Rather than seeing Sauron as an 'absurdly powerful character with a weakness,' I see him as the single most powerful character BUT the top Elves and Dunedain were not that far behind, due to their association with the Valar (gods). This makes it quite logical that Sauron would fall to successive challenges from Gil-Galad, Elendil and Isildur, being victorious but wounded in the first two.
The most powerful of the Noldor and Dunedain are probably not too much weaker than the elf kings in the Simarillion.
Sauron is clearly weaker than Morgoth.
Morgoth got his ass handed to him by one of the sons of Feanor in one on one personal combat. Hurt him so badly that he never left his caverns to do battle again. That was done by an elf of Galadriel's general power level.
Aside from the Isildur fight, the only personal combat I can remember for Sauron is the battle where he almost gets killed by a dog in the Simarillion and is forced to take his werewolf army and withdraw.
So I think saying that Sauron isn't too far above the Free leaders is probably a fair assessment.
I.E., Sauron can break defenses erected by the entire Sinda nation, over who
knows how long.
Maybe he just had the "reveal hidden pop center" spell.
Winn
···
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Galadriel was the cousin to Fingolfin, who fought Morgoth. This alone
should given an indication about her power.
Galadriel is one of maybe half a dozen beings in Middle Earth 3rd Age
which had been in Valinor or Aman. The others being Galdalf, Saruman,
Sauron (in their Maia forms). Neither Gil-Galad, Cirdan or Elrond was
ever in the Blessed Realm untill after the 3rd Age ended.
Morgoth got his ass handed to him by one of the sons of Feanor
in one on one personal combat. Hurt him so badly that he never
left his caverns to do battle again. That was done by an elf of
Galadriel's general power level.
Morgoth got his ass handed to him by one of the sons of Feanor in one on one
personal combat. Hurt him so badly that he never left his caverns to do
battle again. That was done by an elf of Galadriel's general power level.
Actually, Fingolfin was Feanor's half-brother and Galadriel's uncle,
and I suspect that he was more powerful than she was -- and don't forget
he lost the challenge, even if Morgoth had grievous wounds afterwards.
Luthien managed to double Morgoth so Beren could steal the Silmaril,
but neither of them stayed around to try their luck at anything
more lasting.
Aside from the Isildur fight, the only personal combat I can remember for
Sauron is the battle where he almost gets killed by a dog in the Simarillion
and is forced to take his werewolf army and withdraw.
So I think saying that Sauron isn't too far above the Free leaders is
probably a fair assessment.
Probably right. Still, if his death ends the scenario, it should take
the Freeps a while to get someone good enough to challenge him.
Especially if they can't use the Three Rings. [I suspect that we should
probably just leave the Three out of the scenario altogether, since
the Elves weren't going to use them until Sauron died, which would end
the scenario, and they probably had them guarded well enough that nobody
was going to steal them.]
Tony Z
···
On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:21:12PM +0000, Winn Keathley wrote:
--
"The King with half the East at heel is marched from lands of morning;
His fighters drink the rivers up, their shafts benight the air,
And he that stays will die for naught, and home there's no returning."
The Spartans on the sea-wet rock sat down and combed their hair.--A.E. Housman
> Rather than seeing Sauron as an 'absurdly powerful character with a
>weakness,' I see him as the single most powerful character BUT the top
>Elves and Dunedain were not that far behind, due to their association
with
>the Valar (gods). This makes it quite logical that Sauron would fall to
>successive challenges from Gil-Galad, Elendil and Isildur, being
victorious
>but wounded in the first two.
The most powerful of the Noldor and Dunedain are probably not too much
weaker than the elf kings in the Simarillion.
Sauron is clearly weaker than Morgoth.
Morgoth got his ass handed to him by one of the sons of Feanor in one on
one
personal combat. Hurt him so badly that he never left his caverns to do
battle again. That was done by an elf of Galadriel's general power level.
Aside from the Isildur fight, the only personal combat I can remember for
Sauron is the battle where he almost gets killed by a dog in the
Simarillion
and is forced to take his werewolf army and withdraw.
So I think saying that Sauron isn't too far above the Free leaders is
probably a fair assessment.
>
> I.E., Sauron can break defenses erected by the entire Sinda nation,
>over who
> knows how long.
Maybe he just had the "reveal hidden pop center" spell.
Winn
RD: Nice one, Winn!
Richard.
···
----- Original Message -----
From: "Winn Keathley" <Gnaeus@hotmail.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario
> Morgoth got his ass handed to him by one of the sons of Feanor in one on
one
> personal combat. Hurt him so badly that he never left his caverns to do
> battle again. That was done by an elf of Galadriel's general power
level.
Actually, Fingolfin was Feanor's half-brother and Galadriel's uncle,
and I suspect that he was more powerful than she was -- and don't forget
he lost the challenge, even if Morgoth had grievous wounds afterwards.
Luthien managed to double Morgoth so Beren could steal the Silmaril,
but neither of them stayed around to try their luck at anything
more lasting.
> Aside from the Isildur fight, the only personal combat I can remember
for
> Sauron is the battle where he almost gets killed by a dog in the
Simarillion
> and is forced to take his werewolf army and withdraw.
>
> So I think saying that Sauron isn't too far above the Free leaders is
> probably a fair assessment.
Probably right. Still, if his death ends the scenario, it should take
the Freeps a while to get someone good enough to challenge him.
Especially if they can't use the Three Rings. [I suspect that we should
probably just leave the Three out of the scenario altogether, since
the Elves weren't going to use them until Sauron died, which would end
the scenario, and they probably had them guarded well enough that nobody
was going to steal them.]
Tony Z
--
"The King with half the East at heel is marched from lands of morning;
His fighters drink the rivers up, their shafts benight the air,
And he that stays will die for naught, and home there's no returning."
The Spartans on the sea-wet rock sat down and combed their hair.--A.E.
RD: Confirm the 3 Rings will NOT be in this scenario. The good guys
couldn't use them whilst Sauron was wearing the One. The 3 Rings do NOT
appear in the FA scenario, so this is another very convenient coincidence.
Regards,
Richard.
···
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Zbaraschuk" <tonyz@eskimo.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario
On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:21:12PM +0000, Winn Keathley wrote:
>
> Morgoth got his ass handed to him by one of the sons of Feanor
> in one on one personal combat. Hurt him so badly that he never
> left his caverns to do battle again. That was done by an elf of
> Galadriel's general power level.
Galadriel was the cousin to Fingolfin, who fought Morgoth. This alone
should given an indication about her power.
Galadriel is one of maybe half a dozen beings in Middle Earth 3rd Age
which had been in Valinor or Aman. The others being Galdalf, Saruman,
Sauron (in their Maia forms). Neither Gil-Galad, Cirdan or Elrond was
ever in the Blessed Realm untill after the 3rd Age ended.
RD: Correct. Gil-galad was son of Fingon, born in Middle-earth. Probably,
therefore, Galadriel should be MORE powerful than Gil-galad. Doesn't alter
the fact that Gil-galad went toe-to-toe with Sauron, which gives an
indication of HIS power.
I do, but as long as my home link is down, it is a bit hard to lug
books around to work or Uni all the time, so an online resource is
very nice when replying to things on here
Øystein, who is getting the new "History of Middle Earth" deluxe set.
