Mapping program response to Jason

Jason;

Is it making the playing field more level to provide drop downs of
all nation messages, all army movements, new pops, etc to a team who
is too lazy to bother with pulling that information out of the raw
data that is provided in each of the team's turn reports. Or is it
rewarding that laziness by doing it for them. We organized teams who
have people willing to dedicate some time to analysis should have an
advantage.

Having access to the same set of rules as your opponent. Having the
rules processed in the same way for everyone is what defines a level
playing field. Providing processed information for easy reading
without effort is not what defines a level playing field. Maybe a
program should be developed that provides you with all that
information then tells you what orders you should submit in 14 days
would level the field even more. I doubt however that would be an
acceptable situation for those players who actually enjoy trying to
think of ways to outwit and outmanuver their opponents.

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit

kingoftherill wrote:

Is it making the playing field more level to provide drop downs of all nation messages, all army movements, new pops, etc to a team who is too lazy to bother with pulling that information out of the raw data that is provided in each of the team's turn reports. Or is it rewarding that laziness by doing it for them. We organized teams who have people willing to dedicate some time to analysis should have an advantage.

While I've played on several excellent teams who had players dedicated enough to do this sort of thing, I'm not clear that having lots and lots of time to dedicate to ME busywork is the hallmark of a good team.

A good team knows what to do with the information it has. A bad team won't bother to use the information handed to it.

Having access to the same set of rules as your opponent. Having the rules processed in the same way for everyone is what defines a level playing field. Providing processed information for easy reading

In this case, however, there are mapping tools out there that are not available to everyone (ADJ's amazing mapper being one example). I don't understand why a team should have an advantage just because Andrew happens to be on their team (aside from Andrew's personal skill, of course).

without effort is not what defines a level playing field. Maybe a program should be developed that provides you with all that information then tells you what orders you should submit in 14 days would level the field even more. I doubt however that would be an acceptable situation for those players who actually enjoy trying to think of ways to outwit and outmanuver their opponents.

The whole point of computers in general is to take away repetative work from humans to allow humans to concentrate on the creativity that they are best at. ME's new software is along the same lines.

Let me ask you this: would you want MEOW (the turn software) to warn you if you tried to move a character to a water hex, an illegal hex, or more than 12 spaces? Do you consider that thinking for the player?

      jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

Is it making the playing field more level to provide drop downs of
all nation messages, all army movements, new pops, etc to a team who
is too lazy to bother with pulling that information out of the raw
data that is provided in each of the team's turn reports. Or is it
rewarding that laziness by doing it for them. We organized teams who
have people willing to dedicate some time to analysis should have an
advantage.

Surely those teams will still have an advantage, you can now concentrate on
more skillful tasks rather than the mundane of extracting nation messages.

I doubt however that would be an
acceptable situation for those players who actually enjoy trying to
think of ways to outwit and outmanuver their opponents.

All it does is present information that is available to the player via their
pdf's, it doesnt make them more skillful. It will still be the skillfull
players winning.

It isnt just lazy people who will benefit, to my mind the big benefit is to
people who just dont have the time to go through all the pdf's

Nobody should have to go through all the pdfs, that's only done when some are too lazy to report the necessary data, and some hero is prepared to do their work for them. But I agree with you that there are plenty of lazy people out there. And lazy folk make dull team mates and worse opponents. The mapping program should make oppositions more challenging, and I for one think that's a Good Thing.

Oo er. I'm feeling a tad aggressive today Nursie.
"Come an' 'ave a go
if ya think yer 'ard enough..."

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

···

At 08:37 24/06/2003, Mark Jeffries wrote:

It isnt just lazy people who will benefit, to my mind the big benefit is to
people who just dont have the time to go through all the pdf's

kingoftherill wrote:

> Is it making the playing field more level to provide drop downs

of

> all nation messages, all army movements, new pops, etc to a team

who

> is too lazy to bother with pulling that information out of the

raw

> data that is provided in each of the team's turn reports. Or is

it

> rewarding that laziness by doing it for them. We organized teams

who

> have people willing to dedicate some time to analysis should have

an

> advantage.

While I've played on several excellent teams who had players

dedicated

enough to do this sort of thing, I'm not clear that having lots and

lots

of time to dedicate to ME busywork is the hallmark of a good team.

A good team knows what to do with the information it has. A bad

team

won't bother to use the information handed to it.

> Having access to the same set of rules as your opponent. Having

the

> rules processed in the same way for everyone is what defines a

level

> playing field. Providing processed information for easy reading

In this case, however, there are mapping tools out there that are

not

available to everyone (ADJ's amazing mapper being one example). I

don't

understand why a team should have an advantage just because Andrew
happens to be on their team (aside from Andrew's personal skill, of

course).

> without effort is not what defines a level playing field. Maybe a
> program should be developed that provides you with all that
> information then tells you what orders you should submit in 14

days

> would level the field even more. I doubt however that would be an
> acceptable situation for those players who actually enjoy trying

to

> think of ways to outwit and outmanuver their opponents.

The whole point of computers in general is to take away repetative

work

from humans to allow humans to concentrate on the creativity that

they

are best at. ME's new software is along the same lines.

Let me ask you this: would you want MEOW (the turn software) to

warn you

if you tried to move a character to a water hex, an illegal hex, or

more

than 12 spaces? Do you consider that thinking for the player?

      jason

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
E pur si muove!

No Jason, I don't want MEOW at all. I want to think for myself, If I
do something stupid like miscount hexes, or give the wrong
coordinates I should pay the price for that not have MEOW warn me
automatically. On the better teams that I have been fortunate to play
on someone will have noticed those mistakes and pointed out that I
might want to check on them. If not shame on me and shame on my team
mates and move on.

In wars victory does not only go to those who are the best a large
part of victory is he who makes fewer critical errors. Human error
should be a part of this game. I don't want to see a program that
takes away the element of a bonehead mistake. Sometimes the challenge
of recovering from those faux pas makes for the most interesting
planning.

Brad

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, Jason Bennett <jasonab@a...> wrote:

No Jason, I don't want MEOW at all. I want to think for myself, If I
do something stupid like miscount hexes, or give the wrong
coordinates I should pay the price for that not have MEOW warn me
automatically. On the better teams that I have been fortunate to play
on someone will have noticed those mistakes and pointed out that I
might want to check on them. If not shame on me and shame on my team
mates and move on.

*** Why not have a program check something simple like this? Rather than ask a player to waste time checking (and most wouldn't either) what's wrong with that? I assume that when we contact you informing you that you have made a mistake (I assume that you do - my apologies if you do not) then you value that service? MEOW/AM do that. You don't have to use it...

In wars victory does not only go to those who are the best a large
part of victory is he who makes fewer critical errors. Human error
should be a part of this game.

*** Certainly will be... :slight_smile:

I don't want to see a program that
takes away the element of a bonehead mistake.

*** Like what? Serious question.

Clint