied emissaries were stealing the fortified hex prior to army movement…?
In other news, the programmer has left the game and hasn’t been heard from for months, if not year(s). You know a good Java programmer?
I understand what Heckler is saying; if an unfriendly fortified population center would make the hex in which it were located read as impassable, then Joverseer would not include its terrain points when calculating movement and the numbers generated after that hex would not be inaccurate. As he has shown in his example above, if the fortified pop center were not taken into account when calculating movement, then the army’s movement would be recalculated to move around the obstacle. 5 points for the hills/rough hex (2819), and then 3 points for the plains hex (2818), and show an “8” in that hex (rather than the assume 4 for road movement). That is a simple example but working off of that if one were intending to move to 3017 in the pic shown, current movement indicates it would take infantry only 8 points movement because it assumes unrestricted movement on the roadway. However true movement would plot 2819=5 points, 2818=3 points (as long as no enemy army was located there), 2919=3 points, and 3017=3 points, for a total of 14 movement points. That would mean one would require an 860 order rather than an 850. And as has been said, when the actual movement is plotted out the movement points are calculated accurately but it would be nice to see those points with the “show army range” feature beforehand, otherwise you’re having to count the points manually anyway and then there is no advantage to having the “show army range” feature.
In the version of JOverseer that I am using, there are two ways to get it to calculate army movement. There may be more, but I have found two.
One is by right clicking on a hex. This brings up a menu of movement options – both character and army – from which to select. Those options include:
Show Fed Infantry Army Range
Show Unfed Infantry Army Range
Show Fed Cavalry Army Range
Show Unfed Infantry Army Range
Naval movement options are included where available.
This way does not take non-friendly fortifications into account. It does not take non-friendly armies into account.
The other way is through the Current Hex View screen. There is a button to the right of an army in the hex selected. Left clicking on that button brings up a menu of army related options. Two of those are:
Show Range on Map
Show Range on Map (Ignore Enemy Pops)
Selecting the former will show movement as affected by fortified enemy population centers. The latter selection ignores those population centers.
The first way can be used in any hex. The second only can be used in a hex containing an army. The first includes character and naval movement choices. The second includes other army related information and options.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I’ll have to test it’s limitations further, but from my brief experimentation it seems this might be what I was looking for.
Well, after further experimentation, it seems that the second option is still flawed.
Regarding army movement it states (Part E, Section 11 - Army Movement):
“If an army enters a hex where there is…a fortified population center belonging to a nation which is not tolerant or friendly to the army, then it will normally be forced to stop in that hex.” (I excluded portions of this paragraph regarding evasive movement and armies, merely for clarity).l
So if an army encounters a fortified population center of a neutral, generally they do not have tolerant/friendly relations to everyone (usually their relations are neutral for some time), and so the army would be forced to stop in that hex. So, because the relations a neutral may have with your nation are likely unknown, Joverseer simply assumes that relations are tolerant/friendly, and shows movement permissible through that fortification.
Perhaps someone who understands programming could work from this point, to improve upon Joverseer. If not, well, at least it’s a better option than the first (which, in truth, seems to have no intrinsic value).
I have tried using the second method and have found JOverseer showing armies stopped by Neutral fortifications. One specific instance – at start, Noldo army at Imladris, shown stopped at 2109 by fortifications of Rhudaur. Turn 0. Not a grudge game, Rhudaur neutral.
Our different results might be tied to the versions we are using. I am using version 1.08, Build ID. 2011-04-22.
I have same version, and you’re correct. Neutral fortifications do stop army movement.
I guess it helps that I’ve played so long that the costs for every terrain type immediately come to mind when looking at my army’s move options without having to consult a table. But with that caveat, I think JO has all the army move programming it needs. It shouldn’t take too long for you to simply click in what path you want to take, make sure the fed or unfed is appropriately toggled, and let JO tell you the costs.