Gents: All of this is interesting. Remember the few things we "know" from the writings. This is the end of the Second Age, not the Third. Sauron has a corporeal form. Sauron spent the, I think, nine years Barad Dur was under seige in Barad Dur. He was killed in individual combat by the Elven King and Isildur. Isildur cut the one ring from his finger. I believe specifically "from his finger."
With this, If we're doing a scenario set at this period, Sauron is a corporeal being capable of being what amounts to personal challanged. He wasn't someone wandering about which the DS would have to find, etc.
He's an active character who gets run. On the other hand, if he dies, the free win. As you will recall, when he died, passed into shadows as it were, the Nine also "died" and didn't return until well into the third age.
So, he should be a character but his death ends the game with a free win. I'd think limiting the ways he could die would also work? Yes?
Jonathan
In a message dated Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:27:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, JeremyRichman@compuserve.com writes:
<< It seems rather difficult to have a PC's death be
way of victory. He'll always be in the run from
agents, can't risk getting killed or captured in battle,
etc. Cool as it might be to have Sauron
as a PC, perhaps the 10th DS nation, its capital
at Barad-dur, should have as its chief character
the Mouth of Sauron. Leave Sauron himself out
of it.
Jeremy
--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@l...>
wrote:
From: "kurgan" <kurgan@o...>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario> Should Sauron Die shouldn't he become the lidless eye in say 10-20
turns
and
> become a random encounter?
>
RD: If Sauron dies it's game over, the FP win, end of story.
>
> Harlequin Games wrote:
>
> > We could house rule it - basically no spells cast on Sauron -
and should
> > Sauron die then no new character with that name allowed.
> >
> > Clint
> >
> > >
> > > From: "TONY A & JANETTE S" <janton@c...>
> > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:48 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'd be interested in playing.
> > > >
> > > > How about the One Ring making Sauron immune to all offensive
spells?
> > >
> > > RD: thanks for the interest. I don't think Harlequin would be
able to
> > > that - nor, really, would I want to. He's going to be quite
powerful
> > enough
> > > and the FP must stand a small chance of killing him!
> > >
> > > Richard.
> > > >
> > > > From: Ian Harris <ian.harris@e...>
> > > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > > Sent: 16 January 2001 12:18
> > > > Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > Best way to simulate One Ring would probably either to
increase
> > > > > Sauron's mage skill to simulate its presence OR to give
him a
major
> > > > > Mage artifact? A One Ring which its maker couldn't hang
onto would
be
> > > > > a little silly!
> > > > > Might also want to prohibit Free Peoples from using
Curses to
kill
> > > > > Sauron - if its available in FA game it might make bumping
off the
> > > > > Dark Lord _too_ easy!
> > > > > Also I assume Free Peoples couldn't use the Elven rings
- if
> > > > > available in this scenario - they took them off to avoid
being
> > > > > controlled by the One Ring.
> > > > > Are there any neutrals in this scenario or would all
nations be
> > > > > pre-aligned?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian Harris
> > > > >
> > > > > > What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
> > > > > > _starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
> > > > > > no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
> > > > > > to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
> > > > > > it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
> > > > > > of the FA artifacts anyway.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jeremy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris"
<ian.harris@e...>
wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game
- let me
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur
early
on &
> > > > > > let
> > > > > > > someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava -
at which
> > > > > point
> > > > > > > we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ian Harris
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"
> > > > > > <devereux@l...>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > > > > > > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For
example:
> > > > > > > > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get
to play
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > hobbits!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the
Black
> > > > > Numenorians
> > > > > > > could be
> > > > > > > > > split
> > > > > > > > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish
nation
in
> > > > > > Moria
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > 2950, the
> > > > > > > > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who
knows if
> > > > > > > Radagast had
> > > > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > > followers in the east?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed
by the
> > > > > > > Corsairs before
> > > > > > > > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and
had no
> > > > > > > followers except
> > > > > > > > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be
justified - and
> > > > > > > commanded by the
> > > > > > > > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you are looking for new nations, they can most
easily be
> > > > > > grafted
> > > > > > > onto FA.
> > > > > > > > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations
in
1650/2950.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for
those of
you
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > have read
> > > > > > > > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last
Alliance.
This
> > > > > war
> > > > > > > was the
> > > > > > > > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by
Gil-galad of
the
> > > > > > > Noldor and
> > > > > > > > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a
huge
battle
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > Dagorlad
> > > > > > > > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic
stuggle,
Gil-
> > > > > galad
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown,
and
Isildur
> > > > > > son
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and
took it
for
> > > > > > > weregild.
> > > > > > > > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One
Ring lost.
> > > > > Which
> > > > > > > is where
> > > > > > > > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to
achieve
> > > > > > > the 'historical'
> > > > > > > > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of
Sauron's
> > > > > power,
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's
physical
> > > > > shape.
> > > > > > > Any other
> > > > > > > > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed.
There
would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > a 'race'
> > > > > > > > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies
in the
nw,
> > > > > so
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build
up his
> > > > > strength
> > > > > > > from a
> > > > > > > > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south
and
east.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new
characters eg
Gil-
> > > > > > > galad, Elendil
> > > > > > > > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst
the DS!
Who
> > > > > > > wants to
> > > > > > > > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also
be some
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > familiar
> > > > > > > > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names
would be
> > > > > > fairly
> > > > > > > > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various
Elves
and
> > > > > > > Dwarves. The
> > > > > > > > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North
and
South
> > > > > > > Kingdoms of FA
> > > > > > > > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the
Black
> > > > > > Numenoreans
> > > > > > > would be
> > > > > > > > there too. Which is where I came in.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to
that
> > > > > number) I
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I
haven't done
so
> > > > > > > before because
> > > > > > > > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and
there was
no
> > > > > > > point trying
> > > > > > > > to launch another new variant straight afterwards.
But with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > influx of
> > > > > > > > North American players who knows?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let me know.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Richard.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
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----- Original Message -----
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, JeremyRichman@c... wrote:
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>>