ME One nation choices

mepbmlist
#61

Reread the *whole* of my reply, Dan. You'll see I gave another example, one
which explicitly contradicts your assertion about cinema pricing. ME is not
going that route, but I was simply showing that it works at both ends of the
spectrum.

Note also that there is a cinema in California (LA, I think) that charges a
premium over other cinemas, but guarantees a better viewing experience in
return. Guess what, they're also making money. So much so that they plan on
expanding into other cities.

Gavin
PS I don't know who came up with the title of this topic, but it's a doozie!

D N wrote:

···

Gavin wrote:

Tell that to Stelios. He's made a very successful

business out of individual
pricing. It's called easyJet.

in response to my statement:

Why shouldn't people pay more to see a movie

on opening night?
Because they hate it. They'll accept only minor
changes in pricing -- matinee shows, or Monday night
discounts -- but not individualized pricing for movies
or many things.

Gavin, did you interpret my message as saying
"individualized pricing never works for anything,
ever?"

It doesn't say that.

It does say that tailored pricing doesn't work in some
arenas, and I gave examples of two where it had been
tried -- and rejected because of customer
dissatifaction.

I personally believe that would happen here if ME
Games charged more for the Cloud Lord. If you don't,
fine. Sometimes individual pricing works well.

And sometimes it doesn't.

Dan
No Individual Nation Fees, Please

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#62

I'll send you a copy. Note that it's just in the process of a revamp though.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 00:21 04/12/2003, Torvanus wrote:

Could someone point me to the rules for this variant.

#63

Thanks I am into Gunboat heavily and looking for more variants to
try.

Steven

>Could someone point me to the rules for this variant.

I'll send you a copy. Note that it's just in the process of a

revamp though.

···

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#64

Hollywood tried tailored pricing for movies, in three
states for two years. It makes sense for pricing: if
LotR sells out for weeks, why shouldn't people pay
more to see it than to see anything starring Adam
Sandler? Why shouldn't people pay more to see a movie
on opening night?

Because they hate it. They'll accept only minor
changes in pricing -- matinee shows, or Monday night
discounts -- but not individualized pricing for movies
or many things. Most mobile phone plans include a
"free" 60 or 600 minutes, which I hate (since I use
mine perhaps ten minutes a month), but people like the
convenience, despite the intrinsic inefficiency.

My dad, a computer programmer back in the day, wrote a
script for a Poultry Association to maximize the mix
of feed for chickens. The nutritional needs of
chickens can be met through various combinations of
grains, but since wheat, barley, and corn vary in
price from week to week, farmers wanted a way to
determine the current cheapest mix.

The program worked perfectly -- it automatically found
the optimal combination for any period -- but the
first week they used it, the chickens wouldn't eat the
feed.

Rant and rave all you want about how it isn't right or
fair, but people just don't like tailored pricing for
all their consumables any more than chickens do.

And if players object to tailored pricing for ME
nations -- I do, as do a whole lot of players here --
then it's worth considering other options.

Just have players list the nations they want, then
allocate them by starting with the #1 choices, and
giving preference to new players. Then choose randomly
from the remainder.

If you want to wait to play the Cloud Lord, you can
(and probably will). If you want to play immediately
no matter what, list five choices and you're in. If
you want the Eothraim, list them ahead of the Noldo.

Dan N.

RD: Quite right Dan. I get really pissed off with BT's rubbish 'choices' of different plans depending on how often you phone Outer Mongolia or whether you use the phone more often at weekends than weekdays.

I use the phone for essentials only and consequently anything I spend on who or when or where I phone is dwarfed by the blasted rental.

I want a nil-rental, pay-as-you-go phone. It ain't ever gonna happen because for all the bullshit about 'we're cheaper than BT' it only applies to the calls not the rental.

The first company to set up in the UK and charge people zero rental (which I understand is the the case in at least parts of the USA) but only for their calls will get my custom!

Richard.

···

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#65

Here are a few not so random thoughts concerning various nation choice scenarios, which have applied to me or friends of mine recently.

  What happens if a group of four or five people want to enter a game together and specify a particular group of nations they would like to play? Are they being unsociable because they are trying to corner the market in a set of nations or sociable because they have each given four or five choices of nations?

  Suppose that a couple of people join together and say that they want Arthedain/Cardolan, NG/SG or Eothraim/Northmen (for example). It seems perfectly reasonable that they might want to work together in a way that Arthedain/Northmen are never going to do. They've even selected three nations each but the overall choice is still constrained.

  What you want to do with newcomers? A random allocation of nations would possibly be very unfair on them and the rest of their team. On the other hand, they may not know enough to pick good nations for themselves so should other players be able to bump them from good positions by only selecting one nation?

  So far as I can see the best way to accomodate these is to leave it up to the Gods (i.e ME Games ). There may be games in which a number of players specify a single position. Then the answer is to tell some of them that they can't have what they want and give them the choice of waiting (with no guarantee that they will get the position in the next game either) or of being flexible.

  From a personal point of view, I have now played every DS position except Dk Lts. I personally find the Cloud Lord quite limiting. It's satisfying to rack up the kills but that's about it. On the other hand I enjoy the QA and even the Fire King can be fun after the first 15 or so turns. I guess this means that I'm in line for some good discounts if we get differential pricing.

  Richard
  RD: Suggestion: why don't you go on the list and say, I have nearly half a FP team, here are the nations still available, who wants?

  Or, the quickest way to fill gaps: each player plays two nations. Everybody gets one nation they want, they also have to play one they didn't particularly want. There are LOADS of advantages to playing two nations. Try it and see!

  Richard (a different Richard from the one who sent the original message. Good job there aren't three Richards, otherwise one would have to be Richard the Third ((only funny if you know cockney rhyming slang))).

  Richard de First (or possibly de Second, but definitely not..)

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Richard Farrer
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 7:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: ME One nation choices

#66

I think that it can work in some situations but not others. Business
  models are not always suited to be spread liberally across any business in
  my experience. Not saying that I don't think it couldn't work - it might
  well do but at present we're not following this potential avenue.

  Clint

  RD: GOOD decision Clint, both on business and PR grounds!
  Richard.

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: ME Games Ltd
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] The Cloud Lord, LotR vs. Adam Sandler, and Chickens

  >As long as people know the rules in advance, individual pricing actually
  >works well.

#67

Could someone point me to the rules for this variant. I have looked
  for them with no luck so far. I guess those those 12 nation pairs
  choices of 10 and 14 that I have submitted through 2007 have
  curtailed my ability to find things recently.

  Thanks,
         Steven McAbee (CL 05-06), (Noldo 06-07)

  RD: You should be able to find this on the ME website (address on your turn). Or, ask Clint. Sorry I can't give you this directly - my pc crashed a while ago so all I have is paper copies.
  Richard.

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Torvanus
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 12:21 AM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] WotR variant

#68

Actually, I don't know that there is a list of scenario/variant rules. I
  was going to put up a web page that listed them all for easy
  reference... except I don't know them all.

  Anyone out there got a decent list of all the 1650/2950/1000/BOFA game
  variants? If so send it along to me and I'll get something posted.

  Mike Mulka

  Doesn't Harle have all this stuff on their website? If not why not? I would love to push WotR but my pc crashed a while back and I only have paper copies of the amendments.
  Richard.

  >From: Torvanus [mailto:torvanus@yahoo.com]
  >Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 6:22 PM
  >To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  >Subject: [mepbmlist] WotR variant
  >
  >
  > Could someone point me to the rules for this variant. I have looked
  >for them with no luck so far. I guess those those 12 nation pairs
  >choices of 10 and 14 that I have submitted through 2007 have
  >curtailed my ability to find things recently.
  >
  >Thanks,
  > Steven McAbee (CL 05-06), (Noldo 06-07)

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Urzahil
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 1:41 AM
  Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] WotR variant

  >-----Original Message-----

#69

Gavin, I did read your response. I didn't assert
anything about cinema pricing other than that
Hollywood tried higher prices for popular movies and
it failed miserably.

It's a point worth noting. Why doesn't the theatre
charge more when you go to see the next LotR film than
when you went to see "A Day with the Meatball?"

Both could make more money with tailored pricing, and
in theory, people would be happier paying for easier
access to LotR with cheaper access to Meatball.

But in theory, the chickens should eat the cheap feed,
too. In practice, the chickens didn't like it, and
neither did customers at the theatres with tailored
movie prices.

Some ME Games customers don't like it either, and
Clint shouldn't assume they will just because it works
at EasyJet.

Dan

Reread the *whole* of my reply, Dan. You'll see I

gave another example, one
which explicitly contradicts your assertion about
cinema pricing.

Gavin, did you interpret my message as saying
"individualized pricing never works for anything,
ever?"
It doesn't say that.

It does say that tailored pricing doesn't work in

some

···

arenas, and I gave examples of two where it had been
tried -- and rejected because of customer
dissatifaction.

I personally believe that would happen here if ME
Games charged more for the Cloud Lord. If you don't,
fine. Sometimes individual pricing works well.

And sometimes it doesn't.

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#70

What? Revamp? Who? Why?

--- "Laurence G. Tilley"

···

<laurence@lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

At 00:21 04/12/2003, Torvanus wrote:
>Could someone point me to the rules for this
variant.

I'll send you a copy. Note that it's just in the
process of a revamp though.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]

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#71

Revamp is too strong. A little refinement following the first 4 or so
games of testing. Richard Devereux is the man in question. Mostly the
tweaking involves more fixes for RhE which was still perceived as being too
weak in WotR, and in adjusting the starting food for armies, which was an
oversight, in the first version - starting armies were enlarged, but we
forgot to give them more food.

Also I think, Richard is considering tailoring it so that pre-aligned
neutrals will be default arrangement for WotR games.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 05:17 05/12/2003, Darrell Shimel wrote:

What? Revamp? Who? Why?

#72

A reduction in free population centers (and, in some cases,
fortifications) is also clearly warranted from a game-play point of
view. It's an excellent scenario overall, but the dark servants are
at a significant disadvantage, probably roughly the equivalent of the
free disadvantage in 1650. I've put in my suggestions to that effect
- mainly to make some "normal" 2950 DS gambits (attacks on Rohan,
Sinda) possible in a way that they are not with WOTR as currently set
up. The NM also have to be weakened a bit (!) to allow the Rhun a
chance to compete on a level field.

In particular, south gondor has far too much economic strength, and
giving Rohan a MT/keep backup in Hornburg is overkill (unlike the
dragon lord, they aren't exactly surrounded by enemies with
overwhelming force). The changes to the NM, Silvans, Woodmen, and
North Gondor are very good and make all of them reasonable nations to
run. Similar comments apply to the bulk of the DS, although I do
think that 3822 should be a Long Rider backup rather than a second
dragon lord backup.

It's an enjoyable scenario overall (my current favorite, and I've now
been in 3 WOTR games), but I really would strongly recommend a
critical look at the free vs. DS population center balance before
starting another WOTR game.

cheers,

Marc

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence G. Tilley" <laurence@l...>
wrote:

>What? Revamp? Who? Why?

Revamp is too strong. A little refinement following the first 4 or so
games of testing. Richard Devereux is the man in question. Mostly the
tweaking involves more fixes for RhE which was still perceived as

being too

weak in WotR, and in adjusting the starting food for armies, which

was an

···

At 05:17 05/12/2003, Darrell Shimel wrote:
oversight, in the first version - starting armies were enlarged, but we
forgot to give them more food.

Also I think, Richard is considering tailoring it so that pre-aligned
neutrals will be default arrangement for WotR games.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#73

Marc who have you played against? Can you recall the team (or team-captains)?

Clint

It's an enjoyable scenario overall (my current favorite, and I've now

···

been in 3 WOTR games).

#74

Marc who have you played against? Can you recall the team (or

team-captains)?

Clint

It's an enjoyable scenario overall (my current favorite, and I've now
>been in 3 WOTR games).

I've been in three games overall.
One (with Richard as captain) as the free, where I ran a free Khand
and picked up Northern Gondor after another drop. I forget who the
opposition team was - RD would know (228). Free win.

A second (with Mark Jaede as Caeser) as the free, where I ran the
Northmen against the Brits captained by Richard (239). Another free win.

The third is ongoing - as the dark servants (234) against Jason V. We
may break the streak, but it's tough :slight_smile:

I do have a detailed list of pop center changes as suggestions if
you're interested. With some relatively minor mods, this is a fine
alternative to classic 2950 - much faster pace.

cheers,

Marc

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, ME Games Ltd <me@M...> wrote:

#75

Thanks

Clint

···

I've been in three games overall.

#76

My 2 golds worth.

In my opinion I think that Clint should keep a list of every player
and what nations they have played. Then when people submit setups
for new games Clint can check this list and give precidence to
someone who has never played a nation vs. someone who has played
that nation several times. I.E. the person with the fewest times
playing a nation gets first shot at said nation depending on their
choices, then the next fewest person and so on. The one thing I
truly hate about this game is I can play 10 games as the Free or 10
games as the Dark and I guarantee you I wont get to play all 10
nations or for that matter I would be lucky to play 7 nations out of
the 10. Same can be said if I played the Neutrals 5 times, most
likely in 1650 I would get the Duns and Rhudaur at least 3 of the 5
times and in 2950 Duns and Rhun at least 3 of the 5 times.

The only exception I would have for someone playing the "powerhouse"
nations would be that a new player should play one of the average
positions to learn the game before playing the bigger/more serious
nations.

There is alot to be said by everyone on what is fair and what isnt.

The one thing I can say is if you want to play the same nation over
and over and over, do it in the Fourth Age where noone cares if you
play the same characters and skills with the exception you might not
get your great starting location every time.

For me I play all 3 scenario's and personally I would like to play
each of the nations, whether they be the crappy ones or the good
ones. I have never gotten my first choice.

I can say about 5 years ago when I got Rhudaur for the 3rd time out
of 4 times playing a neutral, Duns was the other one, I purchased
myself into bankruptcy, retired the characters and dropped the
position in spite.

Each and every one of us who plays deserves the opportunity to play
each nation. We shouldnt be required to settle for our most often
3rd choice just because some people only want to play the best
nations and dont give any other choices.

#77

What? Revamp? Who? Why?
  RD: We've played half-a-dozen games of WotR (not bad for a variant!). It has worked pretty well but there are some glaring errors:

  1) Rhun is too weak and too slanted towards FP
  2) New DS armies didn't get food
  3) WiK should've had an extra camp in the Misties giving him a chain of staging post between his capital in Mordor and the bulk of his pops in Angmar.

  I've had other suggestions too, some of them constuctive :slight_smile:

  Richard.

  --- "Laurence G. Tilley"

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Darrell Shimel
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] WotR variant

  <laurence@lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
  > At 00:21 04/12/2003, Torvanus wrote:
  > >Could someone point me to the rules for this
  > variant.
  >
  > I'll send you a copy. Note that it's just in the
  > process of a revamp though.
  >
  >
  > mefacesmo.gif
  > Laurence G.Tilley
  >
  > http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
  > removed]
  >
  >

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#78

Revamp is too strong. A little refinement following the first 4 or so
  games of testing. Richard Devereux is the man in question. Mostly the
  tweaking involves more fixes for RhE which was still perceived as being too
  weak in WotR, and in adjusting the starting food for armies, which was an
  oversight, in the first version - starting armies were enlarged, but we
  forgot to give them more food.

  Also I think, Richard is considering tailoring it so that pre-aligned
  neutrals will be default arrangement for WotR games.

  mefacesmo.gif
       Laurence G.Tilley

  RD: Pre-aligned neuts is my preference, but I can't make it compulsory!
  Also, I have discovered another design fault (WK should have a continuous chain of waystations between Minas Morgul and Angmar but only has one).

  I have received some more feedback now but with the utmost respect to players concerned, I do not intend to ask Harle to make changes unless there is a very obvious case for doing so, since it involves more work for Harle and consequently more cost to the players.

  Richard.

  http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Laurence G. Tilley
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] WotR variant

  At 05:17 05/12/2003, Darrell Shimel wrote:
  >What? Revamp? Who? Why?

#79

My 2 golds worth.

  In my opinion I think that Clint should keep a list of every player
  and what nations they have played. Then when people submit setups
  for new games Clint can check this list and give precidence to
  someone who has never played a nation vs. someone who has played
  that nation several times. I.E. the person with the fewest times
  playing a nation gets first shot at said nation depending on their
  choices, then the next fewest person and so on. The one thing I
  truly hate about this game is I can play 10 games as the Free or 10
  games as the Dark and I guarantee you I wont get to play all 10
  nations or for that matter I would be lucky to play 7 nations out of
  the 10. Same can be said if I played the Neutrals 5 times, most
  likely in 1650 I would get the Duns and Rhudaur at least 3 of the 5
  times and in 2950 Duns and Rhun at least 3 of the 5 times.

  The only exception I would have for someone playing the "powerhouse"
  nations would be that a new player should play one of the average
  positions to learn the game before playing the bigger/more serious
  nations.

  There is alot to be said by everyone on what is fair and what isnt.

  The one thing I can say is if you want to play the same nation over
  and over and over, do it in the Fourth Age where noone cares if you
  play the same characters and skills with the exception you might not
  get your great starting location every time.

  For me I play all 3 scenario's and personally I would like to play
  each of the nations, whether they be the crappy ones or the good
  ones. I have never gotten my first choice.

  I can say about 5 years ago when I got Rhudaur for the 3rd time out
  of 4 times playing a neutral, Duns was the other one, I purchased
  myself into bankruptcy, retired the characters and dropped the
  position in spite.

  Each and every one of us who plays deserves the opportunity to play
  each nation. We shouldnt be required to settle for our most often
  3rd choice just because some people only want to play the best
  nations and dont give any other choices.
  RD: Quite right. Your best bet is to form a team. If you've played a few games, then when game finishes, contact you former team-mates (or those you still want to talk to!) and say, how about another game? If another player can't fill in the gaps, Clint will pressgang somebody for you.

  Forming a team is MUCH better than joining as individuals - especially if you have one or two players prepared to play two nations. I have found that you can usually give players their first or second choice. If you do that, you will usually find that the Noldo player is happy to take Eothraim or Woodies as a second nation. That way, you go to Clint with a complete team, confident that even if you haven't got your first choice nation, you know the guy (or you know the guy who knows the guy) who is playing it is at least in the same league as you.

  Richard.

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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: tuormo
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 1:31 PM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: ME One nation choices