Hello - got a dilemma here. Basically it came up a long time ago with names
of characters/camps. What I want to do is come to a clear understanding of
Harlequin's policy on allowing (and not allowance) of names that are either
offensive or potentially offensive. And if potentially offensive, or
actually so. (I cannot judge by my own standards here as what I find
offensive is different to what the standard morality would find so.)
Harlequin's stand point is that if it is potentially offensive then we
should be cautious, and possibly not allow the name. However, with such
censorship it is hard to draw a line that suits everyone. For example I had
to ask a player not to use offensive language in internal mail - something
that I use in my everyday use but understand that the standard morality
would not find acceptable.
Would names from the WWII be considered offensive such as "Hitler"? What
about present day events such as in "Kosov@"? What about religious names?
"Satan" for example I would conisder to be offensive to many so would not
allow. (Would this be acceptable?) What other critiera (if any) should we
consider a ruling on?
I try to keep my own morality out of the decision making process (I often
find that business and ethics are hard to mix!) On the one hand I would
like the game so that it would not be offensive to players, but on the other
hand some offence is hard to avoid when dealing with difficult situations
especially when highlighting the atrocities that have occurred in the world
and continue to do so.
I think that some sort of morale decision on what should be allowed as
otherwise the lowest common denominator will abound. I prefer to leave the
majority of the ruling to you the players on this form though.
Thanks for your input to this difficult subject.
Clint
···
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The answers I'm afraid are Yes, Yes, Yes. On this issue you're not
looking to please a majority, you're looking to please everyone.
Because you might have one player who feels himself a persecuted Jew,
one player who's has compassion for events in Kosovo, and one
Evangelical Christian, you need to exclude all these names.
I think you know the answer to your own question really: If there's any
doubt the answer is no.
Names based on player names are for example what I would consider
doubtful. "Devereux Slayer" was allowed. Now _I_ know that when Kim
Andersen named this character, that it was affectionate abuse, and that
Richard would have chuckled his socks off when he came across it.
Haven't had such a good laugh since I took one of Kim's turns for him
and named one of his assassins "Fluffy" - the others were "Devereux
Slayer", "Destroyer", "Venom" etc. BUT it surprised me that the GM was
confident enough to let a player based name go through.
Regards,
Laurence G. Tilley
http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/
···
Harlequin Games <pbm@harlequingames.com> wrote
Would names from the WWII be considered offensive such as "Hitler"? What
about present day events such as in "Kosov@"? What about religious names?
Hi,
Would names from the WWII be considered offensive such as "Hitler"?
Likely to offend huge swathes of the population (including German
players). Remember the fuss when Flagship had a swastika as part of a
front cover piece of artwork?
What about present day events such as in "Kosovo"?
Sheer bad tatse in my opinion.
What about religious names?
Probably not sensible to allow such things.
I always try to keep names to a sensible genre suggested by the
position. For instance Dwarven names are easy (Fili, Kili, Thorin,
Balin, Torin etc)
Northmen, Eothraim and Woodmen names are sort of Saxon/Norse in origin.
And most otther nations are pretty straightforward if you've read the
books. If not, then I would hope playing the game would inspire you to
do so!
I try to keep my own morality out of the decision making process (I
often find that business and ethics are hard to mix!)
In my experience the term "business and ethics" is often an oxymoron.
On the whole though I would personally suggest you use your own personal
judgement and by all means base decisions on your own morality. Along
with the vast majority of PBM-ers I have a tendancy to trust my GM. If
he or she says something is or is not allowed in a game then I will
abide by those rules.
Colin.
>Would names from the WWII be considered offensive such as "Hitler"? What
>about present day events such as in "Kosov@"? What about religious
names?
The answers I'm afraid are Yes, Yes, Yes. On this issue you're not
looking to please a majority, you're looking to please everyone.
Because you might have one player who feels himself a persecuted Jew,
one player who's has compassion for events in Kosovo, and one
Evangelical Christian, you need to exclude all these names.
I think you know the answer to your own question really: If there's any
doubt the answer is no.
Names based on player names are for example what I would consider
doubtful. "Devereux Slayer" was allowed. Now _I_ know that when Kim
Andersen named this character, that it was affectionate abuse, and that
Richard would have chuckled his socks off when he came across it.
Haven't had such a good laugh since I took one of Kim's turns for him
and named one of his assassins "Fluffy" - the others were "Devereux
Slayer", "Destroyer", "Venom" etc. BUT it surprised me that the GM was
confident enough to let a player based name go through.
Yes these might come under personally offensive. If I had noticed then
Devereux slayer would have been interecepted. if the player had given
permisssion then that would have been fine. On the one hand I am aware of
how much trouble changing or disallowing names is and on the other hand I
know that they do offend some players. So where to draw the line is my
serious question? The examples I gave above are serious ones.
Clint
Sleepy, Dopey, Grumpy, Doc.
Regards,
Laurence G. Tilley
http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/
···
ColinForbes <mearth@suilven.demon.co.uk> wrote
For instance Dwarven names are easy (Fili, Kili, Thorin,
Balin, Torin etc)
Hi,
> Would names from the WWII be considered offensive such as "Hitler"?
Likely to offend huge swathes of the population (including German
players). Remember the fuss when Flagship had a swastika as part of a
front cover piece of artwork?
> What about present day events such as in "Kosovo"?
Sheer bad tatse in my opinion.
> What about religious names?
Probably not sensible to allow such things.
I always try to keep names to a sensible genre suggested by the
position. For instance Dwarven names are easy (Fili, Kili, Thorin,
Balin, Torin etc)
Northmen, Eothraim and Woodmen names are sort of Saxon/Norse in origin.
And most otther nations are pretty straightforward if you've read the
books. If not, then I would hope playing the game would inspire you to
do so!
> I try to keep my own morality out of the decision making process (I
> often find that business and ethics are hard to mix!)
In my experience the term "business and ethics" is often an oxymoron.
On the whole though I would personally suggest you use your own personal
judgement and by all means base decisions on your own morality. Along
with the vast majority of PBM-ers I have a tendancy to trust my GM. If
he or she says something is or is not allowed in a game then I will
abide by those rules.
Colin.
so if you lived in a world of oppression you would not make a fuss,would
not speak out as the inocent are murdered.
0% OFF food!
···
----- Original Message -----
From: ColinForbes <mearth@suilven.demon.co.uk>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Name Game?
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Shaun Brown wrote:
so if you lived in a world of oppression you would not make a
fuss,would not speak out as the inocent are murdered.
Huh? How does calling a character Kosovo or Hitler help? If you want to
speak out in this world of oppression then do something practical - for
instance join Amnesty. I can give you the address if you like - I've
been a member for about 15 years.
Colin.
> so if you lived in a world of oppression you would not make a
fuss,would
not speak out as the inocent are murdered.
This is going into some political thing here. For those who know me they
would be aware of my politics and activities outside of PBM but I generally
try to steer clear of such things as it only murkies the waters. For
everyone else if they want to discuss such things then that is okay but
please be careful as email is one of the worst such mediums for such
discussions.
Clint
Shaun Brown wrote:
> so if you lived in a world of oppression you would not make a
> fuss,would not speak out as the inocent are murdered.
Huh? How does calling a character Kosovo or Hitler help? If you
want to
speak out in this world of oppression then do something practical -
for
instance join Amnesty. I can give you the address if you like - I've
been a member for about 15 years.
Colin.
As in all things it is open to miss reading of the context,everybody
has a mind that gives us choices, what we do is what makes us
fundermentaly good or evil, but we should never limit the choices
open befor us
shaun
P.S
Yep and Amnesty int` are doing a great job as I watch the news
(open to your own interpretation)
···
--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, ColinForbes <mearth@s...> wrote:
Shaun Brown wrote:
> so if you lived in a world of oppression you would not make a
> fuss,would not speak out as the inocent are murdered.
Huh? How does calling a character Kosovo or Hitler help? If you
want to
speak out in this world of oppression then do something practical -
for
instance join Amnesty. I can give you the address if you like - I've
been a member for about 15 years.
Colin.
As in all things it is open to miss reading of the context,everybody
has a mind that gives us choices, what we do is what makes us
fundermentaly good or evil, but we should never limit the choices
open befor us
shaun
P.S
Yep and Amnesty int` are doing a great job as I watch the news
(open to your own interpretation)
···
--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, ColinForbes <mearth@s...> wrote:
Social concern is part of my reason for running a PBM firm - it helps you
get rid of all those nasty aggressive tendencies without actually killing
anyone!
As for the innocent described below cf with names of characters - some are
offensive just because they bring up the feelings associated with the act
that they did. Such as the holocaust etc. Now with that in mind these
feelings are offensive to some people so the theory is that the GM has to be
cautious about what is allowed and what is not due to the feelings this
brings up.
For example a rape evokes feeling of disgust so having a name like "Jack the
Ripper" might bring back such feelings for a rape victim or someone who
knows such a person. Etc. On the one hand drawing attention to the
situation is good but I am not 100% sure that this is the medium in which to
do so. As Colin mentions join a pressure group or something like that..
There are many around.
The names that are just intended to be offensive are just that and should
not be allowed IMHO.
I generally want to play in a game where although my mind is stretched that
the real world politics are not a part of in lots of ways. I do enough of
those such things in my "real" life that I like the difference. I
understand that others want different things from the games we play so I am
trying to steer a middle ground where some rules are made and some leniency
is also allowed.
Clint as player and GM.
PS I think I am so close to breaking my golden rule about politics and
work... 
Must keep my mouth shut, must keep my mouth shut...
argghhhhhhhhhhh....
···
Shaun Brown wrote:
> so if you lived in a world of oppression you would not make a
> fuss,would not speak out as the inocent are murdered.
Huh? How does calling a character Kosovo or Hitler help? If you want to
speak out in this world of oppression then do something practical - for
instance join Amnesty. I can give you the address if you like - I've
been a member for about 15 years.
Colin.
Ahh back again where we started last year and the year before and.....
Well I am happy that we have these questions laid out in a wider forum, hopefully easing the burden from the shoulders of our GM's (I doubt it does, but I hope) and giving everyone (in this group) a possibility to be heard (lots of new players barking at the old tree, good).
Harlequin's stand point is that if it is potentially offensive then we
should be cautious, and possibly not allow the name. However, with such
censorship it is hard to draw a line that suits everyone. For example I had
to ask a player not to use offensive language in internal mail - something
that I use in my everyday use but understand that the standard morality
would not find acceptable.
I do support a ban of offensive language when the letter is from player A to player B, aiming at the player and not his characters. But if the Cloud Lord player sends a message to the Noldo player saying "Oy Elrond I will poison Your complete houshold. Yours in darkness Ji Indur" I think it is completely within the spirit of the game and should not be stopped.
Would names from the WWII be considered offensive such as "Hitler"? What
about present day events such as in "Kosov@"? What about religious names?
"Satan" for example I would conisder to be offensive to many so would not
allow. (Would this be acceptable?) What other critiera (if any) should we
consider a ruling on?
There is a couple of guys from WWII that I think is potential offensive. Hitler is one and Himler is another, there is after all a bunch of German players and others too that may feel, that those names is to close in history to be good. Personally I think those names are stupid and would love to kill Hitler or Himler (especially with Morwen or Goldwine Frec).
Religious names?
Well, one could use Lucifer instead of satan, showing atleast a minor knowledge of his naming theme. But i would not ban those names. And what is Sauron if not a fallen angel like Lucifer and Mammon?
Using player names?
Grow up. We may not love each other but a minimum of is to be expected in our naming of characters (go kill his character instead if you cannot leave old grudges behind).
Henning Rindbaek
···
----- Original Message -----
From: Harlequin Games <pbm@harlequingames.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 1:26 AM
