middle earth question for people time on their hands

mepbmlist
#1

>
Don't confuse yourself with copycat worlds, in the
"original" Fantasy world
of Tolkien, the first with dwarves, elves, orcs,
goblins, hobbits etc, orcs and
elves are actually the same brethren, they can
actually "fertilise" each another,
orcs in middle earth are Sauron's corrupted version
of elves.

morgoth's corrupted version actually.

When the elves first 'awoke', the servants of morgoth
would kidnap isolated elves and take them back to
morgoth's northern fortress, and they were corrupted
into orcs. Morgorth (and later Sauron) were unable to
create life, so they corrupted what they could get. I
think Tolkien was pointed something out when he said
that evil couldn't create life (methinks he is
reminding us that only God with a capital G has the
power to create life). As a devout catholic writer its
very hard to see him push his faith anywhere in his
writing, but I can see fingerprints. The 'only the
supreme being can create life' is one set of
fingerprints.

When the Valar first meet the elves, the elves were
worried that they finally got to met the creature who
had been kidnapping their kinfolk. It was a test of
faith that some elves trusted the Valar who said
'follow me' (they became the high elves and the most
powerful of the elves), some elves didn't trust the
Valar (and become the common elves). And some elves
trusted the Valar, then chickened out in the middle of
the journey (the middle elves). <more finerprints
methinks in this test of faith>

laurence and RD might know the names of the different
elven classes, but I like to think noldor and vanyar
are the high, sindar the middle, and silvan the
common.

Sauron was a magican who was mentioned in the tales of
beren. In the LoTR Sauron was able to breed common
orcs into more powerful orcs. Its implied that he used
humans to cross-breed with the common orcs.

but morgorth was the one who corrupted elves into the
orcs.

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#2

> Don't confuse yourself with copycat worlds, in the
> "original" Fantasy world
> of Tolkien, the first with dwarves, elves, orcs,
> goblins, hobbits etc, orcs and
> elves are actually the same brethren, they can
> actually "fertilise" each another,
> orcs in middle earth are Sauron's corrupted version
> of elves.

morgoth's corrupted version actually.

When the elves first 'awoke', the servants of morgoth
would kidnap isolated elves and take them back to
morgoth's northern fortress, and they were corrupted
into orcs. Morgorth (and later Sauron) were unable to
create life, so they corrupted what they could get. I
think Tolkien was pointed something out when he said
that evil couldn't create life (methinks he is
reminding us that only God with a capital G has the
power to create life). As a devout catholic writer its
very hard to see him push his faith anywhere in his
writing, but I can see fingerprints. The 'only the
supreme being can create life' is one set of
fingerprints.

When the Valar first meet the elves, the elves were
worried that they finally got to met the creature who
had been kidnapping their kinfolk. It was a test of
faith that some elves trusted the Valar who said
'follow me' (they became the high elves and the most
powerful of the elves), some elves didn't trust the
Valar (and become the common elves). And some elves
trusted the Valar, then chickened out in the middle of
the journey (the middle elves). <more finerprints
methinks in this test of faith>

laurence and RD might know the names of the different
elven classes, but I like to think noldor and vanyar
are the high, sindar the middle, and silvan the
common.

RD: the only slight quibble I have with the above is that the Vanyar (who
never left Valinor except once, to fight in ther Great Battle) were the most
powerful of the Eldar, and were known as Fair or Light-Elves. The Noldor
were the most powerful of the Eldar who stayed in Middle-earth, and were
also known as Deep-elves. The Sindar were the least powerful of the Eldar,
also known as grey elves. High Elves was an alternative name for the Eldar,
all 3 tribes of them. The Eldar were the elves who undertook the Great
Journey to Aman, the dwelling of the gods on earth, and were therefore
blessed to a greater or lesser degree.

The Silvan elves, the most numerous and least powerful, were not counted
amongst the Eldar because they had never left Middle-earth.

Sauron was a magican who was mentioned in the tales of
beren. In the LoTR Sauron was able to breed common
orcs into more powerful orcs. Its implied that he used
humans to cross-breed with the common orcs.

but morgorth was the one who corrupted elves into the
orcs.

Sauron was actually a Maia, or lesser god, of the same order as Gandalf and
the other wizards, Balrogs, Tom Bombadil, and (believe it or not) Farmer
Maggot (how else d'you think he was able to resist a Nazgul). Morgoth was
an Ainu, or major god, who was given greater power than any other by
Iluvatar,the supreme god.

In passing, it is interesting to note how similar the name Vanyar is to the
Vanar (lesser gods) of Norse Mythology. Come to that, Ainu is not a million
miles from the Aesir, greater Norse gods. Tolkien's dwarf Gimle takes his
name from an identical Icelandic word meaning Shining Heaven.

Regards,

Richard.