ME Announcement

From: Rodrigo Maia [mailto:g0th@bol.com.br]

So, as a compromise, what do u think about a "in a hidden
PC u would not find characters of that nation or another FRIENDLY

nation

with a recon or scout order" rule ?

I would vote against any rule which provided COMPLETE protection from
scouting. Some of the agent/stealthy types in MePBM should be good
enough to ferret out someone hiding in a hidden PC. I agree it should be
harder to find someone in a hidden PC, but not impossible.

Mike Mulka

···

-----Original Message-----

Yes that's part of the initial concept. as per usual I'll listen to what
you guys have to say and see what you like.

Hidden PCs: One thought is that it shows up enemy characters there as
normal pcs do. Thoughts?

Clint

RD: That's a step in the right direction certainly. But also, agents should
find it MORE difficult to penetrate a hidden centre than a non-hidden one,
and big challenge characters should find it VERY difficult.

I am strongly tempted to suggest that we do away with 'hidden' centres
altogether. All the 'hidden' centres are known (or at least can be quickly
and easily discovered) to players, and they were also all known to Sauron
and the Elf-lords. I would substitute magically 'warded' centres (Mordor
capitals would qualify as well as the current FP ones). The warding would
kill, injure, capture or just bounce all but the best (or luckiest) agents.
Any who did manage to get through might still be reported as an an unknown
intruder even if his name was not revealed.

Not only would that better reflect the level of protection surrounding
Imadris, Lorien or for that matter Barad Ungol, it pegs back the still
excessive power of agents somewhat.

To make sure the warded pops don't get it all their own way, I'd introduce a
'hard' shapechange spell, which would allow an evil character to adopt the
guise of a good one, or vice versa, and thus penetrate a warded pop unseen.
In the story of Beren and Luthien, both of them did exactly that, and Sauron
also changed shape more than once in different stories. This spell would
still allow a shapechanged assassin or challenger (or two) to penetrate a
warded centre unseen but it would put a stop to the nonsensical spectacle of
a nine-strong company of assassins wiping out the entire population.

Curses from neighbouring hexes could still kill characters in warded hexes.

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "ME Games Ltd" <me@MiddleEarthGames.com>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME Announcement

> > We have no plans as such. We're looking at a new module that should
> > be interesting but 1650 as it stands (and very likely 2950) I can't
> > see changing. But that's just my first impressions, we're in this
> > for the long-haul so there's no rush.
>
>My only request is that 1650/2950 as they currently stand always remain
>an option. You guys can go hog wild (and I hope you do) implementing
>LGT's 2nd edition rules, new scenarios, or whatever. Just leave the
>standards as they are.
>
>Looking forward to new, cool stuff!
>
> jason
>
>--
>Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
>E pur si muove!
>Get Firefox! - http://getfirefox.com
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   I disagree. I think that a character that enters a hidden PC doesnt

actually enter the PC, just the surrounding area. After all, it's HIDDEN. I
think that a character that enters a hidden PC should not be able to
interact with any characters in such PC unless they are in a army ( since
this shows regardless of the hidden status, implying that the army doesn't
necessarily stays in the PC for the 14 days ).

    What do u think ? If the PC is hidden, "loose" characters cannot be

target of orders from adversary nations, since such doesn't know where they
actually are. On the other hand, since the hostile character isn't in the
PC, he shouldn't appear in the turnsheet. I think this is both realist and
effective. I believe it to be a more just approach to this topic, while
maintaining a certain level of reality and logic to it....

RD: The point is, that if the hostile character went to a hex containing a
MT that was NOT hidden, he -would- show up. If he shows up at a non-hidden
MT, he should -certainly- show up at a 'hidden' one, which by definition has
strategic importance and should therefore be -better- guarded, not worse.
That's the point of 'hiding' it!

As for the mechanics of the thing, we may assume that even if a MT doesn't
have patrols out in the surrounding countryside, the local peasants are out
there working the land. If they saw Ji Indur, they would yell 'Eek!' and
run as fast as fright would carry them to tell the guard at the nearest
gate - hidden or not.

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodrigo Maia" <g0th@bol.com.br>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME Announcement

        Rodrigo Maia
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: John Choules
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME Announcement

  --- ME Games Ltd <me@MiddleEarthGames.com> wrote:
  >
  > Hidden PCs: One thought is that it shows up enemy
  > characters there as
  > normal pcs do. Thoughts?
  >
  > Clint

  Yes.

  JCC

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    I disagree. Even so, let's agree that characters in a Hidden PC of

their nations should be almost impossible to perceive through scouts. After
all, if a mage predicts its location, there's little importance if the PC
is hidden or not. So, as a compromise, what do u think about a "in a hidden
PC u would not find characters of that nation or another FRIENDLY nation
with a recon or scout order" rule ? This way, it doesn't impede magical
scrying, in fact it heightens its importance. Also it makes double agents
easier targets....

    Also, as a way to help diminish the discrepance between FPs and DSs,

how about extending the palantir efficiency ? That's something i've always
beefed about. Why can't a palantir locate a character ? The order could be
switched so that u could specify either an hex or an ID, and the palantir
woukd act accordingly. Unless someone names a character "3124 II" , that
shouldn't cause comotion =P ..

        Rodrigo Maia

RD: Sounds reasonable, except that all the palantiri start in the hands of
the FP, so if you enable the palantiri to locate a character, you
effectively give the FP another 7 RCTs! That's more than a little
unbalancing - unless you can find a way to compensate the DS, of course.

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodrigo Maia" <g0th@bol.com.br>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME Announcement

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Urzahil
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 5:19 PM
  Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] ME Announcement

  >From: Rodrigo Maia [mailto:g0th@bol.com.br]
  >
  > What do u think ? If the PC is hidden, "loose" characters cannot be
  >target of orders from adversary nations, since such doesn't know where
  they
  >actually are. On the other hand, since the hostile character isn't in
  the
  >PC, he shouldn't appear in the turnsheet. I think this is both realist

  and
  >effective. I believe it to be a more just approach to this topic, while
  >maintaining a certain level of reality and logic to it....

  Even "loose" characters go for a walk, have country homes, or need to
  pick up some reagents from the forest. I would say that someone in a
  hidden PC is immune to any enemy character actions if they specifically
  issue a "hide in the city" order.

  Mike Mulka

  Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
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>From: Rodrigo Maia [mailto:g0th@bol.com.br]
>
>So, as a compromise, what do u think about a "in a hidden
>PC u would not find characters of that nation or another FRIENDLY
nation
>with a recon or scout order" rule ?

I would vote against any rule which provided COMPLETE protection from
scouting. Some of the agent/stealthy types in MePBM should be good
enough to ferret out someone hiding in a hidden PC. I agree it should be
harder to find someone in a hidden PC, but not impossible.

Mike Mulka

RD: I suggest that a character in a 'hidden' or 'warded' pop should be
immune from scouting. How on earth could an enemy scout find out whether
Balin was in Khazad-dum, or Thranduil in Lorien, or come to that Ren the
Unclean in Barad Ungol? It should work the same for both sides; however, if
you got a message saying Balin (or Thranuil, or Ren) could not be found, you
would KNOW they were in a hidden pop and Dwa at least have only got one!
Secondly you could still find these characters by RC(T) or LA(T). So the
loss of intelligence is not really too much.

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Urzahil" <urzahil@darkfortress.us>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] ME Announcement

>-----Original Message-----

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From: "ME Games Ltd" <me@M...>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME Announcement

>
> Yes that's part of the initial concept. as per usual I'll

listen to what you guys have to say and see what you like.

>
> Hidden PCs: One thought is that it shows up enemy characters

there as normal pcs do. Thoughts?

>
> Clint

RD: That's a step in the right direction certainly. But also,

agents should find it MORE difficult to penetrate a hidden centre
than a non-hidden one, and big challenge characters should find it
VERY difficult.

I am strongly tempted to suggest that we do away with 'hidden'

centres altogether. All the 'hidden' centres are known (or at least
can be quickly and easily discovered) to players, and they were also
all known to Sauron and the Elf-lords. I would substitute
magically 'warded' centres (Mordor capitals would qualify as well as
the current FP ones). The warding would kill, injure, capture or
just bounce all but the best (or luckiest) agents. Any who did
manage to get through might still be reported as an an unknown

intruder even if his name was not revealed.

Not only would that better reflect the level of protection

surrounding Imadris, Lorien or for that matter Barad Ungol, it pegs
back the still excessive power of agents somewhat.

To make sure the warded pops don't get it all their own way, I'd

introduce a 'hard' shapechange spell, which would allow an evil
character to adopt the guise of a good one, or vice versa, and thus
penetrate a warded pop unseen.

In the story of Beren and Luthien, both of them did exactly that,

and Sauron also changed shape more than once in different stories.
This spell would still allow a shapechanged assassin or challenger
(or two) to penetrate a warded centre unseen but it would put a stop
to the nonsensical spectacle of a nine-strong company of assassins
wiping out the entire population.

Curses from neighbouring hexes could still kill characters in

warded hexes.

Richard.

*** I was thinking along very simular lines here.
A hidden/warded pc should give all characters of that nation and
those that they are friendly with a +30 roll to stop agents actions
against them. This is to reflect the fact that Ji or anyone else
would find it harder to walk around such pc's.
This could be offset by the "Disguise" order in which an agent could
use to penetrate hidden/warded pc's. This would have the effect of
a -20 on the roll, thus still giving the character Ji was about to
assassinate a little more protection.
This would mean of course that Ji or anyone else couldn't Refuse
Challenge while carrying out an assassination or kidnapping attempt
in a hidden/warded pc.

Ian

> > > We have no plans as such. We're looking at a new module

that should

> > > be interesting but 1650 as it stands (and very likely 2950)

I can't

> > > see changing. But that's just my first impressions, we're

in this

> > > for the long-haul so there's no rush.
> >
> >My only request is that 1650/2950 as they currently stand

always remain

> >an option. You guys can go hog wild (and I hope you do)

implementing

> >LGT's 2nd edition rules, new scenarios, or whatever. Just leave

the

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "richard devereux" <rd@p...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
> >standards as they are.
> >
> >Looking forward to new, cool stuff!
> >
> > jason
> >
> >--
> >Jason Bennett, jasonab@a...
> >E pur si muove!
> >Get Firefox! - http://getfirefox.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> >To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> >Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---
> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 22/10/04
>
> ****************************************************************
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> me@m...
> www.middleearthgames.com
>
> UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
> Tel 029 2062 5665 12-6.30 Weekdays
> Fax 029 2062 5532 24 hours
>
> US: PO Box 680155, Marietta, GA 30068-0003
> Tel 770 579 6813 EST Weekdays
> Fax 503 296 2325
> ****************************************************************
> Middle Earth - Legends
> Serim Ral - Exile
>
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From: richard devereux [mailto:rd@pagan-47.fsnet.co.uk]

RD: I suggest that a character in a 'hidden' or 'warded' pop should be
immune from scouting. How on earth could an enemy scout find out

whether

Balin was in Khazad-dum, or Thranduil in Lorien, or come to that Ren

the

Unclean in Barad Ungol?

The way most spy-types find stuff out. By bribing some local (be it a
thug, merchant, or low-level army officer). These locals certainly have
business which takes out on the road from time to time. The agent is
just searching the area, and bribing (or torturing) locals for the info
they need. "Yes! Yes! I saw Balin in Khazad-dum yesterday! Just please
make it stop!"

Note that I still agree that it should be more difficult to find a
character in a hidden PC. Just not impossible.

Mike Mulka