After Bofa we usually get players into the 1650 game. I’ve been replying to a player and wondered if you feel this is roughly accurate?
Arthedain is generally good in that is has a few options of development, some items, and although active is not overtly active. Ditto the Dwarves and Cardolan (in descending order). The other FPs are more involved. With the NW you need to be active diplomatically - in most games Rhudaur goes DS (Duns FP) so working on them is very important.
For DS your nations are more fragile but characterwise more developed. So Quiet A, Long Rider are interesting nations in a similar vein to the Freeps mentioned. 16 is good but very fragile as it can come under early attack and you need to be proactive with your start armies (ideally within the framework of the team). I’d generally not advise any of the others - they’re either the key to a DS or FP victory or very difficult to play if you’re newly back to the game (maybe Blind S is okay but generally your mages are needed for Item collection/collating, FK is on the front line so dangerous but relatively “simple” [it can be played very much at a higher level].)
I’d rate FK higher as a “newbie” nation. FK/QA/LR IMO. Simple to learn how to play and lots of exciting bloodshed… Yes, I appreciate that “if the others died, Mordor wouldn’t necessarily…” but the others inherently more subtle…
Clint,
I think DW is not so easy to “do the right thing” for a newbie. Everything is so spread out at game-in, that I’d take it off your list. I like AR, CA as newbie FP positions.
on DS side, all nations are potentially fragile and potentially critical (depending on area of FP focus), though I agree in a 10-10-5 game that QA is definitely the best DS nation for a newbie, with BS/LR both as second choices (the team needs both to do the right thing…)
Well when I was playing 1650 (which was some time ago) on the FP side I used to see alot of new players being given the Eothraim and Northmen as they were usually not picked by experienced players. I’d definitely recommend Arthedain then Cardolan on the FP side.
On the DS side the FK is definitely one I’d suggest. It is very monofocussed and would give the new player a good into to the DS setup. The QA can get taken out easily, but with a little advice should survive. Personally I always liked the Dog Lord. Its a quite survivable position and not that complex.
DS
I would rate the FK at the #1 newbie position on any side, it is monofocused and more importantly, everyone WILL help you. I’d not recommend the IK as it is a single MT nation on the front line. The QA requires a good amount of diplomacy so I would not rate it as high as the FK, but it is a nice newbie nation. So FK and QA are good for newbies IMO on the dark side.
The LR is also pretty nice, especially if Khand goes dark.
FP
I would agree that Cardolan is a great newbie position, I would place it infront of Arthedain because it is again not a single MT nation, but both are definately the easier of the FP nations. Dw are really spread out.
As far as difficulty I would rate the nations in the following order (assuming the general split of Rhudaur, Corsairs and Khand go dark, Dunlend and Harad go Free. (harad and corsair could swap without much alteration to my listing).
Of curse, hardness changes with neutral split.
Easiest to hardest.
Easy
1 FK
2 Cardolan
3 Arthedain
4 Dunlend
5 Khand
6 QA
7 LR
8 Dw
9 Cloud Lord
10 Noldo
Medium
11 BS
12 Corsairs
13 Dark L’s
14 Dog Lord
15 South Gondor
16 IK
17 Sinda
18 Harad
Hard
19 WK
20 NG
21 Woodmen
22 Eothraim
23 Dragon Lord
24 Northmen
25 Rhudaur
I would not allow any newbie in their first full 1650 game to take a neutral position.
For DS… I think the following 3 nations offer a great start
FiK… lots of army action, chance to develop emmies
LoR… lots of army action, chance to develop agents
DoL… lots of army action, chance to develop variety
For FP… I think the following 3 nations offer a great start
Art… lots of army action, chance to develop variety
Sin… lots of army action, some navy, agent/mage development
Nor… lots of army action, chance to develop emmies
In my opinion, there aren’t really any useless nations on each side, each has its part to play and if played well can make a big difference.
The nations I’ve picked above to me can be played less well without killing the game, but are involved in action from the start, so a new player can get a real taste of 1650 opening gambits…
Remember, there will hopefully be some experienced players looking to offer support and advice on orders etc etc.
I also picked nations that have partners who need them to perform, so for eg its in Car’s interest to train/teach/mentor/etc Art… same for Woo and Sin etc…
I’d take the Dwarves firmly off the Newbie list. They just have too many options and are active in too many theatres. Can a newbie handle being active in Rhun, the Iron Hills, Mirkwood, and ANgmar all at the same time? Or the coordination and planning required to run an empire that streteches from Rhun to the Grey Havens?
I actually think the Woodmen are a decent first go, they are single theatre, and, while more fragile than the rest of the FP, are not horribly threatened by the DS and also have a built in best buddy/mentor in the SInda (yes he wants to see you suceed!).
Id leave the QA off as well, the diplomacy is the challenge there and the action can be too little to keep a newbie interested (we do want them to play again, right?)
For non-critical nations, the Blind SOrcerer fits the bill. The DS have so many better mages that this really isnt critical (Dragon Lord is actually the best mage nation once you think artifacts…)
Ergo my list is:
Free: Arthy, Cardo, Woodie
Dark: Fire King, Dog Lord, Blind Sorcerer
