I’ve always found the discussion over the fact that nobody recruits light infantry to be an interesting one…I would contend that for many nations light infantry would be an excellent recruiting choice and I’m amazed they aren’t used more often then they actually are especially as defensive armies in rough and mountainess terrains where the amount of troops kept is more limited by expense then by the ability to recruit…after all 2000 light infantry in a mountain hex is worth a significant amount more then 1000 heavy infantry <assuming you won’t feed them and who feeds their troops most the time anyway> and assuming you don’t arm or armor them <and how many times have we seen wood weapons and no armor on troops>…now as the bulk of a nations forces one would expect to see heavy infantry over light infantry…after all, light infantry is meant to be specialized for rough terrain and historically have been overrun by heavy forces in open terrain but they do have their purpose…I know as the corsair I recruited a lot of light infantry before declaring <the QA and CL eventually saw these troops in rough terrain and I saved a lot of money by not having heavy infantry instead>
Light Cavalry, if you have the mounts, I’ve always seen as HI with mobility. Especially if you let them see you coming by moving as unfed HI for a bit then snaking off around their plodding blocks.
Troop types were screwed up in the original game design. The problems with recruiting light troops are:
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you only get 1/2 as much str and con per valuable skill order recruiting light vs heavy
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it is only 1/2 as efficient to use metals on light troops vs heavy
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troop terain and tactics modifiers are insignificant compared to overall str/con
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light troops have no movement advantage over heavy troops
If recruiting light troops was made more economical in terms of metals and orders use, and their advantages in different terrains more pronounced, there would be a real reason to recruit them.
Since resources are generally stretched to the limit, I’m 99% likely to recruit the most str/con I can and use my metals to armor the heaviest troop possible.
A single unit of steel placed as armor on a unit of HC creates 9.6 points of constitution, and 1.1 points of strength if used as a weapon. Much more than putting it on LI…
Adam
I did mention the fact that you wouldn’t be using arms or armor…but since you mentioned heavy cavalry don’t forget you’ll be needing those steel weapons in rough terrain just to make up for the terrain loss in attack strength assuming you go by the 3:1 maintenance cost of 3 li to every cav…and I’ll grant the extra orders but if you’re recruiting heavy cav with steel/steel and it take you 3 orders to recruit li with w/n at 400 units per turn each additional order saves you 400 steel 400 leather and 200 mounts…you will for the additional cost in goods to recruit the heavy cav recieve more mobility and constitution though so that’s a bonus <I will however take this opportunity to state I am all for giving light troops a movement bonus compared to heavy types in rough terrain of all types>
One idea I’ve put forward before is that Light troops could move as fed even without food.
Other suggestions I have seen is :
LI 7/7 (Str/Con) instead of 5/5.
LC 10/10 or 10/11 instead of 8/8
cf HC 16/16 for one extra leather (upkeep cost difference v LC), or HI for upkeep cost of 2 difference.
Another one is to have Napoleonic battles - that’s a big change though. Ie you need Cavalry, Infantry and Artillery in proportions to beat others etc.
Lots of discussion to be had but it’s all moot if we don’t get GSI and so if you can put any more funds into your account that would be a big benefit to us.
Clint
well the li moving as if fed is ok except for one thing…they will still only be able to go two hexes in the rough…even force marching…and hi can do that…now if light infantry only cost 4 to move in rough terrain they could move three hexes if fed and two without force marching if not fed…now we have a movement difference that would allow light troops to out manuever heavy troops in restrictive terrain…that’s why I would go after the terrain costs of movement as opposed to fed vs non fed…as far as changing the actual combat power…unless the maintenance cost is changed too I think we would see an unrealistic number of light troops being recruited…I sent what I could…good luck on the takeover…steve
I do like the idea of a mixed army getting a bonus against a non mixed army depending upon terrain, since archers behind infantry would kill lots of infantry before combat was closed.
Be fun exploring the limits to
Vandal
something else that might be fun to try out would be to allow light infantry to go from mountain to mountain…now that would certainly change the whole complection of the mordor area lol <i’m not too sure this wouldn’t change things a bit too much>
It has been noted in the past that ME combat has little resemblance to ancient or medieval warfarw. This has struck me as strange since Tolkien could read, in the original, detailed accounts of Viking and Anglo-Saxon shield walls clashing. A few minor skirmishes aside, battles were determined by magical beasts or supernatural forces. Apparently, Tolkien did not consider the matter important.
In my mind light troops should not be allowed a choice of armor and always be consider with leather armor and they should get a bonus to movement so if you have only Light troops you should be allowed and extra 2 points of movement. Overrunning an army of light troops should be easier but they would pin down armies till the other troops arrive. This alone would force you to rethink some of the traditionnal strategy. Mixed troops would always be limited by the speed of the slowest unit.
As far as moving from mountain to mountain it should not be allowed the altitude, the weather and baggage train for any army is the same.
We should correct a few oversight in the original progaming to make the game a little more realistic but let’s not remove the flavor.
Jacques
actually I don’t agree that because one unit type can’t go somewhere that none could…but I do think that mountain to mountain movement would make the game too unbalanced towards the free people so it’s probably not worth debating in this context
there are a lot of things that could be done to the combat system in this game…right now it’s fairly basic and I’d roughly equate it to playing civilization but civilization is a great game and I play it much more often then I do some of the more complex military simulations games I have…making things more complex doesn’t always make it better…or should I say more enjoyable…so I’d be a bit hesitant to do a complete overhaul of the military in middle earth even if it does make it more realistic <this may seem like it’s a bit from out of the blue but I can see the wargamers gears starting to move out there>