ME suggested nations for new players with some commentry

mepbmlist
#1

As requested here it is again. This is what I have created so far with some
analysis of each nation. I've not done a strategic guide (there's a 1 page
document with 2 lines per nation that we give out with set-ups for loose
advice). I don't know 2950 very well so cannot really give advice there - I
would appreciate players who have played it a lot to provide me with some
examples of the advice that I have created for 1650.

Thanks - comments welcome.

Advice for selecting Nations for new players

When joining a game:

? Choose either 2950 or 1650. 2950 has a slower build up to 1650 which is
very aggressive and active from the game start. Players perfering a slower
start should pick 2950 to 1650 games. 2950 games are more character based,
but lower economic base to 1650.

? After choosing a scenario (1650 or 2950). Send me a list of the nations
from the following list that you are happy to play (the more nations you
choose the easier it is to create a balanced game). We strongly advise
players choose these nations over any of the others available as they are
particularly good for new players to the game.

In order or preference of ease and suitablility of play for new players.
Choose Free People in preference to Dark Servants unless you have a strong
preference for Dark Servants. They are easeier to play and more independent
as a general rule. Dark Servants in Mordor need a lot of diplomacy and
organisation to offset the Free Peoples military advantage at game start.

In addition the Dark Servant economic deficit (around 1/3 the income and
recruiting base of the Free) is a major hurdle to overcome and often leads
to bankruptcy or under-recruit and you get swarmed to by the FP hordes of
armies. DS have a strong agent and character advantage and are mostly
defende by the Mountains of Mordor.

Neutrals: All Neutrals will need to join a side at some time. Their major
advantages are that they are not under threat by other aligned nations at
game start as they are Neutral. Neutral nations can sometimes attack other
Neutrals - be warned! All have a strong economic base and all will need to
chat to their aligned adjacent nations if they want to not be attacked by
them. From a learning the game perspective it is often better to join a
team and learn from your more experienced team-mates. As a Neutral you will
have minor ot no assistance in learning the new game.

1650
Free People: Dwarves (8), Cardolan (5), Arthedain (4), Sindar (9), South
Gondor (7)
Dark Servant: Long Rider (19), Blind Sorcerer (15), Fire King (18), Dark
Lieutenants (20), Dog Lord (13)
Neutral: Dunlendings (23), Easterlings (25), Corsairs (21), Harad (22)

Not Cardolan and Arthedain, nor Fire King and Dog Lord both as new players
in the same game. Both Corsair and Harad as new players or neither.

Quick synopsis of each nation follows
Free People::
Dwarves: Advantages: strongly military, difficult to knock out, strong
economic base. A couple of strong characters. Disadvantages: spread over
map. Special rules - dwarves have some agent orders available to them.
Cardolan: Advantages: Strong military, difficult to knock out, decent
economic base. Safely in the Northwest this nation is an excellent
introduction to military recruitment and movement of large armies.
Disadvantages: Weak characters. Special rules: Hire army at no cost (770).
Arthedain: Advantages: Strong military, decent economic base. Safely in the
Northwest this nation is an excellent introduction to military recruitment,
although weaker than Cardolan and movement of large armies. Disadvantages:
Capital can be under threat by your nearest enemy the Witch King. Special
rules: Mages
Sindar: Advantages: Strong Characters, good economic base, lots of Magic and
agents. Disadvantages: Spread out population centres and armies. Mages
are important for the team, so a reasonable level of diplomacy with the team
can be daunting for new players. Special Rules: Hidden Population centres,
spells.
South Gondor: Advantages: Excellent economy, strong characters, excellent
armies. Disadvantages: Team relies on your economic support. The team also
needs your military support which can be daunting to organise. Special
Rules: Navies

Dark Servant:
Long Rider: Advantages: Strong Characters, decent economic base, good
starting armies, safe capital and good agents. Independent to the battle for
Mordor so low levels of communication needed. Disadvantages: Lots to learn.
Special Rules: Agents, navies.
Blind Sorcerer: Advantages: Best Mages in the game. Very tasty start army.
Disadvantages: Minor military impact, very much a support nation. Economy
can be dangerous if you keep your army for too long. Special Rules: Magic -
lots of it.
Fire King: Advantages: Strong military, decent economic base. Low
complexity. Nice mix of characters. This nation is an excellent
introduction to military recruitment and movement of large armies.
Disadvantages: Weak characters. On the forefront of the Gonorian military
might you are potentially under threat from them. High level of talking
with team-mates and organisation needed. Special rules: Hire army at no
cost (770).
Dark Lieutenants: Advantages: One of the strongest Dark Servant nations it
has very good characters, good agents. Safe population centres in Mordor.
Strong economic base. Disadvantages: High complexity. Weak militarily,
supporting role for the team is a necessity including some sacrifice of
initital resources probably needed. Defence of Dog Lord, Ice King or Fire
King essential.
Dog Lord: Advantages: Strong military, decent economic base. Medium-high
complexity. Good characters with a nice mix of skills. This nation is an
excellent introduction to military recruitment and movement of large
cavalry. Disadvantages: Morannon (capital) protects the route into Mordor -
the heart land of the Dark Servants. You will come under attack by the
Eothraim, Sindar, Northmen, Dwarves and/or North Gondor at some point in the
game! Reasonable level of diplomacy with team-mates and organisation needed.
Special rules: Summon Mounts.

Dunlendings: Advantages: Good characters, including good starting Mages,
with the ability to name new tasty agents. Diasdvantages: Can be attacked
by the military superior Rhudaur (24). Special Rules: Name agents @40.
Easterlings: Advantages: Good characters, good military, including good
starting Mages. Safe location - hard to take out allowing for a slow build
up of nations. Diasdvantages: Often forced to go Dark Servant due to their
preceived geographical nature. This nation is basically split in half -
with half the Population centres near the Sea of Rhun and the other in the
far southeast - whichever side you join it's quite likely you'll lose the
other half.
Corsairs: Advantages: Good characters, including good starting Commanders
and best Navies. Diasdvantages: Can be attacked by the long term military
superior Harad. Adjacent to the Quiet Avenger communication with this Dark
Servant, and the Neutral Harad is essential. Special Rules: Navies.
Harad: Advantages: Awesome economic base. Diasdvantages: Poor Characters,
can be attacked by the short term military superior Corsair. Harad is split
in half by the sea so knowledge of navies is important. Adjacent to the
Quiet Avenger communication with this Dark Servant, the fleets of Free
People Southern Gondor and the Neutral Corsair is essential. Special Rules:
Navies, Hire army at no cost (770).

2950
Free People: Dwarves (8), Dunadan Rangers (4), Woodmen (1), Riders of Rohan
(3), South Gondor (7)
Dark Servant: Long Rider (19), Blind Sorcerer (15), Dark Lieutenants (20),
Fire King (18), Quiet Avenger (17)
Neutral: Corsairs (21), Khand Easterlings (25), Rhun Easterlings (22)

Woodmen: Advantages: Pretty safe nation. Agents and a decent economy.
Disadvantages: Danger of being attacked by Witch King. Special rules: Need
to understand military. Possibly need to learn about Agents.
South Gondor: Advantages: Excellent economy, strong characters, excellent
armies. Disdvantages: Team relies on your economic support. The team also
needs your military support which canbe daunting to organise. Special
Rules: Navies

Blind Sorcerer: Advantages: Best Mages in the game. Very tasty start army.
Disadvantages: Minor military impact, very much a support nation. Economy
can be dangerous if you keep your army for too long. Special Rules: Magic -
lots of it.

Quiet Avenger: Advantages: Strong potential economy (Emissaries @40).
Military minor (except navies). Strong character nation. Disadvantages:
Danger that the South Gondor attacks you with navy. Special rules - navies
make this nation more complex to play.

#2

Clint:

I would add Dog Lord to the 2950 list - top three in my mind. Starts
with a decent economic base, good mix of characters, average arties,
and has a back up MT already in place. Not to far from military
action and sheltered enough to stumble a few turns without
bankrupting. You don't have to worry about navies and best of all -
once your mages learn conjure mounts, you have another source of
goods to keep you afloat during those harsh winters.

Chris

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Middle Earth Games" <me@M...> wrote:

As requested here it is again. This is what I have created so far

with some

analysis of each nation. I've not done a strategic guide (there's

a 1 page

document with 2 lines per nation that we give out with set-ups for

loose

advice). I don't know 2950 very well so cannot really give advice

there - I

would appreciate players who have played it a lot to provide me

with some

examples of the advice that I have created for 1650.

Thanks - comments welcome.

Advice for selecting Nations for new players

When joining a game:

? Choose either 2950 or 1650. 2950 has a slower build up to 1650

which is

very aggressive and active from the game start. Players perfering

a slower

start should pick 2950 to 1650 games. 2950 games are more

character based,

but lower economic base to 1650.

? After choosing a scenario (1650 or 2950). Send me a list of the

nations

from the following list that you are happy to play (the more

nations you

choose the easier it is to create a balanced game). We strongly

advise

players choose these nations over any of the others available as

they are

particularly good for new players to the game.

In order or preference of ease and suitablility of play for new

players.

Choose Free People in preference to Dark Servants unless you have a

strong

preference for Dark Servants. They are easeier to play and more

independent

as a general rule. Dark Servants in Mordor need a lot of diplomacy

and

organisation to offset the Free Peoples military advantage at game

start.

In addition the Dark Servant economic deficit (around 1/3 the

income and

recruiting base of the Free) is a major hurdle to overcome and

often leads

to bankruptcy or under-recruit and you get swarmed to by the FP

hordes of

armies. DS have a strong agent and character advantage and are

mostly

defende by the Mountains of Mordor.

Neutrals: All Neutrals will need to join a side at some time.

Their major

advantages are that they are not under threat by other aligned

nations at

game start as they are Neutral. Neutral nations can sometimes

attack other

Neutrals - be warned! All have a strong economic base and all will

need to

chat to their aligned adjacent nations if they want to not be

attacked by

them. From a learning the game perspective it is often better to

join a

team and learn from your more experienced team-mates. As a Neutral

you will

have minor ot no assistance in learning the new game.

1650
Free People: Dwarves (8), Cardolan (5), Arthedain (4), Sindar (9),

South

Gondor (7)
Dark Servant: Long Rider (19), Blind Sorcerer (15), Fire King (18),

Dark

Lieutenants (20), Dog Lord (13)
Neutral: Dunlendings (23), Easterlings (25), Corsairs (21), Harad

(22)

Not Cardolan and Arthedain, nor Fire King and Dog Lord both as new

players

in the same game. Both Corsair and Harad as new players or neither.

Quick synopsis of each nation follows
Free People::
Dwarves: Advantages: strongly military, difficult to knock out,

strong

economic base. A couple of strong characters. Disadvantages:

spread over

map. Special rules - dwarves have some agent orders available to

them.

Cardolan: Advantages: Strong military, difficult to knock out,

decent

economic base. Safely in the Northwest this nation is an excellent
introduction to military recruitment and movement of large armies.
Disadvantages: Weak characters. Special rules: Hire army at no

cost (770).

Arthedain: Advantages: Strong military, decent economic base.

Safely in the

Northwest this nation is an excellent introduction to military

recruitment,

although weaker than Cardolan and movement of large armies.

Disadvantages:

Capital can be under threat by your nearest enemy the Witch King.

Special

rules: Mages
Sindar: Advantages: Strong Characters, good economic base, lots of

Magic and

agents. Disadvantages: Spread out population centres and armies.

Mages

are important for the team, so a reasonable level of diplomacy with

the team

can be daunting for new players. Special Rules: Hidden Population

centres,

spells.
South Gondor: Advantages: Excellent economy, strong characters,

excellent

armies. Disadvantages: Team relies on your economic support. The

team also

needs your military support which can be daunting to organise.

Special

Rules: Navies

Dark Servant:
Long Rider: Advantages: Strong Characters, decent economic base,

good

starting armies, safe capital and good agents. Independent to the

battle for

Mordor so low levels of communication needed. Disadvantages: Lots

to learn.

Special Rules: Agents, navies.
Blind Sorcerer: Advantages: Best Mages in the game. Very tasty

start army.

Disadvantages: Minor military impact, very much a support nation.

Economy

can be dangerous if you keep your army for too long. Special

Rules: Magic -

lots of it.
Fire King: Advantages: Strong military, decent economic base. Low
complexity. Nice mix of characters. This nation is an excellent
introduction to military recruitment and movement of large armies.
Disadvantages: Weak characters. On the forefront of the Gonorian

military

might you are potentially under threat from them. High level of

talking

with team-mates and organisation needed. Special rules: Hire

army at no

cost (770).
Dark Lieutenants: Advantages: One of the strongest Dark Servant

nations it

has very good characters, good agents. Safe population centres in

Mordor.

Strong economic base. Disadvantages: High complexity. Weak

militarily,

supporting role for the team is a necessity including some

sacrifice of

initital resources probably needed. Defence of Dog Lord, Ice King

or Fire

King essential.
Dog Lord: Advantages: Strong military, decent economic base. Medium-

high

complexity. Good characters with a nice mix of skills. This nation

is an

excellent introduction to military recruitment and movement of large
cavalry. Disadvantages: Morannon (capital) protects the route into

Mordor -

the heart land of the Dark Servants. You will come under attack by

the

Eothraim, Sindar, Northmen, Dwarves and/or North Gondor at some

point in the

game! Reasonable level of diplomacy with team-mates and

organisation needed.

Special rules: Summon Mounts.

Dunlendings: Advantages: Good characters, including good starting

Mages,

with the ability to name new tasty agents. Diasdvantages: Can be

attacked

by the military superior Rhudaur (24). Special Rules: Name agents

@40.

Easterlings: Advantages: Good characters, good military, including

good

starting Mages. Safe location - hard to take out allowing for a

slow build

up of nations. Diasdvantages: Often forced to go Dark Servant due

to their

preceived geographical nature. This nation is basically split in

half -

with half the Population centres near the Sea of Rhun and the other

in the

far southeast - whichever side you join it's quite likely you'll

lose the

other half.
Corsairs: Advantages: Good characters, including good starting

Commanders

and best Navies. Diasdvantages: Can be attacked by the long term

military

superior Harad. Adjacent to the Quiet Avenger communication with

this Dark

Servant, and the Neutral Harad is essential. Special Rules: Navies.
Harad: Advantages: Awesome economic base. Diasdvantages: Poor

Characters,

can be attacked by the short term military superior Corsair. Harad

is split

in half by the sea so knowledge of navies is important. Adjacent

to the

Quiet Avenger communication with this Dark Servant, the fleets of

Free

People Southern Gondor and the Neutral Corsair is essential.

Special Rules:

Navies, Hire army at no cost (770).

2950
Free People: Dwarves (8), Dunadan Rangers (4), Woodmen (1), Riders

of Rohan

(3), South Gondor (7)
Dark Servant: Long Rider (19), Blind Sorcerer (15), Dark

Lieutenants (20),

Fire King (18), Quiet Avenger (17)
Neutral: Corsairs (21), Khand Easterlings (25), Rhun Easterlings

(22)

Woodmen: Advantages: Pretty safe nation. Agents and a decent

economy.

Disadvantages: Danger of being attacked by Witch King. Special

rules: Need

to understand military. Possibly need to learn about Agents.
South Gondor: Advantages: Excellent economy, strong characters,

excellent

armies. Disdvantages: Team relies on your economic support. The

team also

needs your military support which canbe daunting to organise.

Special

Rules: Navies

Blind Sorcerer: Advantages: Best Mages in the game. Very tasty

start army.

Disadvantages: Minor military impact, very much a support nation.

Economy

can be dangerous if you keep your army for too long. Special

Rules: Magic -

lots of it.

Quiet Avenger: Advantages: Strong potential economy (Emissaries

@40).

Military minor (except navies). Strong character nation.

Disadvantages:

Danger that the South Gondor attacks you with navy. Special rules -

navies

···

make this nation more complex to play.

#3

Clint, I am absolutely horrified by some of the advice you've given in this document. Some of it is misleading if not downright wrong.

Bottom line: which nations are good or bad for newbies to start with, is very largely a matter of opinion. I've no objection to the nation summaries, but I feel very strongly that you should state that the "guidance" you offer newbies as to which nation they should take, is your OPINION and some very experienced players have different opinions!

I've inserted some of my differences of opinion below (well you did say comments welcome!):

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Middle Earth Games
  To: mepbmlist
  Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:28 PM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] ME suggested nations for new players with some commentry

  Thanks - comments welcome.

  Advice for selecting Nations for new players (Snip)

  Neutrals: (snip)
  As a Neutral you will have minor ot no assistance in learning the new game.
  RD: Not true in my experience. FP and DS players worth their salt will give PLENTY of assistance to neutral newbies in the hope of persuading those neutrals to join their team. It pays off too in my experience, especially if the opposition can't be bothered. Example from QA to Cor: "if you fill your troopships to capacity with hi, you can storm the SG capital!"

  1650
  Free People: Dwarves (8), Cardolan (5), Arthedain (4), Sindar (9), South
  Gondor (7)

  RD: I disagree about the last two. Sinda doesn't have enough commanders to start with and 2 of them command petty forces at remote outposts. Does Sin disband one or both and bring the coms home, or try to fight on 3 fronts? This is a BIG strategic decision and for the TEAM's sake the Sin player needs to get it right. Not a position to drop a newbie in!
  South Gondor: any newbie taking this position should be warned, it is essential that he talks to Cor & Harad to get at least one of them to join the FP. Chances are, if he reveals his inexperience, Cor and Harad will think "yum yum, easy victim."

  Let the newbies play Noldo and NGondor. Both are superpowers well able to soak up losses due to to beginner's mistakes. Indeed I've seen "experienced" players make a pig's ear of both positions so why not let the newbies have a go?

  Dark Servant: Long Rider (19), Blind Sorcerer (15), Fire King (18), Dark
  Lieutenants (20), Dog Lord (13)

  RD: Long Rider? You can NOT be serious! LR has the best starting agent on the DS team, and the TEAM need him at Morannon or in the Ithil Pass, not the obvious but very secondary target of Northmen capital where, btw, I've twice seen him killed due to an over-bold challenge v a lucky opponent. Also LR is particularly vulnerable to FP economic pressure.

  Fire King? He has to fight and recruit competently from turn 1 AND co-ordinate the defence of the Ithil Pass with Ice King and maybe others. He can't afford a foul-up so this is no position for a newbie.

  Why not Cloud lord & Quiet Avenger? OK they will need to get Harad on their side at least, but both, like BS, have time to develop their nations. I KNOW CL is a flagship nation but so are Noldo & NG. Give these to the newbies and let the experienced players prove their mettle by playing Woodies, Dragon lord etc!

  OK that's my two penn'orth,

  Richard.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

Clint, I am absolutely horrified by some of the advice you've given in this document. Some of it is misleading if not downright wrong.

*** Do you mind if I find some of yours horrifying as well?! :slight_smile:

I've inserted some of my differences of opinion below (well you did say comments welcome!):

** No problem I hope you don't mind if I differ in opinion.

  Neutrals: (snip)
  As a Neutral you will have minor ot no assistance in learning the new game.
  RD: Not true in my experience. FP and DS players worth their salt will give PLENTY of assistance to neutral newbies in the hope of persuading those neutrals to join their team. It pays off too in my experience, especially if the opposition can't be bothered. Example from QA to Cor: "if you fill your troopships to capacity with hi, you can storm the SG capital!"

*** Um not what I have seen. Often neutrals are left alone to fend for themselves. What about "As a Neutral you might find that you have minor or no....." In addition: Some teams will attempt to woo you with, amongst other items, advice and constructive commentary.

  1650
  Free People: Dwarves (8), Cardolan (5), Arthedain (4), Sindar (9), South
  Gondor (7)

  RD: I disagree about the last two. Sinda doesn't have enough commanders to start with and 2 of them command petty forces at remote outposts. Does Sin disband one or both and bring the coms home, or try to fight on 3 fronts? This is a BIG strategic decision and for the TEAM's sake the Sin player needs to get it right. Not a position to drop a newbie in!

No nation has enough commanders to begin with. If the NM was not so likely to be ate by some of the DS I would put that one forward as well.

  South Gondor: any newbie taking this position should be warned, it is essential that he talks to Cor & Harad to get at least one of them to join the FP. Chances are, if he reveals his inexperience, Cor and Harad will think "yum yum, easy victim."

*** Okay I agree with this.

  Let the newbies play Noldo and NGondor. Both are superpowers well able to soak up losses due to to beginner's mistakes. Indeed I've seen "experienced" players make a pig's ear of both positions so why not let the newbies have a go?

*** STRONGLY disagree I am afraid (for emphasis). If we say yes to NG and yet yes to SG that's doesn't make any sense to me. NG is much more important for the FP and it's fortunes often dictate the success of the FP team. (Or strongly linked to).

  Dark Servant: Long Rider (19), Blind Sorcerer (15), Fire King (18), Dark
  Lieutenants (20), Dog Lord (13)

  RD: Long Rider? You can NOT be serious! LR has the best starting agent on the DS team, and the TEAM need him at Morannon or in the Ithil Pass, not the obvious but very secondary target of Northmen capital where, btw, I've twice seen him killed due to an over-bold challenge v a lucky opponent. Also LR is particularly vulnerable to FP economic pressure.

*** One of the safest nations. In the above example you put forward NG or NO and then with this one you say it's too important. Doesn't seem to tally.

  Fire King? He has to fight and recruit competently from turn 1 AND co-ordinate the defence of the Ithil Pass with Ice King and maybe others. He can't afford a foul-up so this is no position for a newbie.

*** Could be right. Problem is that there are few DS that can be given due to the extra need to communicate that is essential for the DS. I am happy to downgrade it as it is "easy" to play but also important to the defence of Mordor. Same argument for DogLord though.

  Why not Cloud lord & Quiet Avenger? OK they will need to get Harad on their side at least, but both, like BS, have time to develop their nations. I KNOW CL is a flagship nation but so are Noldo & NG. Give these to the newbies and let the experienced players prove their mettle by playing Woodies, Dragon lord etc!

*** CL is what brought this entire topic up. QA I have added as I agree with you there. Don't know why I missed it.

  OK that's my two penn'orth,

*** Thanks very useful - I'll certainly implement some of these changes. Have you got some commentary for the 2950 game?

Clint

#5

> Fire King? He has to fight and recruit competently from turn 1 AND
> co-ordinate the defence of the Ithil Pass with Ice King and maybe
> others. He can't afford a foul-up so this is no position for a newbie.

*** Could be right. Problem is that there are few DS that can be given

due

to the extra need to communicate that is essential for the DS. I am happy
to downgrade it as it is "easy" to play but also important to the defence
of Mordor. Same argument for DogLord though.

Played FK in my first game after several years and finished third thanks to
the team. This position is very well documented and you will not make any
major mistakes before the team can give you some guidance. So this is really
an interesting position for a newbie and one that allows him to learn a lot
about armies and emmies if he really cares!
Peter

#6

As requested here it is again.

LGT: Thanks for this, and sorry I missed it the first time. I have to say that I agree almost entirely with Richard's comments re your selection of nations. I thought you were a little dismissive of him in your reply, perhaps because you had allowed yourself to be come ruffled by his use of the slightly strong word "horrified". For example, he told you that the Sinda have a command shortage at game start, and you waved this off with "all nations have a shortage of commanders". He was telling you that Sinda have a very specific shortage of commanders, and that this is more of a problem for them than it is for any other nation. He is thinking in terms of the first few "chess moves" in which there are practised ways to hurt Sinda badly, unless Sinda knows the countermoves.

I don't need to add more to what he said on nations. But I like the document as a whole, and just have some minor technical suggestions on your introduction below:

Advice for selecting Nations for new players

When joining a game:

? Choose either 2950 or 1650. 2950 has a slower build up to 1650 which is
very aggressive and active from the game start. Players perfering a slower
start should pick 2950 to 1650 games. 2950 games are more character based,
but lower economic base to 1650.

LGT: Plain English suggestion: Replace "economic base" with "economy" throughout - it's not as specifically accurate, but it reads better, and is appropriate to a simpler document.

LGT: Replace last sentence with "2950 games have some nations with stronger characters but the nations do not start mobilised for war - economic development is an early priority."

? After choosing a scenario (1650 or 2950). Send me a list of the nations
from the following list that you are happy to play (the more nations you
choose the easier it is to create a balanced game). We strongly advise
players choose these nations over any of the others available as they are
particularly good for new players to the game.

In order or preference of ease and suitablility of play for new players.
Choose Free People in preference to Dark Servants unless you have a strong
preference for Dark Servants. They are easeier to play and more independent
as a general rule. Dark Servants in Mordor need a lot of diplomacy and
organisation to offset the Free Peoples military advantage at game start.

In addition the Dark Servant economic deficit (around 1/3 the income and
recruiting base of the Free) is a major hurdle to overcome and often leads
to bankruptcy or under-recruit and you get swarmed to by the FP hordes of
armies. DS have a strong agent and character advantage and are mostly
defende by the Mountains of Mordor.

LGT: Grammar suggestion: say "under-recruitment" instead of "under-recruit"

Neutrals: All Neutrals will need to join a side at some time. Their major
advantages are that they are not under threat by other aligned nations at
game start as they are Neutral. Neutral nations can sometimes attack other
Neutrals - be warned! All have a strong economic base and all will need to
chat to their aligned adjacent nations if they want to not be attacked by
them. From a learning the game perspective it is often better to join a
team and learn from your more experienced team-mates. As a Neutral you will
have minor ot no assistance in learning the new game.

LGT: Add: If you do play a neutral, you will need to communicate regularly with players of the aligned nations, though you would do well not to advertise the fact that you are a new player - to the military aggressor, it might suggest you are a soft target!

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

···

At 14:28 13/11/2002, Middle Earth Games wrote:

#7

LGT: Thanks for this, and sorry I missed it the first time. I have to say
that I agree almost entirely with Richard's comments re your selection of
nations. I thought you were a little dismissive of him in your reply,
perhaps because you had allowed yourself to be come ruffled by his use of
the slightly strong word "horrified".

*** Not my thoughts. I am looking for feedback. Maybe you are ruffled by my use of the word "horrified" ? :slight_smile: (In jest). If it came across that way then my apologies - not intended. I like feedback, enjoy constructive criticism and act on it. I thought I was overall positive about his remarks, especially towards the end. Some points I disagree with, maybe that altered the perception?

  For example, he told you that the
Sinda have a command shortage at game start, and you waved this off with
"all nations have a shortage of commanders". He was telling you that Sinda
have a very specific shortage of commanders, and that this is more of a
problem for them than it is for any other nation. He is thinking in terms
of the first few "chess moves" in which there are practised ways to hurt
Sinda badly, unless Sinda knows the countermoves.

** But it is one of the safer nations to play. Very hard to impact on it in any real manner. Hence somewhat suitable by some of the criteria. All nations have lots of items they must do. Trying to find 5 nations is very hard here. Clearly it won't be played as well by an experienced players but on the other hand which nation would? Serious question: What specifically is wrong with this nation for a new player and if those are fair critiques what would you suggest I replace the Sindar with given that?

>Advice for selecting Nations for new players
>
>When joining a game:
>
>? Choose either 2950 or 1650. 2950 has a slower build up to 1650 which is
>very aggressive and active from the game start. Players perfering a slower
>start should pick 2950 to 1650 games. 2950 games are more character based,
>but lower economic base to 1650.

LGT: Plain English suggestion: Replace "economic base" with "economy"
throughout - it's not as specifically accurate, but it reads better, and is
appropriate to a simpler document.

*** I agree, good point.

LGT: Replace last sentence with "2950 games have some nations with stronger
characters but the nations do not start mobilised for war - economic
development is an early priority."

*** I prefer yours and will use it.

>? After choosing a scenario (1650 or 2950). Send me a list of the nations
>from the following list that you are happy to play (the more nations you
>choose the easier it is to create a balanced game). We strongly advise
>players choose these nations over any of the others available as they are
>particularly good for new players to the game.
>
>In order or preference of ease and suitablility of play for new players.
>Choose Free People in preference to Dark Servants unless you have a strong
>preference for Dark Servants. They are easeier to play and more independent
>as a general rule. Dark Servants in Mordor need a lot of diplomacy and
>organisation to offset the Free Peoples military advantage at game start.
>
>In addition the Dark Servant economic deficit (around 1/3 the income and
>recruiting base of the Free) is a major hurdle to overcome and often leads
>to bankruptcy or under-recruit and you get swarmed to by the FP hordes of
>armies. DS have a strong agent and character advantage and are mostly
>defende by the Mountains of Mordor.

LGT: Grammar suggestion: say "under-recruitment" instead of "under-recruit"

** Okay

>Neutrals: All Neutrals will need to join a side at some time. Their major
>advantages are that they are not under threat by other aligned nations at
>game start as they are Neutral. Neutral nations can sometimes attack other
>Neutrals - be warned! All have a strong economic base and all will need to
>chat to their aligned adjacent nations if they want to not be attacked by
>them. From a learning the game perspective it is often better to join a
>team and learn from your more experienced team-mates. As a Neutral you will
>have minor ot no assistance in learning the new game.

LGT: Add: If you do play a neutral, you will need to communicate regularly
with players of the aligned nations, though you would do well not to
advertise the fact that you are a new player - to the military aggressor,
it might suggest you are a soft target!

*** Not sure about the last part - I'll give it some thought.

Clint

#8

To help you to have a fun game:

Please note the house rules are that RULES. We apply them impartially across the board. If you haven't read them then please do so.

Bugbears:
1) Get your turn in by the DUE date.
2) If you don't get an autoresponse something has happened and we have NOT received your turn. Ie you need to get that turn to us by either sending again (we don't mind) and getting the autoresponse, faxing it, phoning it, posting it (if enough time) or getting a team-mate to use one of these methods.

Emails can take a time to get out to players and from you to us. Studies show that it's not 100% reliable either. So turns do go missing in the email (same as post sometimes go missing). Watch out for that. You will get very annoyed if we don't run your turn because we haven't received it.

We get an average of 6 Special Service turns per day. The reason why we don't hand edit all of those turns the next day, is cost. It takes a few hours to hand edit a turn.

3) We will reprint turns free of charge if we make an error, or if you wait one day before asking. We will charge you if the error is yours, or if you ask for a reprint on the day of processing.

The reasoning behind this is that turns are very often delayed by several hours and we don't want to have to reprint too many unnecessary turns.

(I work some part of each w/end as well so I can often get reprints done on the w/end - not always I like to have some spare time for non-MEPBM pursuits such as sleeping, but if I can I will try to get it out then).

Sorry if the above seems inflexible. We try to make simple and fair house rules so that you know where you stand and so that we don't end up doing hours of work for free. Many PBM firms make that mistake and then decide to drop out of PBM (DGE and Allsorts are just two). We hope that by being firm on this we can continue to run MePBM for you for the forseeable future :slight_smile:

Thanks

Clint

#9

RD: Hi Clint,

1) no I don't mind if you find some of my suggestions horrifying as well. It does however reinforce what I said (and you deleted!) that your suggested nations (or mine) are OPINIONS only, and this should be made plain if you are going to send it to newbies.

2) sorry can't help with 2950, as I don't play it enough.

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Middle Earth PBM Games
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 10:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] ME suggested nations for new players with some commentry

  >Clint, I am absolutely horrified by some of the advice you've given in
  >this document. Some of it is misleading if not downright wrong.

  *** Do you mind if I find some of yours horrifying as well?! :slight_smile:

  I've inserted some of my differences of opinion below (well you did say
  comments welcome!):

  >** No problem I hope you don't mind if I differ in opinion.

  > Neutrals: (snip)
  > As a Neutral you will have minor ot no assistance in learning the new game.
  > RD: Not true in my experience. FP and DS players worth their salt will
  > give PLENTY of assistance to neutral newbies in the hope of persuading
  > those neutrals to join their team. It pays off too in my experience,
  > especially if the opposition can't be bothered. Example from QA to Cor:
  > "if you fill your troopships to capacity with hi, you can storm the SG
  > capital!"

  *** Um not what I have seen. Often neutrals are left alone to fend for
  themselves. What about "As a Neutral you might find that you have minor or
  no....." In addition: Some teams will attempt to woo you with, amongst
  other items, advice and constructive commentary.

  RD: Yes, better.

  > 1650
  > Free People: Dwarves (8), Cardolan (5), Arthedain (4), Sindar (9), South
  > Gondor (7)
  >
  > RD: I disagree about the last two. Sinda doesn't have enough
  > commanders to start with and 2 of them command petty forces at remote
  > outposts. Does Sin disband one or both and bring the coms home, or try
  > to fight on 3 fronts? This is a BIG strategic decision and for the
  > TEAM's sake the Sin player needs to get it right. Not a position to drop
  > a newbie in!

  No nation has enough commanders to begin with. If the NM was not so likely
  to be ate by some of the DS I would put that one forward as well.

  > South Gondor: any newbie taking this position should be warned, it is
  > essential that he talks to Cor & Harad to get at least one of them to
  > join the FP. Chances are, if he reveals his inexperience, Cor and Harad
  > will think "yum yum, easy victim."

  *** Okay I agree with this.

  > Let the newbies play Noldo and NGondor. Both are superpowers well able
  > to soak up losses due to to beginner's mistakes. Indeed I've seen
  > "experienced" players make a pig's ear of both positions so why not let
  > the newbies have a go?

  *** STRONGLY disagree I am afraid (for emphasis). If we say yes to NG and
  yet yes to SG that's doesn't make any sense to me. NG is much more
  important for the FP and it's fortunes often dictate the success of the FP
  team. (Or strongly linked to).

  > Dark Servant: Long Rider (19), Blind Sorcerer (15), Fire King (18), Dark
  > Lieutenants (20), Dog Lord (13)
  >
  > RD: Long Rider? You can NOT be serious! LR has the best starting
  > agent on the DS team, and the TEAM need him at Morannon or in the Ithil
  > Pass, not the obvious but very secondary target of Northmen capital
  > where, btw, I've twice seen him killed due to an over-bold challenge v a
  > lucky opponent. Also LR is particularly vulnerable to FP economic pressure.

  *** One of the safest nations. In the above example you put forward NG or
  NO and then with this one you say it's too important. Doesn't seem to tally.

  > Fire King? He has to fight and recruit competently from turn 1 AND
  > co-ordinate the defence of the Ithil Pass with Ice King and maybe
  > others. He can't afford a foul-up so this is no position for a newbie.

  *** Could be right. Problem is that there are few DS that can be given due
  to the extra need to communicate that is essential for the DS. I am happy
  to downgrade it as it is "easy" to play but also important to the defence
  of Mordor. Same argument for DogLord though.

  > Why not Cloud lord & Quiet Avenger? OK they will need to get Harad on
  > their side at least, but both, like BS, have time to develop their
  > nations. I KNOW CL is a flagship nation but so are Noldo & NG. Give
  > these to the newbies and let the experienced players prove their mettle
  > by playing Woodies, Dragon lord etc!

  *** CL is what brought this entire topic up. QA I have added as I agree
  with you there. Don't know why I missed it.

  > OK that's my two penn'orth,

  *** Thanks very useful - I'll certainly implement some of these
  changes. Have you got some commentary for the 2950 game?

  Clint

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

1) no I don't mind if you find some of my suggestions horrifying as well. It does however reinforce what I said (and you deleted!) that your suggested nations (or mine) are OPINIONS only, and this should be made plain if you are going to send it to newbies.

I only comment on the bits that I comment on. The other bits I delete to keep emails brief so that people don't have to wade through lots of items that has been repeated before. Common courtesy. It's not that I have an opinion on your comment on OPINIONS and that by deleting it I was making a comment - rather to save bandwidth. In answer, just in case you were taking it that I was being rude; clearly they are opinions only.
<Snip>

Clint

<Snip>

#11

Dont know if this has been broached already, if so sorry.

Might it be worthwhile to contact some of the "newer" players in
games at present and ask them if they find the position they are
playing to be a good one to learn with? Ask them if they consider it
difficult or easy and whether they would recommend it as a good
learning spot to another new player.

-Fletch-

#12

Now that sounds quite useful, although to some extent the initial experience
may depend on the people they've got on their team.

As a data point, my first game was as the Eothraim and I took an absolute
pasting. Second time around, South Gondor, I'm doing a lot less badly (with
a fair bit of help from my team-mates). A vote in favour of at least some of
Clint's list, I guess.

Regards,
Tim.

···

On Monday 18 November 2002 7:29 pm, you wrote:

Dont know if this has been broached already, if so sorry.

Might it be worthwhile to contact some of the "newer" players in
games at present and ask them if they find the position they are
playing to be a good one to learn with? Ask them if they consider it
difficult or easy and whether they would recommend it as a good
learning spot to another new player.