ME One nation choices

mepbmlist
#41

Forgive the apparent dead-horse: we've had 150
messages on sign ups and nation choices, but 140 of
them have been on the merits (or lack thereof) of
charging more to play the Cloud Lord.

There are other methods, so I'm reposting this.
Suggestions? It seems insanely simple and fair --
what's missing?

Dan N.

1) Players list nations they want to play. Could be
one, could be five - as many as they want.

2) ME Games assigns them starting with the #1 choices.
Anyone asking for a nation that no one listed gets it.
   When two or more players choose the same nation,
preference goes to players who haven't played it
before.
   When there are still several vying for that nation,
it is randomly assigned to one.

That's it. Minimal bookkeeping, no extra fees.

That means:
- if you list the White Wizard as your only choice,
you may not get to play in the next game. Or the one
after. Or after that. Your choice.
- if you list Rhun, you'll get to play in the next
game.
- if you list five nations, you'll play in the next
game -- but you're more likely to get the Eothraim if
you list them first than if you if list them after the
Noldo.

Flexible players get to play. Adventurous players get
to try new nations. Intractable players get to wait
until luck goes their way.

···

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#42

Wow Brad, that's managed to twist the issue just as far as it is possible
  to twist it! Have you never heard of consumer choice?

  There seems to be an issue here of people sheepishly giving 3 choices, then
  grumbling that they get their third choice, and then resenting those who
  actually sought to exercise consumer choice.

  Typically in my experience, a request is not worded "If I don't get XXXX
  then I'm not playing!" but "If a XXXX position is available, then I'd like
  another game please. I don't mind waiting." There is an enormous
  difference in both spirit and intent. Your skew on the situation suggests
  a desire to push other players out of the way, when in fact such a request
  should be no problem, provided it is accompanied by a willingness to wait
  at the back of the queue.

  You will have to accept I'm afraid, that whilst you might not be too fussed
  about what nation you play, there are others, who only want to play (and
  pay money) if they can play a specific nation.

  If you want a pint of Marston's Old Peculiar, don't ask the landlord for a
  pint of anything. If you're just desperate for a drink, take what he gives
  you, but don't moan about it when you end up with a can of Fosters.

  mefacesmo.gif
       Laurence G.Tilley
  RD: AAaargh!!! Heresy! It's Theakston's Old Peculiar, and Marston's Pedigree. Both are good real ales but Foster's isn't even a good lager.

  Crikey sport, nearly time to go to the fridge and grab a tinny!

  Richard.

  http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Laurence G. Tilley
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 1:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME One nation choices

  At 15:52 26/11/2003, Brad Brunet wrote:
  >If the question were: Should we give in to the players who say "If I don't
  >get XXXX then I'm not playing!"
  >
  >Then my answer would be: No.

#43

Either will do, and we've lots of other synonyms too. You are a special
  case though Brad, so you cannot be applied to the discussion. We have
  become used to you being Rhudar in all games. Things just would not be the
  same if you weren't there :wink:

  mefacesmo.gif
       Laurence G.Tilley
  RD: Yeah, you'd still be wauiting for the game to start!

  Richard.

  http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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----- Original Message -----
  From: Laurence G. Tilley
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 1:33 AM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] Brad of Rhudaur

  At 20:06 26/11/2003, Brad Brunet wrote:
  >Every game I've signed up for and said "Any Neutral" I've recieved Rhudaur.
  >That's a statement of fact, not a condemnation. 'Any Neutral' is,
  >essentially, a "list" of 5 nations in no particular order. Extremely
  >flexible, no? Advise Laurence, however tongue-in-cheek that I'm not
  >"whining" (or is that "whinging" in the UK..I keep forgetting... :wink: )

#44

Nope - not interested in doing that - too easy.. :slight_smile: Seriously I am trying
  to find a better method of getting the most of the game and in particular
  setting up the game fairly.

  Clint

  RD: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.'
  Richard.

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----- Original Message -----
  From: Middle Earth PBM Games
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 2:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME One nation choices

  >At 17:47 26/11/2003, Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:
  > >Nope I chat to the players concerned a lot - sometimes I say no and the 1
  > >nation guys get bumped to the next game. Mostly we can come to a happy
  > >middle ground whereby players get a nation they want to play.
  >
  >No problem then. Not sure that you should even be asking us, unless you
  >just wanted to wind us all up a bit!

#45

Actually it's "Trolls Bottom" - very bad game (but it got me into PBM!) I
  am pretty happy with the way we treat our players. Those who don't like it
  - well there's little we can do in most cases other than bow to their
  pressure which I think would be bad for the game. So working out when
  input is valid is what I am looking for - I quite like Dan's suggestion..

  "1) Players list nations they want to play. Could be one, could be five -
  as many as they want.
  That's all from the Players' side.

  Then ME Games assigns them by: starting with the #1 choices. Any one asking
  for a
  nation that no one else has put first gets it. When two or more players
  list the same nation as
  anyone else, preference goes to players who haven't done that nation before.
  When there's still several vying for that nation, it is randomly assigned
  to one."

  There's a few problems I can see with it but I was hoping to get some
  player feedback before I commented.

  Clint

  RD: Sounds fair enough to me, and INFINITELY preferable to having a price differential.
  Richard.

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Middle Earth PBM Games
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 3:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME One nation choices

  >Sometimes it can be a case of _how many_ players you cause to go
  >off and play "Trolls in their Holes" :wink:

#46

One person mentioned that he's "Never" gotten his first choice at the same
time noticed that others seem to be able to get those nations
repeatedly....how does a "fair and equitable" system explain that?

Because it is fair... :slight_smile: Over time it will be roughly even.

If anyone is

perceived as being sheepish here, it can only potentially be MEGames for
bowing before the assertiveness/arrogance of the queue jumpers.

Why are you having a go at us? I didn't say anything.. :slight_smile: I am trying to get the best system and looking for feedback here Brad. I'm not letting queue jumpers in or anything like that.

Instead of heaping abuse on a different perspective, why not try to

understand it?

I agree - touche.

Personally, I'm not whining that the world is so unfair in regards to my own
personal Rhudaur situation. It's simply curious. It just is - especially
as Clint says Rhudaur is actually more popular than I've always expected,
then it's a bizarre coincidence that I keep getting it.

I'd have to go through each situation in turn to explain why you end up with it. Note I also try to balance the game so that the teams on each side are around the same strength so that makes it more complex.

Here's another
case: in my current Rhudaur game, another neutral told me he actually had
Rhudaur selected, in his list, Ahead of the nation he ended up with! I
asked for "any neutral" and got the nation he wanted, he got a choice
further down the list. An administrative error that's to be expected in
such an intensive hand-moderated system or should my persecution complex be
bumped up to Code Yellow?

No idea - I'd need more facts. I keep a list of the games. If it's game 139 then the players expressed other preferences so I selected their first choice in each case. As your choice was evenly distributed then I gave you the Rhudaur. No administrative error.

Clint

#47

Hmmm... Technically, the horse and buggy wasn't 'broke'. Luckily someone
thought of a better way. :wink:

Mike Mulka

···

-----Original Message-----
From: richard devereux [mailto:rd@pagan-47.fsnet.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 11:38 AM
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME One nation choices

RD: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.'
Richard.

#48

Oh dear, yes, you are right. You can tell it's been much too long since
I've been down the pub! I won't go quite so far as to drink Fosters for my
penance though!

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 17:25 27/11/2003, richard devereux wrote:

  If you want a pint of Marston's Old Peculiar, don't ask the landlord for a
  pint of anything. If you're just desperate for a drink, take what he
gives
  you, but don't moan about it when you end up with a can of Fosters.

  RD: AAaargh!!! Heresy! It's Theakston's Old Peculiar, and Marston's
Pedigree. Both are good real ales but Foster's isn't even a good lager.

  Crikey sport, nearly time to go to the fridge and grab a tinny!

#49

Hmmm... Technically, the horse and buggy wasn't 'broke'. Luckily someone
  thought of a better way. :wink:

  Mike Mulka
  RD: Different, yes. Faster, yes. But 'better' is debatable (not the place to debate it here, though). And the horse and buggy still works! :slight_smile:

  Richard.

  >From: richard devereux [mailto:rd@pagan-47.fsnet.co.uk]
  >Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 11:38 AM
  >To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  >Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME One nation choices
  >
  > RD: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.'
  > Richard.

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Urzahil
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:54 PM
  Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] ME One nation choices

  >-----Original Message-----