middle earth question for people time on their hands

greetings.

just got toasted in the deft mailing list. I'm accepting the loss, so I'm
moving over here to continue the debate.

In the states they have convicts playing middle earth by smail. I got
toasted when I said that on average most people in jail are for small drug
stuff, and ar not sickos (ie child-molesters, murderers, rapists, etc). I
got a reply from a person who had three active convicts in his side, all
were murderers. Alas, sometimes averages are only averages.

questions

a) why don't we see this situation in the UK ? I think someone in the US
must be pushing PBM games as a hobby for the inmates ? Which leads to

b) if people are pushing PBM games onto the convicts in the USA prisons,
would people mind if Clint did the same thing for Harlequin ? This then
leads to

b) what would people do if they found three murderers in their side ? In a
joking mood I would tell the enemy. Would you steal money (let alone burnt
his pop centres) of a person who has already killed a few people ? In a
serious mood, I wouldn't prejudge them and refuse to talk to them from the
start. But if they were not really interested in the game, then I might
later give them up. Alas, talking to players only by smail (and not by email
or phone) would be a REAL bummer.

thanks
m

p.s I wonder what address my allies seen on their cover sheet ? If a
murderer was a smailer in a game I played, he would get my address even
before I got to say 'ick'.

a) why don't we see this situation in the UK ? I think someone in the US
must be pushing PBM games as a hobby for the inmates ? Which leads to

Think it's the U.S. Penetentiary System itself, meaning they look for US based
pbm/pbem companies first.

rgds

b.e.

questions

a) why don't we see this situation in the UK ?

Because the press will remind everybody that "fantasy role playing games
by post" encourage psychos. We had a particularly harrowing event here
some years ago in a little market town called Hungerford. A maniac went
round one Saturday afternoon shooting everyone he could find. Turned
out afterwards that he was into PBM, and the press made much of it.

I think someone in the US
must be pushing PBM games as a hobby for the inmates ? Which leads to
b) if people are pushing PBM games onto the convicts in the USA prisons,
would people mind if Clint did the same thing for Harlequin ?

Yes, rather. I'd like to say "Of course not" and have fine principles,
but when it really comes down to it... I don't choose to deliberately
associate myself with people who might one day do me harm. A long time
ago when I was doing youth work, I even visited prison once, for a
chapel service - damned scary as the enormous Victorian cast iron doors
slammed shut. But I really wouldn't want any of the people I met there
to have any chance whatsoever to get my address. Sounds cowardly
doesn't it? Do you have children Michael? Things change when you do,
you tend to put their safety above fine principles.

This then
leads to
b) what would people do if they found three murderers in their side ?

Have you met some of the guys I play with? All of them very dodgy
types, with whacky ideas and violent tendencies when crossed...

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

···

Michael Peters <MPeters@nskomatsu.com.au> wrote

I don't think nutters would play a Middle Earth game: i'd be understanding
if you played an evil game like Die and Die Again or Vampire PBM/RPGs, but
not Tolkien! He was a man with strong Christian beliefs and views, and his
books show that: so a game based on his books is harmless fun! You're more
likely to find more harm in adult video games than RPGs!
Anyway, all the bad stuff happens in the US...not the glorious UK!

···

----- Original Message -----
From: Laurence G. Tilley <laurence@lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] middle earth question for people time on their
hands

Michael Peters <MPeters@nskomatsu.com.au> wrote
>questions
>
>a) why don't we see this situation in the UK ?
Because the press will remind everybody that "fantasy role playing games
by post" encourage psychos. We had a particularly harrowing event here
some years ago in a little market town called Hungerford. A maniac went
round one Saturday afternoon shooting everyone he could find. Turned
out afterwards that he was into PBM, and the press made much of it.

>I think someone in the US
>must be pushing PBM games as a hobby for the inmates ? Which leads to
>b) if people are pushing PBM games onto the convicts in the USA prisons,
>would people mind if Clint did the same thing for Harlequin ?
Yes, rather. I'd like to say "Of course not" and have fine principles,
but when it really comes down to it... I don't choose to deliberately
associate myself with people who might one day do me harm. A long time
ago when I was doing youth work, I even visited prison once, for a
chapel service - damned scary as the enormous Victorian cast iron doors
slammed shut. But I really wouldn't want any of the people I met there
to have any chance whatsoever to get my address. Sounds cowardly
doesn't it? Do you have children Michael? Things change when you do,
you tend to put their safety above fine principles.

>This then
>leads to
>b) what would people do if they found three murderers in their side ?
Have you met some of the guys I play with? All of them very dodgy
types, with whacky ideas and violent tendencies when crossed...

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm

greetings.

just got toasted in the deft mailing list. I'm accepting the loss, so I'm
moving over here to continue the debate.

In the states they have convicts playing middle earth by smail. I got
toasted when I said that on average most people in jail are for small drug
stuff, and ar not sickos (ie child-molesters, murderers, rapists, etc). I
got a reply from a person who had three active convicts in his side, all
were murderers. Alas, sometimes averages are only averages.

questions

a) why don't we see this situation in the UK ? I think someone in the US
must be pushing PBM games as a hobby for the inmates ? Which leads to

b) if people are pushing PBM games onto the convicts in the USA prisons,
would people mind if Clint did the same thing for Harlequin ? This then
leads to

b) what would people do if they found three murderers in their side ? In a
joking mood I would tell the enemy. Would you steal money (let alone

burnt

his pop centres) of a person who has already killed a few people ? In a
serious mood, I wouldn't prejudge them and refuse to talk to them from the
start. But if they were not really interested in the game, then I might
later give them up. Alas, talking to players only by smail (and not by

email

or phone) would be a REAL bummer.

thanks
m

p.s I wonder what address my allies seen on their cover sheet ? If a
murderer was a smailer in a game I played, he would get my address even
before I got to say 'ick'.

RD: What a can of worms this opens up. OK, let's say Clint gets some
applications to play PBM from prisoners. I think he is bound to ask the
rest of us whether we want to play with such people. Would you want your
address given to a convicted crim?

Secondly, how do you know what the guy is in for? He might be a murderer,
but tell his team-mates he was sent down for a tax fiddle, so as to appear
harmless. Or he might be a petty thief, and tell you he's a murderer so as
to intimidate you. How you gonna check?

In passing, how do you know one of your current team-mates isn't a murderer
who hasn't been caught?

I was sent to prison about 25 years ago for a sizeable theft, when I was
young, stupid and opportunist. I served 9 months of a 12-month sentence
during which it became obvious that the old lags got treated a lot better
than first offenders on short sentences like like me. As a first offender,
I should have been sent to an open prison, but there weren't any vacancies.
You also had to serve at least a year before you were allowed out on
'association' ie table-tennis, tv etc., because again places were limited
and reserved for cons who had behaved themselves for a long time. The
longer your sentence, the more comfortable your life was made because the
screws didn't want any trouble from you.

We were usually 3 men to a cell not just because of lack of accommodation,
but because the authorities felt that the presence of a 3rd man would
discourage fights or sodomy which might occur between two. It was blatantly
obvious that drugs were rife but the screws didn't want to know. In the
nine months I spent inside, there were two suicides, a killing, a riot and
countless fights (none of which made the papers).

The prisoners themselves ranged from harmless, stupid young first offenders
like myself, thru saddos locked in a cycle of petty crime and prison because
they knew no other life, to junkies and if not murderers, certainly
kidnappers, rapists and child molesters who had to be locked up in solitary
for their own protection.

On a lighter note, when asked what my religion was, I noticed that nearly
everybody else had answered 'Sikh.' Querying this, I was told that Sikhs
could not be made to have their hair cut, on religious grounds. I became an
instant convert!

Having done my time, I led a life which if not entirely blameless, at least
never risked prison again. It's not an experience I would wish to repeat,
and in answer to m, I would not wish my address to be known to a single one
of the people I met inside.

Regards,

Richard.

We have had the occasional person who was under psychological treatment and
only once have I had a fear of a player becoming violent towards me. As
mentioned before I played with a guy in the US who was in prison, and for me
personally it was not a problem. Not quite sure how we would handle it if
we had interest from the prisons though. Have to give that some thought.
We did have a prison warden playing - he told us a few scary stories... :slight_smile:

We are able to hide postal addresses and now with 90% of players on email
(not necessarily getting turns that way) it would only have to affect a
small proportion of players. Generally I find PBM to be much less
aggressive than Boardgaming or even Roleplaying

Clint

> >I think someone in the US
> >must be pushing PBM games as a hobby for the inmates ? Which leads to
> >b) if people are pushing PBM games onto the convicts in the USA

prisons,

···

> >would people mind if Clint did the same thing for Harlequin ?
> Yes, rather. I'd like to say "Of course not" and have fine principles,
> but when it really comes down to it... I don't choose to deliberately
> associate myself with people who might one day do me harm. A long time
> ago when I was doing youth work, I even visited prison once, for a
> chapel service - damned scary as the enormous Victorian cast iron doors
> slammed shut. But I really wouldn't want any of the people I met there
> to have any chance whatsoever to get my address. Sounds cowardly
> doesn't it? Do you have children Michael? Things change when you do,
> you tend to put their safety above fine principles.

RD: why, thank you Laurence!

Regards,

Richard.

···

Michael Peters <MPeters@nskomatsu.com.au> wrote
>questions
>
>a) why don't we see this situation in the UK ?
Because the press will remind everybody that "fantasy role playing games
by post" encourage psychos. We had a particularly harrowing event here
some years ago in a little market town called Hungerford. A maniac went
round one Saturday afternoon shooting everyone he could find. Turned
out afterwards that he was into PBM, and the press made much of it.

>I think someone in the US
>must be pushing PBM games as a hobby for the inmates ? Which leads to
>b) if people are pushing PBM games onto the convicts in the USA prisons,
>would people mind if Clint did the same thing for Harlequin ?
Yes, rather. I'd like to say "Of course not" and have fine principles,
but when it really comes down to it... I don't choose to deliberately
associate myself with people who might one day do me harm. A long time
ago when I was doing youth work, I even visited prison once, for a
chapel service - damned scary as the enormous Victorian cast iron doors
slammed shut. But I really wouldn't want any of the people I met there
to have any chance whatsoever to get my address. Sounds cowardly
doesn't it? Do you have children Michael? Things change when you do,
you tend to put their safety above fine principles.

>This then
>leads to
>b) what would people do if they found three murderers in their side ?
Have you met some of the guys I play with? All of them very dodgy
types, with whacky ideas and violent tendencies when crossed...

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/