Middle Earth

[88_Noldo]

Clint:
I'm saying try the Stassun-Fields artistic vision at least once. Brad and John develped a module, that looks like it is working, that has brought back some of the cut-throat chaos of the 'old days'. So, there must be some demand for things approaching the original. Make it available at least once and see. Sure keep it email, just don't bend over backwards spoon feeding the players.

Those guys in Oregon were so inefficient (i'm still waiting for them to send me those 3 1/2 year old Harley turns) it forced me to buy a computer, learn to email and surf the web. Not a joy to you for reasons we all understand.

After I joined this list, way back when, it was astonsihing the "bad mouth" I found on it for Stassun and Feilds. This was from persons who clearly did nto understand the game and wanted the spotlight shining directly in front of their feet. The shadows either don't exist or is some form of cheating. These individuals are unable to operate except with clear directions. No wonder, I guess, why they didn't like GSI--entirely to demanding.

Lets see if people who want more complexity can obtain it by being thrown into the shadows once more.
Ed

PS. Didn't mean to offend you or the English.

···

From: ME Games Ltd <me@MiddleEarthGames.com>
Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mepbmlist] Middle Earth
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:10:16 +0000

I think that the game has developed and changed over the years. Is that
our doing? Yes to a certain extent but mostly in response to what players
want. It's clear to me that some players want a fresh challenge and the
only way that was ever going to occur was us running GSI. So we're in the
process of developing new modules (bought the Tolkien map book today - yum
I'd love to do a 1st Age game but that's for the future) and attempting to
respond to the market pressures.

Clearly the biggest change has been email and how that impacts on the
game. National styles are just that, individuals are where it counts and
how they play the game (and how we run it).

I enjoy lots of different styles of ME - we just had our team meet for our
Grudge game and ending up chatting about WW2 and the most decisive
battle/event (something for an off topic discussion maybe!). But also I
enjoy the solo game of Gunboat or playing a "dirty" Neutral and building
up. part of the appeal of the game is that you can play it in many
different ways.

I prefer constructive comments on how we can improve the game where it's
possible, but content to take the odd jibe (being alluded to being English
- well that's a bit difficult to deal with - maybe I'll go blow up some
holiday homes!) But I also try to have a sense of humour. I'm not sure
what you want altogether Ed, if it's a return to the "good old days" where
25% of players dropped GSI games over 4 years, or within 3 years 5
companies stopped running Middle Earth due to lack of money/energy I don't
think that would be a good place to go. If you want the old style of game
- I can't see how that's possible either, with email and communication and
energy levels for players the way it is. I personally don't agree with you
about the mapping program and program aids, but understand your hatred of
all things computer. So what could we do?

Clint

>Yes, but being a computer illiterate I ask Scott to make the changes I need
>first.
>Ed

> >Who you calling English? Dw i'n Cymraeg....
> >
> >As Brad said, you can do what you want - most players just share pdfs and a
> >report about what's happened in their turn. It's not compulsory but
> >generally gives you team the edge if you do share turns.
> >
> >We give out the contact details but if you don't want to have them sent out
> >you can with-hold them. (Just tell us when you set-up). GSI didn't but
> >then there were lots of diplos back and fore finding out who was what. The
> >game has moved on. Less communication and co-ordination but due to the
> >nature of Email that's changed.
> >
> >Ed, out of curiosity, do you share your pdf and XML?
> >
> >Clint
> >
> >Steve:
> > >Brad, of course, is correct. This flows from Harley (unlike GSI)
> >providing
> > >everyone with their allies' names. You are forced to be good---just like
> > >Harley intends. Unlike GSI, which gave Free Choice in an amoral Real
> > >Politik. Does this make the game better? I think not. It is certainly
> > >less challenging. But it conforms to an English 'spirit-of-the-game'.
> > >Ed Mills
> > >
> > > >From: Brad Brunet <bbrunec296@rogers.com>
> > > >Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Sharing pdfs in pickup games
> > > >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:34:29 -0500 (EST)
> > > >
> > > >In an independent game, one mostly hears:
> > > >
> > > >"This is how my turn went and this is what I'm doing."
> > > >
> > > >In a (good) Grudge game, one mostly hears:
> > > >
> > > >"This is how my turn went. What are we doing next?"
> > > >
> > > >So play your independent game to whatever drummer is playing in your
> >head,
> > > >it's your money. Simply be aware that the vast majority of players DO
> > > >share files. Upon saying "I won't", understand that some will simply
> >never
> > > >be satisfied with whatever reasons you give and will default to
> >assuming
> > > >that your intentions are ill towards your teammates.
> > > >
> > > >The Team Game psyche is Orwellian - you have to fully disclose to prove
> >you
> > > >aren't up to something, as opposed to "innocent until proven guilty".
> > > >
> > > >Brad
> > > >
> > > >Ovatha Easterling <ovatha88@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >RE: Sharing pdfs in 25 nation pickup games.
> > > >
> > > >Syeve:
> > > >You can do any damn thing you want. You are not required to move in
> > > >lockstep with anyone.
> > > >Ed Mills
> > > >
> > > >Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > > >To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > > >Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > >To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > >Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
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> > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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> >
> >****************************************************************
> > ME Games Ltd
> > me@middleearthgames.com
> > www.middleearthgames.com
> >
> >UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
> > Tel 029 2062 5665 12-6.30 Weekdays
> > Fax 029 2062 5532 24 hours
> >
> >US: PO Box 680155, Marietta, GA 30068-0003
> > Tel 770 579 6813 EST Weekdays
> > Fax 503 296 2325
> >****************************************************************
> > Middle Earth - Legends
> > Serim Ral - Exile
> >
> > ----------
> >
> >---
> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.784 / Virus Database: 530 - Release Date: 27/10/04
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
>To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
>Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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****************************************************************
                 ME Games Ltd
         me@middleearthgames.com
         www.middleearthgames.com

UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
         Tel 029 2062 5665 12-6.30 Weekdays
         Fax 029 2062 5532 24 hours

US: PO Box 680155, Marietta, GA 30068-0003
         Tel 770 579 6813 EST Weekdays
         Fax 503 296 2325
****************************************************************
         Middle Earth - Legends
         Serim Ral - Exile

  ----------

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[Harlequin_Games1]

Clint:
I'm saying try the Stassun-Fields artistic vision at least once. Brad and
John develped a module, that looks like it is working, that has brought back
some of the cut-throat chaos of the 'old days'. So, there must be some
demand for things approaching the original. Make it available at least once
and see. Sure keep it email, just don't bend over backwards spoon feeding
the players.

We have done - that's why we changed the way that we run things. DGE were
losing players fast when we took them over. We were gaining those
players. The difference? DGE basically run it the same way as GSI did.

If I felt that there was a demand for the style that you want then I'd
support it. Despite your worries I think that I am both a reasonable
person and a decent businessman.

After I joined this list, way back when, it was astonsihing the "bad
mouth" I found on it for Stassun and Feilds. This was from persons who
clearly did
nto understand the game and wanted the spotlight shining directly in
front of their feet.

I don't think so. Note I get more "bad mouth" from you than 99% of all the
rest of the players combined. I'm not sure why that is or what you want
nor why you defend them. Some just didn't like the way that GSI ran
things. Heh, you don't like the way that we run it - so it's quite
reasonable to suppose that these players don't like the GSI method. I get
lots of emails saying that players like the game and the way we both
support it and attempt to move it on. We even did the Questionnaire to get
the silent majority to respond to find out what players really wanted. I'm
supporting that....

These individuals are unable to operate except with clear
directions. No wonder, I guess, why they didn't like GSI--entirely to
demanding.

Part of the reason that GSI ran it the way they did was energy. They
basically had limited time in the day to look after extra bits. For
example, GSI didn't do edits if they made a mistake. How can that be a
good thing? It caused no end of drop outs. Note I think that GSI did
lots of good or even great things, but some things they did weren't that
good and I think that we've improved the game overall. Change of any sort
is never going to please all of the people all of the time.

Lets see if people who want more complexity can obtain it by being
thrown into the shadows once more.

There's always Gunboat for this sort of thing. OR, as I've mentioned if
players WANT a variant were we limit the sort of things that you are asking
for then we'd be happy to support that. I've not seen a player base for
that. I'm not afraid to support it if that's what players want but I just
haven't seen that from the player base. Find these players and I'll
support that format of game. Reverting to the "bad old days" of GSI isn't
going to please anyone except a small minority in my opinion and annoy a
lot of players in the game.

PS. Didn't mean to offend you or the English.

No offence taken...

Clint

···

----------

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[Richard_DEVEREUX1]

Clint:
I'm saying try the Stassun-Fields artistic vision at least once. Brad and
John develped a module, that looks like it is working, that has brought

back

some of the cut-throat chaos of the 'old days'. So, there must be some
demand for things approaching the original. Make it available at least

once

and see. Sure keep it email, just don't bend over backwards spoon feeding
the players.

Those guys in Oregon were so inefficient (i'm still waiting for them to

send

me those 3 1/2 year old Harley turns) it forced me to buy a computer,

learn

to email and surf the web. Not a joy to you for reasons we all

understand.

After I joined this list, way back when, it was astonsihing the "bad

mouth"

I found on it for Stassun and Feilds. This was from persons who clearly

did

nto understand the game and wanted the spotlight shining directly in front
of their feet. The shadows either don't exist or is some form of

cheating.

These individuals are unable to operate except with clear directions. No
wonder, I guess, why they didn't like GSI--entirely to demanding.

Lets see if people who want more complexity can obtain it by being thrown
into the shadows once more.
Ed

PS. Didn't mean to offend you or the English.

RD: Hey Ed, I think if you called all of us in the UK Brits, nobody could
take offence! We're all mongrels.

Richard.

>From: ME Games Ltd <me@MiddleEarthGames.com>
>Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [mepbmlist] Middle Earth
>Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:10:16 +0000
>
>I think that the game has developed and changed over the years. Is that
>our doing? Yes to a certain extent but mostly in response to what

players

>want. It's clear to me that some players want a fresh challenge and the
>only way that was ever going to occur was us running GSI. So we're in

the

>process of developing new modules (bought the Tolkien map book today -

yum

>I'd love to do a 1st Age game but that's for the future) and attempting

to

>respond to the market pressures.
>
>Clearly the biggest change has been email and how that impacts on the
>game. National styles are just that, individuals are where it counts and
>how they play the game (and how we run it).
>
>I enjoy lots of different styles of ME - we just had our team meet for

our

>Grudge game and ending up chatting about WW2 and the most decisive
>battle/event (something for an off topic discussion maybe!). But also I
>enjoy the solo game of Gunboat or playing a "dirty" Neutral and building
>up. part of the appeal of the game is that you can play it in many
>different ways.
>
>I prefer constructive comments on how we can improve the game where it's
>possible, but content to take the odd jibe (being alluded to being

English

>- well that's a bit difficult to deal with - maybe I'll go blow up some
>holiday homes!) But I also try to have a sense of humour. I'm not sure
>what you want altogether Ed, if it's a return to the "good old days"

where

>25% of players dropped GSI games over 4 years, or within 3 years 5
>companies stopped running Middle Earth due to lack of money/energy I

don't

>think that would be a good place to go. If you want the old style of

game

>- I can't see how that's possible either, with email and communication

and

>energy levels for players the way it is. I personally don't agree with

you

>about the mapping program and program aids, but understand your hatred of
>all things computer. So what could we do?
>
>Clint
>
>
> >Yes, but being a computer illiterate I ask Scott to make the changes I
>need
> >first.
> >Ed
>
>
>
> > >Who you calling English? Dw i'n Cymraeg....
> > >
> > >As Brad said, you can do what you want - most players just share pdfs
>and a
> > >report about what's happened in their turn. It's not compulsory but
> > >generally gives you team the edge if you do share turns.
> > >
> > >We give out the contact details but if you don't want to have them

sent

>out
> > >you can with-hold them. (Just tell us when you set-up). GSI didn't
>but
> > >then there were lots of diplos back and fore finding out who was

what.

>The
> > >game has moved on. Less communication and co-ordination but due to

the

> > >nature of Email that's changed.
> > >
> > >Ed, out of curiosity, do you share your pdf and XML?
> > >
> > >Clint
> > >
> > >Steve:
> > > >Brad, of course, is correct. This flows from Harley (unlike GSI)
> > >providing
> > > >everyone with their allies' names. You are forced to be

good---just

>like
> > > >Harley intends. Unlike GSI, which gave Free Choice in an amoral

Real

> > > >Politik. Does this make the game better? I think not. It is
>certainly
> > > >less challenging. But it conforms to an English

'spirit-of-the-game'.

> > > >Ed Mills
> > > >
> > > > >From: Brad Brunet <bbrunec296@rogers.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Sharing pdfs in pickup games
> > > > >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:34:29 -0500 (EST)
> > > > >
> > > > >In an independent game, one mostly hears:
> > > > >
> > > > >"This is how my turn went and this is what I'm doing."
> > > > >
> > > > >In a (good) Grudge game, one mostly hears:
> > > > >
> > > > >"This is how my turn went. What are we doing next?"
> > > > >
> > > > >So play your independent game to whatever drummer is playing in
>your
> > >head,
> > > > >it's your money. Simply be aware that the vast majority of

players

>DO
> > > > >share files. Upon saying "I won't", understand that some will
>simply
> > >never
> > > > >be satisfied with whatever reasons you give and will default to
> > >assuming
> > > > >that your intentions are ill towards your teammates.
> > > > >
> > > > >The Team Game psyche is Orwellian - you have to fully disclose to
>prove
> > >you
> > > > >aren't up to something, as opposed to "innocent until proven
>guilty".
> > > > >
> > > > >Brad
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >RE: Sharing pdfs in 25 nation pickup games.
> > > > >
> > > > >Syeve:
> > > > >You can do any damn thing you want. You are not required to move

in

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ovatha Easterling" <ovatha88@hotmail.com>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:59 AM
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Middle Earth

> > > > >Ovatha Easterling <ovatha88@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >lockstep with anyone.
> > > > >Ed Mills
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > > > >To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> > > > >
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > > >To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > > >Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >---
> > > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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> > >
> > >****************************************************************
> > > ME Games Ltd
> > > me@middleearthgames.com
> > > www.middleearthgames.com
> > >
> > >UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
> > > Tel 029 2062 5665 12-6.30 Weekdays
> > > Fax 029 2062 5532 24 hours
> > >
> > >US: PO Box 680155, Marietta, GA 30068-0003
> > > Tel 770 579 6813 EST Weekdays
> > > Fax 503 296 2325
> > >****************************************************************
> > > Middle Earth - Legends
> > > Serim Ral - Exile
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------
> > >
> > >
> > >---
> > >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
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>****************************************************************
> ME Games Ltd
> me@middleearthgames.com
> www.middleearthgames.com
>
>UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
> Tel 029 2062 5665 12-6.30 Weekdays
> Fax 029 2062 5532 24 hours
>
>US: PO Box 680155, Marietta, GA 30068-0003
> Tel 770 579 6813 EST Weekdays
> Fax 503 296 2325
>****************************************************************
> Middle Earth - Legends
> Serim Ral - Exile
>
>
> ----------
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.784 / Virus Database: 530 - Release Date: 27/10/04
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>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[Fierein]

You should try being English and living in Scotland.

If you call them Brits they go mad! It isn't helped by Pipers playing on
every sodding street corner creating racial tension all the time.

I personally gave up on all this years ago and whenever football or sport is
happening I support Sweden.. Who by the way stuffed the scots tonight..
Fantastic.. Will have fun at work today with that!

Thomas

···

> PS. Didn't mean to offend you or the English.

RD: Hey Ed, I think if you called all of us in the UK Brits, nobody could
take offence! We're all mongrels.

Richard.

[88_Noldo]

RD: Hey Ed, I think if you called all of us in the UK Brits, nobody could
take offence! We're all mongrels.

Richard.

Richard:
You already know I'm a double mongrel. Er, I mean the proud receiver of hybred vigor. You know, mix a Viking man and French woman together and you get a better thief than either parent.

When you live in the States the differnce between a Scot, Welshman and Englishman is to trivial to notice. Wish I could say that about the Irish. The Orange and Green insist on bringing their family fued over here. Knock it off, for Heaven's sake. this is the New World.
Ed

[Richard_DEVEREUX1]

You should try being English and living in Scotland.

If you call them Brits they go mad! It isn't helped by Pipers playing on
every sodding street corner creating racial tension all the time.

I personally gave up on all this years ago and whenever football or sport

is

happening I support Sweden.. Who by the way stuffed the scots tonight..
Fantastic.. Will have fun at work today with that!

Thomas

RD: Hope they don't lynch you! Maybe they'd be better off lynching Bertie
McVogts

Nothing left for the Tartan army to do now but drink whisky, after all, they
don't have any decent beer up there

Richard.

> > PS. Didn't mean to offend you or the English.
>
> RD: Hey Ed, I think if you called all of us in the UK Brits, nobody

could

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Grey Squirrel" <greysquirrel@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Middle Earth

> take offence! We're all mongrels.
>
> Richard.

Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

[murmur]

mmmmmm, lagavulin!

football? isn`t that that game we taught the world then forgot how to
play?

david murray
proud scot.

From: "Grey Squirrel" <greysquirrel@b...>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Middle Earth

>
> You should try being English and living in Scotland.
>
> If you call them Brits they go mad! It isn't helped by Pipers

playing on

> every sodding street corner creating racial tension all the time.
>
> I personally gave up on all this years ago and whenever football

or sport

is
> happening I support Sweden.. Who by the way stuffed the scots

tonight..

> Fantastic.. Will have fun at work today with that!
>
> Thomas

RD: Hope they don't lynch you! Maybe they'd be better off lynching

Bertie

McVogts

Nothing left for the Tartan army to do now but drink whisky, after

all, they

don't have any decent beer up there

Richard.
>
> > > PS. Didn't mean to offend you or the English.
> >
> > RD: Hey Ed, I think if you called all of us in the UK Brits,

nobody

···

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "richard devereux" <rd@p...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
could
> > take offence! We're all mongrels.
> >
> > Richard.
>
>
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Harlequin_Games1]

>I'm saying try the Stassun-Fields artistic vision at least once. Brad and
>John develped a module, that looks like it is working, that has brought back
>some of the cut-throat chaos of the 'old days'. So, there must be some
>demand for things approaching the original. Make it available at least once
>and see. Sure keep it email, just don't bend over backwards spoon feeding
>the players.

After a week I've not seen anyone come forward asking for this.

Clint

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